Brexit and bible prophecy

helmut

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That's a good comment. One of the big problems the UK has is free travel within the EU, which muslims are flooding into the UK.
Nonsene. The masses of Muslims in the UK are there due to the British empire resp. Commonwealth, e.g. people from Pakistan. From the EU, most people "flooding" the UK are Christians (e.g. Polish Catholics).

Allowing muslims to enter the EU in mass numbers has been a disaster. The muslims are using it as an unofficial invasion to take over Europe.
The events in 2015 were a desaster, no politician wants to repeat it. The danger is greater that Europe betray her values (human rights etc.) by refusing refugees who flee from Islam (Arab christians, converts to Chistianity, or simply secular "Muslims").

The backlash has been an uprise in populist movements in EU countries like Italy.
The Brexit is also a populist movement that threastens the British democracy. Farage, Orban, the German AfD, all are friends, and all are backed up by Russia (it was partly Russian money that allowed Farage to perform such a big campaign).

As you know, I don't follow your speculations about that horn, but why don't you try Putin? He has managed to replace Cameron (as a result of the Brexit votum), he tries to undermine Europe in many ways ... and he is "the 8th of the G7".
 
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Douggg

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If you use rounded values like this, there is no use to make a difference between 3½ years and 3½ years minus 3½ days.

7 years are 86 or 87 months, i.e. 2539.6 or 2569.2 days (±3 days). As you see, the difference between the rounded values used by biblical authors and the real values is greater than 3½ days.
There is no 3 1/2 year term in the bible. The closet thing to it is the time, times, half times. But that does not equate to exactly 3 1/12 years.

But to the core of the problem: I can draw practical consequences from what I understand from revelation, without having a timeline and knowing who the Beast will be. Does your vision allow you that, or is it pure speculation (in the original sense of "looking at") without influence to your daily life?
You have gone off in to the realm of philosophizing.
 
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Douggg

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Nonsene. The masses of Muslims in the UK are there due to the British empire resp. Commonwealth, e.g. people from Pakistan. From the EU, most people "flooding" the UK are Christians (e.g. Polish Catholics).
There is a big National Populist movement because of muslims flooding into the EU. The reason Turkey is not allowed in - is because of the flood of free travel under EU rules would just be a takeover of Europe.
 
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helmut

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There is no 3 1/2 year term in the bible. The closet thing to it is the time, times, half times. But that does not equate to exactly 3 1/12 years.
What does "time" in that expression mean, if not "year?

You have gone off in to the realm of philosophizing.
More "philosophizing" than you?
 
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helmut

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There is a big National Populist movement because of muslims flooding into the EU.
Muslims are not flooding, but since some demagogues of the populist sort speak of Muslims flooding Europe, there are populist movements. Especially in regions where there are less Muslims than elsewhere. It is East Germany, which has a low percentages of foreigners living there, where the populist AfD is most strong.

The reason Turkey is not allowed in - is because
...because Turkey is not democratic. Several coup-d'états barred Turkey from entering the EEC/EU, since she wanted to join in the early 1960s, then came Erdoghan and for some time the odds Turkey would enter the Union went higher, since he made democratic reforms. But then he turned around, teared the peace with the Kurdish PKK into pieces, and went more and more autocratic.
There has always the theme of Turkey as an Muslim country, which caused some countries (Germany and others) to hesitate, but this is since long before there came many Muslims to Europe.

the flood of free travel under EU rules would just be a takeover of Europe.
This sounds like propaganda from Erdoghan, but the Turks have not enough people to take over Europe.

The video you linked to is from one who in the very use of language betrays he is rather right-winged, one-sided. A party that risks the Netherlands might lose all the benefits of United Europe is called "protecting Holland" - well, like the Confederate States "protected" the Southern part of the USA.

We don't need liars that exaggerate the problems with Muslims or other foreigners, we need people that remind the Europeans of the commandment "you shall not murder" - not only in relation to abortion, but also with respect to the thousands of refugees who die every year at the border of Europe (mostly in the Mediterranean). Not few of them Christians who flee from Muslim persecution.
 
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Douggg

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Be more precise: what than?
There is not a precise number of days. It is approximately a year.

Your doctor tells you come back and see me in a year. You go to the appointment desk, and say, the doctor told me to come back in a year. So the person at the appointment desk makes an appointment for you - it is rarely an exact year later.
 
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helmut

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There is not a precise number of days. It is approximately a year.

Your doctor tells you come back and see me in a year. You go to the appointment desk, and say, the doctor told me to come back in a year. So the person at the appointment desk makes an appointment for you - it is rarely an exact year later.
Why do you think the 3½ times should be interpreted as that?
 
