Dallas Trans Person Beating Suspect Arrested

[Ana the Ist]

No doubt many of you saw or heard about the awful beating of a trans person in Dallas recently. Good news, one of the suspects has been arrested....

Man Arrested in Beating of Transgender Woman At Dallas Apartment Complex

Police say Edward Thomas, 29, was involved in a minor traffic accident with Muhlaysia Booker between 5 and 6 p.m. Friday in the parking lot of Royal Crest Apartments, 3558 Wilhurt Ave. The two argued about the accident, and Thomas began beating Booker, police said. Others joined in the beating, using homophobic slurs.

Sadly, violence against the trans community is normally higher than that of the non-trans community. This incident is notable however, for a few reasons...

1. It's not only very public and in broad daylight, but was uploaded to Facebook and quickly went viral.
2. It was started by a very minor traffic accident, one that the victim offered to resolve with a few hundred dollars.
3. The community joined in the beating. While the suspect arrested seems to be the one to begin the assault, many others completely unrelated to the accident began kicking and punching the victim while they were down on the ground and helpless while shouting homophobic slurs.

Thoughts? Any idea why this community would join in on the violent assault of a trans person? Should this be considered a hate crime?

 

[Anthony2019]

Whilst not wishing to start a debate on the ethics of transgenderism, I will say that I have a very close friend who is trans and have seen some of the hostility and ridicule she has had to suffer on a day to day basis from people who don't even know her. I am not only humbled by her strength and determination in what she has had to endure from others, but the kindness she shows to all people.

Violence against any individual or community should never be tolerated.

 

[Occams Barber]

No doubt many of you saw or heard about the awful beating of a trans person in Dallas recently. Good news, one of the suspects has been arrested....

Man Arrested in Beating of Transgender Woman At Dallas Apartment Complex



Sadly, violence against the trans community is normally higher than that of the non-trans community. This incident is notable however, for a few reasons...

1. It's not only very public and in broad daylight, but was uploaded to Facebook and quickly went viral.
2. It was started by a very minor traffic accident, one that the victim offered to resolve with a few hundred dollars.
3. The community joined in the beating. While the suspect arrested seems to be the one to begin the assault, many others completely unrelated to the accident began kicking and punching the victim while they were down on the ground and helpless while shouting homophobic slurs.

Thoughts? Any idea why this community would join in on the violent assault of a trans person? Should this be considered a hate crime?

Can we assume it was just another bunch of Christians exercising their right to religious freedom?
OB

 

[Ana the Ist]

Can we assume it was just another bunch of Christians exercising their right to religious freedom?
OB

I doubt there were any passages of Leviticus being quoted during the assault.

 

[DW1980]

No doubt many of you saw or heard about the awful beating of a trans person in Dallas recently. Good news, one of the suspects has been arrested....

Man Arrested in Beating of Transgender Woman At Dallas Apartment Complex



Sadly, violence against the trans community is normally higher than that of the non-trans community. This incident is notable however, for a few reasons...

1. It's not only very public and in broad daylight, but was uploaded to Facebook and quickly went viral.
2. It was started by a very minor traffic accident, one that the victim offered to resolve with a few hundred dollars.
3. The community joined in the beating. While the suspect arrested seems to be the one to begin the assault, many others completely unrelated to the accident began kicking and punching the victim while they were down on the ground and helpless while shouting homophobic slurs.

Thoughts? Any idea why this community would join in on the violent assault of a trans person? Should this be considered a hate crime?

I think we should agree that violence is inexcusable, regardless of the circumstances.

Is it a hate crime? That's tricky - it's usually defined as a crime committed because of a persons race, religion, sexuality etc. Given that there were homophobic slurs shouted then that would lend support to this being a hate crime. :-(

 

[Chesterton]

2. It was started by a very minor traffic accident, one that the victim offered to resolve with a few hundred dollars.

I couldn't read what you're referring to, but I just watched a TV news report that suggests that after the accident he may have been taunting a crowd, and the video seems to show that.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I couldn't read what you're referring to, but I just watched a TV news report that suggests that after the accident he may have been taunting a crowd, and the video seems to show that.

Taunting a crowd? How so?

 

[grasping the after wind]

No doubt many of you saw or heard about the awful beating of a trans person in Dallas recently. Good news, one of the suspects has been arrested....

Man Arrested in Beating of Transgender Woman At Dallas Apartment Complex



Sadly, violence against the trans community is normally higher than that of the non-trans community. This incident is notable however, for a few reasons...

1. It's not only very public and in broad daylight, but was uploaded to Facebook and quickly went viral.
2. It was started by a very minor traffic accident, one that the victim offered to resolve with a few hundred dollars.
3. The community joined in the beating. While the suspect arrested seems to be the one to begin the assault, many others completely unrelated to the accident began kicking and punching the victim while they were down on the ground and helpless while shouting homophobic slurs.

