Notre Dame cathedral in Paris on fire

[rambot]

It's strange to me reading the "it's just a building" responses. Got a couple in my FB feed too.

Not every building is "just a building".

If my house burnt down, that would be tragic, if only to me and my family. But still, more than just a building.

If Fort Edmonton burnt down, (open air museum of early Edmonto nwhere I live) I'd be a bit bummed with that too; even though it's all replica and rebuild.

If a church with a 1000 year history burns down, that's a lot lost there....

 

[Pommer]

One thing that we can say about these attacks on churches is that they are characterised by iconoclastic fury. That is something one usually associates with Protestants in the Christian world, so destroying stautues of saints and burning down cathedrals for the worship of Mary would fit them well. Except in FRance there are not that many Protestants and the ones I have met are not like that.

So that leaves two main groups - atheistic feminist types who attack the church as a symbol of patriarchial authority (which your article mentioned) and Muslims who also have an iconoclastic fury about icons, paintings and statues and regard them as idolatrous.

How’s about we await the cause of the blaze without casting aspersions?

 

[RickardoHolmes]

I am so saddened by this tragedy. As one person said, "Paris without Notre Dame is not Paris. "
MY son is really upset as well. Like myself, he has an aesthetic streak and the damage or loss of something so beautiful is beyond devastating.

 

[Zoii]

Just absolute tragic. Hopefully those in the cathedral have gotten out safely.

Live updates: Fire at Notre Dame - CNN
Massive fire breaks out in Notre Dame cathedral in Paris

Such a loss to world heritage

 

[Zoii]

One thing that we can say about these attacks on churches is that they are characterised by iconoclastic fury. That is something one usually associates with Protestants in the Christian world, so destroying stautues of saints and burning down cathedrals for the worship of Mary would fit them well. Except in FRance there are not that many Protestants and the ones I have met are not like that.

So that leaves two main groups - atheistic feminist types who attack the church as a symbol of patriarchial authority (which your article mentioned) and Muslims who also have an iconoclastic fury about icons, paintings and statues and regard them as idolatrous.

Thats such a moronic statement to make.
Perhaps you need to keep abreast of information before allowing you lips to flap - It appears the renovation works may be the cause but at this point its too early to tell..... still dont let me stop your irrational rant.

 

[Zoii]

I'm curious - was there no fire-suppression eg sprinklers installed? I would have thought a building admitting so many people would have mandatorily had such equipment.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I'm curious - was there no fire-suppression eg sprinklers installed? I would have thought a building admitting so many people would have mandatorily had such equipment.

Well, it's the middle of the month. Maybe one of the workers got paid. And got so excited. they just threw down their cigarettes and left their power tools on. Which ultimately overheated sparked the fire and caused the wooden scaffolding? 2. Start on fire??? Or something like that.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Thats such a moronic statement to make.
Perhaps you need to keep abreast of information before allowing you lips to flap - It appears the renovation works may be the cause but at this point its too early to tell..... still dont let me stop your irrational rant.

Well, he may have been responding to a link I supply. It is the case that this "accident happens to have occurred in the context of a long string. Of non accidental. Incidents of vandalism. Someone else posted the link originally on Twitter and I just thought I'd share. It was news to me, I had no idea there had been a recent string of attacks on churches throughout France. Just sharing something important if tangentially related

 

[mindlight]

How’s about we await the cause of the blaze without casting aspersions?

This post was not a response to events in Notre Dame but rather to the general trend of attacks against churches and especially the symbols they house in France. The physical cause of the Paris fire looks like builders negligence but has yet to be established. It is the spiritual cause that led to the physical. The spiritual indifference of the French and its government meant that the project was chronically underfunded and it looks like short cuts were taken with basic health and safety requirements. It is a sad contrast to the days when France believed in the God this art and these symbols reached for. Without God of course they are just idols and perhaps the iconoclastic fury of those flames was appropriate.

 

[Zoii]

I was referring to a particular group of feminists who do not believe in God and who regard many of the symbols employed by the Catholic church as symbols of a patriarchy they believe should be overthrown. Even within this group of course there is a diversity with some advocating radical violence and others not, some as absolute nihilists on all organised religions but happy to embrace witchcraft

What garbage. There's zero evidence of feminism involved in the attacks on these churches. There is equally a belief that Catholic Churches were attacked in response to the rampant historical paedophilia continuing to be uncovered - The fact is no-one knows why there was a spate of attacks on French Catholic churches regardless of what people are espousing.

