Women in Leadership

[Ttalkkugjil]

The idea that Scripture can be trumped at any time by a claim that "the Holy Spirit has changed his mind" troubles me. Just sayin'

She who inspired Scripture will never go against said Scripture.

 

[Aviela]

I did not say anything about intellectual attributes. I only hypothesized regarding spiritual attributes. In sum, those attributes cannot be ruled out.

If we look to the spiritual as a reflection of the physical. It is obvious that men are physically stronger than women. If women were as strong as men are physically, statistically there would be at least 25 women winning Superbowl quarterbacks. There aren't.

If the spiritual is a reflection of the physical, then men are spiritually stronger than women. We cannot rule that out. It may well be that it takes that additional spiritual strength to be a priest.

If I take this post at face value, you seem to be equating physical attributes with spiritual attributes and and I see those as two separate issues.

 

[Aviela]

The idea that Scripture can be trumped at any time by a claim that "the Holy Spirit has changed his mind" troubles me. Just sayin'

I never at any point said the Holy Spirit changed it's mind. I said that maybe at times we as christians have misinterpreted scripture and need to reconsider certain views.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

I never at any point said the Holy Spirit changed it's mind. I said that maybe at time we as christians have misinterpreted scripture and need to reconsider certain views.

"It's?"

 

[Aviela]

"It's?"

By it's I was inferring God is bigger than us mere humans. It wasn't a gender 'thing'.

 

[Albion]

I never at any point said the Holy Spirit changed it's mind. I said that maybe at times we as christians have misinterpreted scripture and need to reconsider certain views.

No, you did not. I was thinking there of the ace-in-the-hole argument that the advocates of womens ordination had to rely upon in the debates that took place in one of our most historic denominations. It seems stunning to me to just push Scripture aside like that, but if Scripture was to be the deciding factor in the outcome of that vote, there would have been almost nothing for those people to turn to in order to make their case.

 

[trophy33]

By it's I was inferring God is bigger than us mere humans. It wasn't a gender 'thing'.

God said about himself that He is Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, everything male gender.

This is in perfect agreement with verses about women being submitted.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

By it's I was inferring God is bigger than us mere humans. It wasn't a gender 'thing'.

God is a personal being though, and hence a personal pronoun should be used for her.

 

[trophy33]

God is a personal being though, and hence a personal pronoun should be used for her.

...for him.

 

[Aviela]

No, you did not. I was thinking there of the ace-in-the-hole argument that the advocates of womens ordination had to rely upon in the debates that took place in one of our most historic denominations. It seems stunning to me to just push Scripture aside like that, but if Scripture was to be the deciding factor in the outcome of that vote, there would have been almost nothing for those people to turn to in order to make their case.

Thanks for clarifying. However, I disagree with your view but at least we can disagree in a civil way.

 

[Albion]

"It's" does seem to most people to suggest that the HS is a force of the Father or something like that, but the New Testament uses a personal pronoun when referring to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Anytime a women of God obeys God first, she is being a leader. But there is a difference between a leader and a spiritual authority. Spiritual authority is a divine spiritual quality. God does not make women spiritual authorities over the Sons of God. Nor do Sons of God continually yield to a woman as their spiritual Authority. Yes, Women of God have spiritual authority over the Sons of Men and the Sons of the Devil, but not over the Sons of God. In the Bible, women are physical judges, they prophesy, they share the Gospel, they lead worship, but they do not have Spiritual Authority over the Men of God. The Men of God are given spiritual authority over women by God Himself. And the reason is that Authority is the tool God gives to perform a given responsibility. There are certain responsibilities God has given to men of God only. That is why God has given them Spiritual Authority.... to act out these responsibilities. Women who are not given the same responsibilities are also not given the associated Spiritual Authority. It has been like this since the beginning when God gave a commission and command to Adam before Eve was created. Before sin and the fall, Eve had no problem subjecting herself to Adam and God. And Adam had no problem exercising His authority to keep his responsibilities in the Garden with all kindness and love. But since Eve ate the fruit, women have desired rebelliously to have Authority over the men of God, and the men of God have exercised their Authority with harshness and a lack of love and not fulfilled their God-given responsibilities. In Christ, there is neither male nor female, but all are One. EVEN SO, the Holy Spirit, thru the Apostle to the Gentiles (PAUL) does not allow women of God to exert their spiritual authority over the Men of God, and neither should we. My personal experience is that Christ teaches me Himself. I have never gotten any spiritual revelation from any woman of God. They just cannot reveal anything of God to me that I don't already know because I get it straight from the Word (Jesus Christ) and the Scriptures. My human knowledge has been corrected by women (facts and details), but not my spiritual understanding of God or my interpretation of Scriptures. The Holy Ghost also will not allow me to sit under a woman "preacher". I do not even believe there is such a thing, as "preaching" is a spiritual act of "coughing up" God's timely, Spirit inspired word of instruction, and God does not spiritually rebuke Men of God using women. It's not His divine order. It's against His very Nature. He rebukes men Himself thru the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus and other Men of God. That is why I do not listen to women who are trying to spiritually rebuke me. It's not God. It's Satan. And I know this because they never quite get it right. They cannot get the rebuke correct because they themselves are not in the Spirit when they seek to exercise spiritual authority over a Man of God.

