Is abstaining from sin worth anything if done for the wrong reasons?

Lucian Hodoboc

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.
 

Dave-W

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Worth anything you said. Yes. This fictitious girl in your story will be much better off in the physical for doing all of that. She will be healthier and more productive. Probably live a much longer life.

But will it help her in the ultimate end? Probably not. Without repentance and faith, she will still eventually end up in hell.
 
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HTacianas

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.

That would be a good start. What becomes of her on Judgement day I wouldn't dare speculate.
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.

Abstaining from sin for sinful reasons is sin.
 
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Hammster

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.
Anything not done for His glory is sin, and has no real benefit.

What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul?
 
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Lucian Hodoboc

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Anything not done for His glory is sin, and has no real benefit.

What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul?
What about 1 Corinthians 7:14 ?

"For the unbelieving husband is set apart for God by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart for God by the husband. Otherwise your children would be corrupt, but now they are set apart for God."
 
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Hammster

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What about 1 Corinthians 7:14 ?

"For the unbelieving husband is set apart for God by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart for God by the husband. Otherwise your children would be corrupt, but now they are set apart for God."
What about it?
 
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FireDragon76

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Abstaining from sin for sinful reasons is sin.

7. The works of the righteous would be mortal sins if they would not be feared as mortal sins by the righteous themselves out of pious fear of God.

8. Thus are the works of man mortal sins when they are done without fear and in unadulterated, evil self-security.

- Martin Luther, Heidelberg Disputations

More or less, Luther is saying here, it's always safer to assume our best work is just a mortal sin.
 
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SkyWriting

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.


God has an appreciation for all people who follow His rules, for any reason.
I wouldn't say this before, but then this finally sunk in:

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you,
do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
 
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Brightmoon

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.
it’s worthwhile because all of those behaviors you described were toxic ,. Stopping toxic behavior is always a good thing even if done to please someone else . Eventually she’ll do it because she feels better . What you don’t seem to understand is that this IS God working to better this woman’s life . With the help of her believer boyfriend she might acknowledge that eventually.
 
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FireDragon76

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.


I think this is a good example of why we insist that justification is by faith, and not works. People can conform to religious rules without true love of God or their neighbor, but their motives are mercenary at best when they do so.
 
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Thess

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.

[Rom 4:16] "So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham's. For Abraham is the father of all who believe."

That faith of Abraham is quintessential knowledge for every True Christian. We must also know the Law of Moses, The Mysterious Plan, the full workings of the Holy Spirit.

The Law is a three stage system over time....it is important to know why there was no law at all, turned to LOM, and then the Laws of Christ, written on our hearts. If we don't know these things, how can our belief system be in proper order? And if not, then how can we properly submit? If we don't properly submit, how would we ever obey? And if we won't obey, how can we be confident? How can we share if we are not confident?

Seek God with all of your heart and if you do, He will not disappoint. But don't be like everyone else, who knocks only a few times and then walks away. God doesn't always answer on the first knock, He waits to see who is serious.
 
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Loyce KG

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.
He shouldn't marry her for they would be unequally yoked despite her goodness. While her change of behavior is beneficial to her and society in general, it amounts to nothing before God. Her righteousness is unto men but certainly not God for it is not by faith in Jesus Christ.

His word says;

“But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭64:6‬ ‭

It is only in Christ that God even considers our attempt to do good works. Without faith in Christ, they are tainted by sin.(Romans 3:9-23)
 
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paul1149

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons?
I go to a bridge intending to jump off. At the last minute I stop because I want to vote in the election next month.

Is that a good thing? Yes, because there is hope that in that month I will have a change of heart. But if I don't have a change of heart, sooner or later I'm going to go through with my intentions.

The hypothetical girl does a good thing by pursuing righteousness. There is the hope that it will "stick", and become heartfelt. That certainly happens. And even strictly in the natural, righteousness has its rewards. But if the girl doesn't take the step of faith at some point, she's in a precarious spot where all of it hangs on her love for the boy. And if that love wears thin later on, or breaks completely, then what?

Any step in the right direction is to be encouraged, in hope. But we should not mistake this for taking a true step of faith.
 
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Dave L

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Is abstaining from sin worth anything if it is done for the wrong reasons? For example, if a person abstains from sin because they don't want to disappoint people or saints instead of abstaining out of love for God, is the abstinence from sin in such a case a sin in itself?

To give a more particular example: let's say that an agnostic girl who used to live a depraved life (engaged in promiscuity, fornication, drugs etc.) falls in love with a Christian guy and he reciprocates her love, but he tells her that they can only get married if she strives to repent and stop sinning. She doesn't believe in God, but because she is very much in love with the Christian guy, she quits all her previous sinful habits. She starts living a life that could be considered righteous (she dresses modestly, changes her behavior and quits all drugs and all forms of fornication), she attends church and even tries to pray, but she only does so in order to please her partner, without believing that God actually exists. She is honest to her boyfriend about her lack of belief and about the fact that she has turned over a new leaf out of love for him, not out of sincere Christian repentance. Should he marry her? Would her change of lifestyle amount to anything in God's eyes, or will she still be damned at the end of her days?

Answers from Christians belonging to all denominations are welcomed.
Abstaining from sin for the wrong reasons is also sin. But better than not abstaining at all.
 
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Abstaining from sin for sinful reasons is sin.
I don't understand this. Why is abstaining from sin for the wrong reasons also sin?
Isn't sin deliberately doing something against God's will? And isn't it God's will that we not engage in these behaviors? So if we're deliberately NOT engaging in these behaviors, for whatever reason, aren't we in some sense obeying God?
 
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Dave L

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I don't understand this. Why is abstaining from sin for the wrong reasons?

I don't understand this. Isn't sin deliberately doing something against God's will? And isn't it God's will that we not engage in these behaviors? So if we're deliberately NOT engaging in these behaviors, for whatever reason, aren't we in some sense obeying God?
Motive determines the value of an act. Paul says even martyrdom avails nothing if not motivated by love.
 
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Mary Meg

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Motive determines the value of an act. Paul says even martyrdom avails nothing if not motivated by love.
But you're talking about merit, not whether something is sinful or not. Why would doing something good with an imperfect motive be against God's will?
 
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