Thoughts? Any idea why this community would join in on the violent assault of a trans person? Should this be considered a hate crime?

Everyone that participated in this should be arrested and charged appropriately. If there are hate crime laws then this would certainly seem to be a case where that would apply.

 

[Chesterton]

Taunting a crowd? How so?

You'd have to see for yourself, but I don't want to link the violent video here. It was on local Eyewitness News in Dallas.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You'd have to see for yourself, but I don't want to link the violent video here. It was on local Eyewitness News in Dallas.

I did watch the video yesterday...but quite honestly, I don't remember any taunting. I'll try and watch it again later.

 

[DW1980]

I couldn't read what you're referring to, but I just watched a TV news report that suggests that after the accident he may have been taunting a crowd, and the video seems to show that.

That would still not justify an assault and homophobic slurs - they should still be arrested and charged.

 

[Chesterton]

That would still not justify an assault and homophobic slurs - they should still be arrested and charged.

I completely agree.

 

[dgiharris]

3. The community joined in the beating. While the suspect arrested seems to be the one to begin the assault, many others completely unrelated to the accident began kicking and punching the victim while they were down on the ground and helpless while shouting homophobic slurs.

Thoughts? Any idea why this community would join in on the violent assault of a trans person? Should this be considered a hate crime?

Well that same community pulled her out of it, ie the women who surrounded her and came to her aid... Not trying to split hairs but I don't like the sentiment that "The entire community" was for this beating. I'm from that community and the vast majority of us are appalled.

but to answer the questions and sentiment of this thread. Every single person involved in hitting her needs to be arrested and charged with a hate crime to the full extent of the law. Period.

This is EXACTLY what hate crime laws were made for, exactly this situation.
Hate crime laws were made to serve as a deterrent and they also reflect the will of the people. I do not wish to derail the thread about the efficacy and legitimacy of hate crime laws. It is a moot point because those laws exist.

And this is why those laws exist.

Whoever hit that trans woman with a brick should be charged with attempted murder.
Everyone else who even laid a harmful finger on her should be charged with the most severe crime and thrown in jail very publicly and for a very long time.

Lastly, I come to my judgement and arguments based on what I saw. I don't need to know what happened "before" the beating to know that that beating was wrong. Based on the "limited" facts I have at my disposal and what I see with my own two eyes and my life experience I can easily conclude with a high degree of confidence that this was about as wrong as something can get. I don't have a sliding scale I whip out to fit various situations. I use the same logic and reason for all situations. And in this case, I wish every single person who laid a finger on her to spend YEARS in jail thinking about what they did.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well that same community pulled her out of it, ie the women who surrounded her and came to her aid... Not trying to split hairs but I don't like the sentiment that "The entire community" was for this beating. I'm from that community and the vast majority of us are appalled.

You're from that area of Dallas?

Sorry, I didn't mean "the entire community"....just people nearby who weren't involved in the accident.

but to answer the questions and sentiment of this thread. Every single person involved in hitting her needs to be arrested and charged with a hate crime to the full extent of the law. Period.

This is EXACTLY what hate crime laws were made for, exactly this situation.

Hate crime laws were made to serve as a deterrent and they also reflect the will of the people. I do not wish to derail the thread about the efficacy and legitimacy of hate crime laws. It is a moot point because those laws exist.

And this is why those laws exist.

Whoever hit that trans woman with a brick should be charged with attempted murder.
Everyone else who even laid a harmful finger on her should be charged with the most severe crime and thrown in jail very publicly and for a very long time.

Lastly, I come to my judgement and arguments based on what I saw. I don't need to know what happened "before" the beating to know that that beating was wrong. Based on the "limited" facts I have at my disposal and what I see with my own two eyes and my life experience I can easily conclude with a high degree of confidence that this was about as wrong as something can get. I don't have a sliding scale I whip out to fit various situations. I use the same logic and reason for all situations. And in this case, I wish every single person who laid a finger on her to spend YEARS in jail thinking about what they did.

Pretty severe.

 

[Chesterton]

but to answer the questions and sentiment of this thread. Every single person involved in hitting her needs to be arrested and charged with a hate crime to the full extent of the law. Period.

Based on what exactly? The locals have called in the FBI to help determine if it was a "hate crime". What do you know that they don't?

 

[dgiharris]

You're from that area of Dallas?

Sorry, I didn't mean "the entire community"....just people nearby who weren't involved in the accident.



Pretty severe.

Based on what exactly? The locals have called in the FBI to help determine if it was a "hate crime". What do you know that they don't?

You have to take a step back and honestly ask yourself what is the purpose of law?

I know, that sounds asinine and condescending but it is my belief that the majority of this country to include many in law enforcement do not have a well thought out understanding of what law is and/or the purpose of law?

Is law merely a set of arbitrary rules that we follow as a society?

Or are laws a moral reflection of a society?

