Not Lawful for the Jews to Kill...?

[Lazarus Short]

I was reading in the Gospel of John this morning, and came up short on this:

Pilate, therefore, said to them, 'Take ye him -- ye -- and according to your law judge him;' the Jews, therefore, said to him, 'It is not lawful to us to put any one to death;'
-John 18:31, YLT

It wasn't the YLT I was reading, but chose it to quote...but what I thought was, How about that, the Jews were lying through their teeth, as they had picked up stones to stone Jesus two or three times previously, and it is recorded in other Gospels too. So can anyone tell me - were they just being politically correct and/or were they actually outwardly obeying Roman Law but killing on the side, or were they flat-out lying to Pilate? I know I'm almost answering my own question, but I'm looking for some deeper insights here...

Who can give me some insight...?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Who can give me some insight...?

Find A Jewish man, a follower of Yahushua or not, but with knowledge of the first century Roman law. It is simple, not complicated, and virtually unknown today.

 

[Dave L]

I was reading in the Gospel of John this morning, and came up short on this:

Pilate, therefore, said to them, 'Take ye him -- ye -- and according to your law judge him;' the Jews, therefore, said to him, 'It is not lawful to us to put any one to death;'
-John 18:31, YLT

It wasn't the YLT I was reading, but chose it to quote...but what I thought was, How about that, the Jews were lying through their teeth, as they had picked up stones to stone Jesus two or three times previously, and it is recorded in other Gospels too. So can anyone tell me - were they just being politically correct and/or were they actually outwardly obeying Roman Law but killing on the side, or were they flat-out lying to Pilate? I know I'm almost answering my own question, but I'm looking for some deeper insights here...

Who can give me some insight...?

Didn't the Roman occupation take away many of their rights?

 

[Dave-W]

.but what I thought was, How about that, the Jews were lying through their teeth, as they had picked up stones to stone Jesus two or three times previously, and it is recorded in other Gospels too. So can anyone tell me - were they just being politically correct and/or were they actually outwardly obeying Roman Law but killing on the side, or were they flat-out lying to Pilate?

Whether ethnic minorities could conduct their own justice (including capital punishment) was at the whim of the local governor. He had wide latitude in maintaining "Pax Romana," the peace of Rome. If there had been a riot or uprising, the governor would clamp down for a while until things got settled and then he would relax them. What you are seeing in those various verses was Pilate doing his job in that capacity.

Some times you could and other times you could not.

 

[HTacianas]

I was reading in the Gospel of John this morning, and came up short on this:

Pilate, therefore, said to them, 'Take ye him -- ye -- and according to your law judge him;' the Jews, therefore, said to him, 'It is not lawful to us to put any one to death;'
-John 18:31, YLT

It wasn't the YLT I was reading, but chose it to quote...but what I thought was, How about that, the Jews were lying through their teeth, as they had picked up stones to stone Jesus two or three times previously, and it is recorded in other Gospels too. So can anyone tell me - were they just being politically correct and/or were they actually outwardly obeying Roman Law but killing on the side, or were they flat-out lying to Pilate? I know I'm almost answering my own question, but I'm looking for some deeper insights here...

Who can give me some insight...?

The Romans had taken away from the Jews the authority to execute people under Jewish law as part of the Roman occupation. That a group of Jews "took up stones" is little more than an angry mob.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Didn't the Roman occupation take away many of their rights?

I assume so, otherwise would they have revolted in 66 AD?

 

[Dave-W]

Find A Jewish man, a follower of Yahushua or not, but with knowledge of the first century Roman law. It is simple, not complicated, and virtually unknown today.

Actually, anyone with an understanding of Roman history.

 

[Dave-W]

The biggest instigators of trouble were the Zealots.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Actually, anyone with an understanding of Roman history.

Actually, too many propagate false history/ false teachings.

 

[Ken Rank]

I was reading in the Gospel of John this morning, and came up short on this:

Pilate, therefore, said to them, 'Take ye him -- ye -- and according to your law judge him;' the Jews, therefore, said to him, 'It is not lawful to us to put any one to death;'
-John 18:31, YLT

It wasn't the YLT I was reading, but chose it to quote...but what I thought was, How about that, the Jews were lying through their teeth, as they had picked up stones to stone Jesus two or three times previously, and it is recorded in other Gospels too. So can anyone tell me - were they just being politically correct and/or were they actually outwardly obeying Roman Law but killing on the side, or were they flat-out lying to Pilate? I know I'm almost answering my own question, but I'm looking for some deeper insights here...

Who can give me some insight...?

I would think they were lying. They stoned Steven, they were going to stone the woman... and Yeshua himself. It is possible that the elite put one face on for Rome and behind the scenes acted otherwise as needed and when able. In Yeshua's case... it was too public at that time, too many were aware of him, their hands were tied.

The truth is, what you called Jewish law did indeed have as a penalty for certain transgressions, death. But the Jews were also under Roman rule and how much they could practice according to their beliefs is in question. The Torah (Law) as written, is for when Israel is sovereign and there is a Temple.

 

[FireDragon76]

Didn't the Roman occupation take away many of their rights?

I suspect if they had stoned Jesus, it would have simply been like an extrajudicial killing. Technically illegal but in practice not something they could do much about (sort of like tribal areas of Pakistan). I suspect the authorities wanted a more public execution for Jesus because that would give an official stamp of approval on his death "look, he was bad for Rome so obviously he was bad for us, too".

 

[FireDragon76]

BTW, one of the Talmuds suppossedly lists a guy named Yeshu that was going to be stoned for sorcery. Some scholars believe there is a direct connection, but many others don't- many believe Yeshu ha-Notsri is simply some kind of anti-Christian polemic..

 

[FireDragon76]

The funny thing about Roman rule- the Hasmomean kings and queens were so corrupt that some Jews essentially wanted to become vassals of Rome just so they could get some "law and order". Herod did not fall far from the tree in that regard.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Reading on, we find this rebuke from Pilate, in 19:6 -

"When, therefore, the chief priests and the officers did see him, they cried out, saying, 'Crucify, crucify;' Pilate saith to them, 'Take ye him -- ye, and crucify; for I find no fault in him;'" YLT

I get the feeling of mutual loathing here, and also that Pilate tried to save Jesus until his allegiance to Caesar came into question. Did the Jews have something on him?