You should your research your facts and stop spreading anti-[insert rant dislike]

The spiritual indifference of the French and its government meant that the project was chronically underfunded and it looks like short cuts were taken with basic health and safety requirements.

The Notredame is owned by the state NOT the church and thus it will direct funds toward monuments according to its funding priorities like any responsible government should.

The spiritual indifference of the French

What has the religious status trends across France got to do with this fire

perhaps the iconoclastic fury of those flames was appropriate.

... oh wait - Lets see your trying to say that the French deserved this and that a fire was appropriate because you have judged the french wanting spiritually.

Some how you believe that is a worthy christian statement.

 

[mindlight]

What garbage. There's zero evidence of feminism involved in the attacks on these churches. There is equally a belief that Catholic Churches were attacked in response to the rampant historical paedophilia continuing to be uncovered - The fact is no-one knows why there was a spate of attacks on French Catholic churches regardless of what people are espousing.

You should your research your facts and stop spreading anti-[insert rant dislike]

When a person reads through excrement coated glasses that might distort their answers. I proposed 3 groups known for iconoclastic tendencies who might have been interested in attacking Catholic churches: Protestant ( of whom there are not enough and definitely not enough angry ones in France), feminists ( who as the post to which I am responding might be suggested to demonstrate get angry at the drop of a hat) and Muslims for whom the icons and art are often seen as idolatrous.

The Notredame is owned by the state NOT the church and thus it will direct funds toward monuments according to its funding priorities like any responsible government should.

The sacrifices and willingness to fund a thing of beauty for the glory of God were missing here.

What has the religious status trends across France got to do with this fire

... oh wait - Lets see your trying to say that the French deserved this and that a fire was appropriate because you have judged the french wanting spiritually.

Some how you believe that is a worthy christian statement.

There is a strong connection between the spiritual indifference of the French and the lack of funding for this project which may have contributed to short cuts being taken with secure practices and resulted in the fire itself

 

[Erik Nelson]

Notre Dame
Maurice Prendergast, 1907

 

[Erik Nelson]

Notre Dame Cathedral, Paris
Childe Hassam, 1888

 

[Erik Nelson]

The bravery of firemen and the genius of vaulted ceilings saved Notre Dame. The stone probably prevented most of the fire from entering the interior. Only the outer timber could burn.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I fear one must be very careful with the word "atheist". I fear that the term atheist is generally quite Deceptive. In theory, Atheists would reject all gods, but in practice. only focused against the god of Christianity. Not necessarily irreligious completely. Or. Maybe, better to say "spiritual". I may be confused on this, but that's the way it looks to me.

Nonsense. I disbelieve in all gods equally, I just debate more with Christians as I tend to be around them a lot more, and their beliefs impact the society far more than any other group.

If I lived in India, I'd be far more interested in arguing Hinduism

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

I'm curious - was there no fire-suppression eg sprinklers installed? I would have thought a building admitting so many people would have mandatorily had such equipment.

It's a UNESCO World Heritage Site and a Monument Historique (equivalent to the Australian National Heritage List) - after having seen the sheer bureaucratic nightmare of somewhere I worked trying to comply with accessibility laws while retaining their (frankly dangerous to the able-bodied) equivalently listed 150-year-old front staircase I'm not at all surprised that there wasn't.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

How’s about we await the cause of the blaze without casting aspersions?

But then we'd have to admit that we don't know, and in not knowing we wouldn't be able to use it as a one-size-beats-all stick for whichever out-group the conspiracy theorists favour this week.

 

[Zoii]

There is a strong connection between the spiritual indifference of the French and the lack of funding for this project which may have contributed to short cuts being taken with secure practices and resulted in the fire itsel

Im sure French Christians [or whatever religion they may belong to] would reject that they are indifferent spiritually.

What evidence do you have that
a) the restoration was poorly funded
b) that short cuts were taken
c) that the country has a spiritual indifference that resulting in under funding

You know most people are simply saddened by the damage to the church, but being wisely restrained as to its cause - WHY? - Because no-one knows the cause at this stage?

Still - a notorious criminal turned author was quoted as saying 'never let facts get in the way of a good story'.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Rebuilding Notre Dame will be costly. These billionaires have already donated $700 million

 

[friendl]

Woman claims she can spot silhouette of Jesus Christ in Notre Dame cathedral flames

Link