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Douggg

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Why do you think the 3½ times should be interpreted as that?
Because the time, times, half times can be a little more than exactly 3 1/2 years or a little less than 3 1/2 years.

In the end times verses - the time, times, half times, the 42 months, the 1260 days are not exact equivalents of each other, although close to be being.

In Revelation 11:2 - 42 months
In Revelation 11:3 - 1260 days, the very next verse.

In Revelation 12:6 - 1260 days
In Revelation 12:14 - time, times, half time.

In Revelation 13:5 - 42 months

In Daniel 12:7 - time, times, half time
In Daniel 12:11 - 1290 days
In Daniel 12:12 - 1335 days
_____________________________________________________________________________

Do you think, for example, the 1260 days of the two witnesses corresponds to the 42 months that the beast rules the earth in Revelation 13:5?

Or would it make more sense that the 42 months that the nations control the outer court of the temple corresponds to the 42 months that the beast rules the earth in Revelation 13:5.

The 42 months go together.

Since the 1260 days is expressed in the very next verse of Revelation 11:3 - it is different, and is not an exact equivalent.

Since the 42 months that the beast rules the earth - the 42 months are basically the second half.

The 1260 days come before it.

1260 days, then 3 1/2 days, then 1256.5 days (the 42 months) = 7 years total.
 
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Douggg

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All of the timeframes are on this chart. AoD (Abomination of Desolation) setup on day 1185 of the 7 years.

299378_434ba8950b3a4f9b6b12cf3c5c6c6cf8.jpeg
 
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Douggg

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helmut,

In your bathroom,
put all your cleaning materials together
put all your shaving stuff together
put all your tooth brushing stuff together

In your bedroom
put all your socks together
put all your underwear together
put all your shirts together
put all your pants together

In your kitchen
put all your plates together
put all your glasses together
put all your forks together
put all your spoons together
put all your dish detergent together

In your garage
put all your wood screws together
put all your screwdrivers together
put all your nails together
put all your sockets together

In end times bible prophecy
put the 42 months together
put the time, times, half time together
put the 1260 days together

The first half
1260 days Revelation 11:3, 12:6

In the second half
3 1/2 days, Revelation 11:11-12
42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
time, times, half time Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14
 
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helmut

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Because the time, times, half times can be a little more than exactly 3 1/2 years or a little less than 3 1/2 years.
You said that 3½ years can be somewhat more or less than exactly 3½ years (this was the message of your doctor example). So this is no new thing.

In the end times verses - the time, times, half times, the 42 months, the 1260 days are not exact equivalents of each other, although close to be being.
As I said, given the way the Bible treats time lengths, they are "exactly" the same.

In Revelation 11:2 - 42 months
In Revelation 11:3 - 1260 days, the very next verse.
Probably the same time span.

In Revelation 12:6 - 1260 days
In Revelation 12:14 - time, times, half time.
Probably the same time span.

In Daniel 12:11 - 1290 days
This are 43 months. Since Daniel does not reckon a year automatically as 12 months = 360 days, this could well be the "times, times, half time".

In Daniel 12:12 - 1335 days
This are 44.5 months. Since "times, times, half time" can be at most 44 months, this is definitely longer.

Do you think, for example, the 1260 days of the two witnesses corresponds to the 42 months that the beast rules the earth in Revelation 13:5?
Why not?

It would be interesting to look on the symbolic meaning of these numbers, maybe there is a key why the time span is measured in different units even in consecutive verses.
 
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helmut

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helmut, I bolded and color coded some of your text, highlighting it. What you wrote is the bottom line...a self imposed closed mind.
I don't want to answer to your slander, but remember you of the question I already put here: Is Revelation for you only a means to build a time-line of future events, or does it have practical consequences for your present life?

As you may know, cash is partly replaced by digital means (e.g. credit card, pay by app, etc.). There are even plans to abolish cash altogether. If this should happen, it would be easy to deny a person to buy or sell anything: just remove his bank accords etc. with some mouse-clicks. And there are even people here and there that have their RFID credit chip not in a card, but under their skin.
So, in the light of Rev 13:16-17, I decided to use cash as far as possible, and not to support the trend toward cashless economy. And I'm satisfied that cash in my country is still more important than, say, in the US.

Do come to that decision, I don't need to know who the beast is, I see a feature that is relevant even in our time.

This is what prophecy is for: to guide us on our way. It is not for teaching us future things that will not influence our daily life, because they are future. When the beast will emerge, the ones who follow Jesus will discern it. We don't need to know it exactly by now, and we don't need a timeline.
 
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Douggg

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So, in the light of Rev 13:16-17, I decided to use cash as far as possible, and not to support the trend toward cashless economy. And I'm satisfied that cash in my country is still more important than, say, in the US.
I agree to use cash as much as possible. I try to do the same.