What about order and the social contract? Are laws merely a means of us collectively maintaining the social contract we have with one another...

Not to derail into an esoteric discussion of law and morality, but I am of the firm belief that laws both reflect the morality of the populace as well as ensure that "The Social Contract" we all inherently fall under is maintained.

Given that we are "supposed" to be a country that prides itself on Freedom and Liberty... the Law needs to serve a Utilitarian Function, the law needs to enable a society that leads to the maximization of Happiness while simultaneously balancing Security vs. Freedom.

A mob attacking a citizen is something that simply cannot be tolerated. That is an action that tears at the very fabric of The Social Contract we all adhere to.

The truth is, the only reason why we are not a pack of apes running around raping and pillaging one another is because of the Social Contract. Contrary to Popular belief, it is not because of Law Enforcement. Laws and Law Enforcement are very similar to fiat currency-- Both only work because we the people have bought into a group delusion. Laws much like fiat currency are just a made up fiction that we all agree to adhere to. What I'm getting at is that the glue that holds our society together is extremely fragile. You can't have mobs attacking citizens without consequence. It is imperative in order to maintain The Social Contract that actions that threaten the Social Contract be dealt with as harshly as possible in a way that maximizes deterrence.

 

[Chesterton]

You have to take a step back and honestly ask yourself what is the purpose of law?

[snip]

Okay. I pretty much agree with all of that, but it's not really responsive to what I asked.

 

[dgiharris]

Based on what exactly? The locals have called in the FBI to help determine if it was a "hate crime". What do you know that they don't?

I am more than comfortable using whatever means the law affords to punish any crime that has a high probability of undermining the entire fabric of our society.

You asked "Based on what exactly?" Well, I'm telling you. Not all crimes are created equal. Some crimes are particularly dangerous to society as a whole. And a mob beating up a citizen is one of those crimes. So, when something like this occurs, the State should use whatever means it can to ratchet up the punishment to the maximum and then advertise that to all citizens to help serve as a deterrent.

In this case, there are a special set of laws called "hate crimes". This crime can be easily fitted underneath that umbrella. I will go so far as to say it doesn't even need to be true.

And the State does this all the time BTW. Some officer "fears for his life" and shoots an unarmed citizen that "might" have "possibly" been reaching for a gun and the Law is more than comfortable clearing said officer of wrong doing. What I'm asking for should be about a million times less offensive to our delicate sensibilities than that. There is no defense for a mob beating a citizen in this sort of manner over this sort of incident.

 

[Chesterton]

So, when something like this occurs, the State should use whatever means it can to ratchet up the punishment to the maximum and then advertise that to all citizens to help serve as a deterrent.

There are minimum and maximum punishments for most any given crime. You don't charge someone with something they didn't do just to increase the punishment for something they did do.

I will go so far as to say it doesn't even need to be true.

That's way too far. Off the rails far. Should these folks in Dallas be charged with bankrobbery and arson, too? Just so they can receive more punishment?

 

[dgiharris]

That's way too far. Off the rails far. Should these folks in Dallas be charged with bankrobbery and arson, too? Just so they can receive more punishment?

it is not off the rails too far.

The law does what I am advocating all the time. I don't know why you are turning a blind eye to it.

For instance, lets say I ask you to drive me to the bank. You drive me to the bank, I run into the bank, rob it, jump in the car and tell you to drive away. You drive away and guess what, you are charged with the bank robbery even though all you did was "drive".

It is not "off the rails" to charge someone for a hate crime when they assault someone in a manner that is extreme. I will go so far as to say that whenever ANY MOB attacks ANY PERSON that said mob should be charge with a hate crime.

I have no idea why you seem intent to bend over backwards to support people who have acted in a way that threatens civilized society.

The law "stretches" all the time in its best interest. WHen I advocate stretching the law I do so with no pretense and my eyes wide open with full awareness for what I am advocating for as well as making sure it adheres to my morality and logical arguments.

Lastly, "the law" when applied to situations like this is very subjective. The State has a fair amount of leeway in applying its subjectivity. For instance, the State is very lenient with law enforcement whenever law enforcement kills innocent citizens. One case in particular comes to mind, Law Enforcement was serving a "No Knock" warrant knowing full well the person they were going after had a family. Law Enforcement proceed to storm the castle, they threw in a flash bang grenade through the window, the grenade landed into the baby's crib, maiming/blinding that baby for life (3rd degree burns to the eyes and face) and the person wasn't even home. Law Enforcement was never charged, just a "whoopsies our bad..."

My point is that given the leeway that our law demonstrates and exercises all the time, what I am advocating for is peanuts compared to what the law already does and allows. Not to mention that I do think it was a hate crime...

This can "easily" be thought of as a hate crime, doesn't take any stretching at all. Or put another way, what other logical reasons are there for a mob attacking a citizen in this manner? Which reasons have the highest probabilty of being true?