 

[Aviela]

God said about himself that He is Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, everything male gender.

This is in perfect agreement with verses about women being submitted.

There is more than one reference in the Bible regarding comparisons of God and the female gender. A few below:

Isaiah 66:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.”

Matthew 23:37 New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Isaiah 42:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

Promise of the Lord’s Help
14 “I have held My peace a long time,
I have been still and restrained Myself.
Now I will cry like a woman in a]">[a]labor,
I will pant and gasp at once.

 

[Aviela]

Anytime a women of God obeys God first, she is being a leader. But there is a difference between a leader and a spiritual authority. Spiritual authority is a divine spiritual quality. God does not make women spiritual authorities over the Sons of God. Nor do Sons of God continually yield to a woman as their spiritual Authority. Yes, Women of God have spiritual authority over the Sons of Men and the Sons of the Devil, but not over the Sons of God. In the Bible, women are physical judges, they prophesy, they share the Gospel, they lead worship, but they do not have Spiritual Authority over the Men of God. The Men of God are given spiritual authority over women by God Himself. And the reason is that Authority is the tool God gives to perform a given responsibility. There are certain responsibilities God has given to men of God only. That is why God has given them Spiritual Authority.... to act out these responsibilities. Women who are not given the same responsibilities are also not given the associated Spiritual Authority. It has been like this since the beginning when God gave a commission and command to Adam before Eve was created. Before sin and the fall, Eve had no problem subjecting herself to Adam and God. And Adam had no problem exercising His authority to keep his responsibilities in the Garden with all kindness and love. But since Eve ate the fruit, women have desired rebelliously to have Authority over the men of God, and the men of God have exercised their Authority with harshness and a lack of love and not fulfilled their God-given responsibilities. In Christ, there is neither male nor female, but all are One. EVEN SO, the Holy Spirit, thru the Apostle to the Gentiles (PAUL) does not allow women of God to exert their spiritual authority over the Men of God, and neither should we. My personal experience is that Christ teaches me Himself. I have never gotten any spiritual revelation from any woman of God. They just cannot reveal anything of God to me that I don't already know because I get it straight from the Word (Jesus Christ) and the Scriptures. My human knowledge has been corrected by women (facts and details), but not my spiritual understanding of God or my interpretation of Scriptures. The Holy Ghost also will not allow me to sit under a woman "preacher". I do not even believe there is such a thing, as "preaching" is a spiritual act of "coughing up" God's timely, Spirit inspired word of instruction, and God does not spiritually rebuke Men of God using women. It's not His divine order. It's against His very Nature. He rebukes men Himself thru the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus and other Men of God. That is why I do not listen to women who are trying to spiritually rebuke me. It's not God. It's Satan. And I know this because they never quite get it right. They cannot get the rebuke correct because they themselves are not in the Spirit when they seek to exercise spiritual authority over a Man of God.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've already made my point and have explained why.

 

[trophy33]

There is more than one reference in the Bible regarding comparisons of God and the female gender. A few below:

Isaiah 66:13 New International Version (NIV)
13 As a mother comforts her child,
so will I comfort you;
and you will be comforted over Jerusalem.”

Matthew 23:37 New King James Version (NKJV)

Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Isaiah 42:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

Promise of the Lord’s Help
14 “I have held My peace a long time,
I have been still and restrained Myself.
Now I will cry like a woman in a]">[a]labor,
I will pant and gasp at once.

You said it - its a comparison, image, illustration.

But God is referred to only as Father or Son. Never as mother or daughter.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've already made my point and have explained why.

Why do you think the Apostle Paul did not allow any of the women in any of the early Churches to "usurp authority" over the Men of God? What do you not agree with? Do you think God makes women spiritual authority over men of God?

 

[Aviela]

Why do you think the Apostle Paul did not allow any of the women in any of the early Churches to "usurp authority" over the Men of God?

I've already addressed this point via the video I posted in the first post...which I happen to agree with. If you were living during the time and within one of the groups in the Bible in which there was a woman in a leadership role, would you respect this as God's will.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

I've already addressed this point via the video I posted in the first post...which I happen to agree with. If you were living during the time and within one of the groups in the Bible in which there was a woman in a leadership role, would you respect this as God's will.

For sake of time, can you tell me a time or location in the Scriptures where God made a women a spiritual authority over the Sons of God (not the Sons of Men).

 

[PloverWing]

If the spiritual is a reflection of the physical, then men are spiritually stronger than women.

I can't think of any reason why that would be true. The ability to lift a 100-pound weight and the ability to teach or lead a congregation are completely different.

 

[Daniel C]

This was originally a response to another thread but it was posted in the wrong area so I posted it here:

Good question. I believe that the Bible is free from error but I also believe that women should be accepted into church leadership. Rather than believing the Bible has error, I believe that people misunderstand and misinterpret the Bible. This can come to light when we see varying contradictions. Women have been in leadership in the Bible and yet there are those few verses that make us question this very issue. I believe we need to see all scripture in context and see the truth of it. After all, it was Jesus (God) who stood up regarding the woman who was being stoned and the woman washing Jesus feet but man (people) who were in err.

You keep saying 'I believe' but this is nothing more then your personal opinion.

In my opinion I don't think women should be in positions of leadership, because men are stronger than women.