If you are concerned over the evil of the bankers, central bankers, and the direction they are pushing the world, in regards to have total control over people - then I agree.

The banks are using your money and giving you nothing for it. Do you have negative interest rates in Germany? Negative interests rates should be illegal on depositors' money. They are punishing you for saving. Derivatives giant Deutsch bank is a disaster waiting to happen for the global banking system.

The person who eventually becomes the beast may have a background in EU banking. Ezekiel 28:4-5.

I see where you are from Germany. I spent 2 1/2 years in Zirndorf, outside of Nuremberg - while in the army, a long time ago.
 
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Douggg

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This are 43 months. Since Daniel does not reckon a year automatically as 12 months = 360 days, this could well be the "times, times, half time".
Daniel 12.

time, times, half time - unknown in terms of days.*
1290 days
1335 days

*Not exactly 42 months, not exactly 1260 days, not exactly 3 1/2 years. It approximates those.
 
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keras

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It would be interesting to look on the symbolic meaning of these numbers, maybe there is a key why the time span is measured in different units even in consecutive verses.
I have before discussed this issue of the mis-matching time periods of Daniel and Revelation.
Most people just cannot see how things will be changed by the Lord's terrible Day of wrath, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by a strike on the earth of a Coronal Mass Ejection. Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, +
Isaiah 13:13 plainly tells us; on that Day, the earth will be moved from her place.
This must have an effect on our orbital speed and the time it takes for 1 year to pass. It is recorded in ancient documents and even the Bible proves that there were 12/ 30 day months in every 360 day year. [Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:4, = 150 days- Genesis 7:24]
So we will go back to the original; a year of 360 days, which is as Daniel and Jesus tell us; 3 1/2 years will be exactly 42 months and 1260 days.
 
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helmut

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Isaiah 30:26a, Malachi 4:1, +
Isaiah 13:13 plainly tells us; on that Day, the earth will be moved from her place
Is 13:13 refers to an earth quake that happened in the time if Isaiah, and in the other verses there is no mention of the earth moving or changing its orbit.

This must have an effect on our orbital speed and the time it takes for 1 year to pass. It is recorded in ancient documents and even the Bible proves that there were 12/ 30 day months in every 360 day year. [Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:4, = 150 days- Genesis 7:24]
So we will go back to the original; a year of 360 days, which is as Daniel and Jesus tell us; 3 1/2 years will be exactly 42 months and 1260 days.
Well, since a month was reckoned as 30 days even in times where we know for sure that the average length of a month was about 29.53056 days, these text do only prove that this rounding was used from the very beginning, there is no reason why we should think the length of a month was exactly 30 days in that time. And we are not compelled to interpret the verses you quoted the way you do. That's pure speculation with a very thin base.
 
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keras

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Is 13:13 refers to an earth quake that happened in the time if Isaiah, and in the other verses there is no mention of the earth moving or changing its orbit.
Your unsupported opinion.
I do not say the earth will change its orbital track, just speed it up by 5.24 days. It will hardly be noticed after the Day it happens.
Plain reading of all the prophesies about this forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath, makes it clear it hasn't happened yet.
The Lord will use His creation, the sun to literally fulfil all the vivid descriptions of what will happen on that Day. Isaiah 30:26a It will make the moon shine bright red, it will push aside our atmosphere facing the sun, it will darken the sky, it will shake the earth, it will burn up His enemies, and it will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus returns.
 
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helmut

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Your unsupported opinion.
And your opinion is supported?

I do not say the earth will change its orbital track, just speed it up by 5.24 days. It will hardly be noticed after the Day it happens.
Even a change of 0.24 days a year means that the orbit changed. A change is a change, even it is small.

And 5.2422 from 365.2422 days is a change of about 1.4%, or about 1540 km/h (about 960 mph). Even if it is gradual (not by impact), it will cause massive floods (tsunami-like) on many coasts, and maybe even a series of volcanic eruptions. Hardly be noted? Only if the orbit changes by miracle, which does eliminate the consequences.

Plain reading of all the prophesies about this forthcoming Day of the Lord's wrath, makes it clear it hasn't happened yet.
There are several days of the Lord's wrath that have already happened. At least three of them: the destruction 0f Samaria, the first and second destruction of Jerusalem. Before you claim a prophecy is about future, check whether it has been fulfilled in the past ...

The Lord will use His creation, the sun to literally fulfil all the vivid descriptions of what will happen on that Day. Isaiah 30:26a It will make the moon shine bright red, it will push aside our atmosphere facing the sun, it will darken the sky, it will shake the earth, it will burn up His enemies, and it will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus returns.
Everything you number could be explained by volcanic eruption - or by the shot- and mid-term consequences of a nuclear war. No need of invoking a change in the orbit of the earth.
 
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