Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

[JIMINZ]

All of scripture, but your experience may be no different from the experience of nuslims and hindus. Thye have prophrecy and tongues. Mohammed had prophecy, even the apostate king Saul prophecied.

Mohammed was a False Prophet.

It is impossible for Muslims and Hindus to have Prophecy and Tongues, they are both False Religions and do not in any way represent the One True God.

Like I said, just because something may be used out of order, does not mean it has ceased.

All of Scripture does not say what you think it says.

 

[NBB]

Cessationist make obsolete whole parts of the NT written to churches with little reason, with some different interpretations of some not so clear passages.

 

[JIMINZ]

Show me someone today who has given us revelation or visions or prophecy that is on par with John's Revelation or the other books of the Bible. Has someone made predictions that always come true 100% of the time? Where are they today? Do their predictions seek to glorify Christ in some way or do they uplift themselves?

If someone Prophesies in Church one Sunday for the very first time, by what measure do you judge his words?

You don't Judge the Prophesy of one Prophet by the words of another, that is the respecting persons.

You Judge each of the words themselves, separately, not Judging the Person at all.

 

[JIMINZ]

I am not denying that miracles can happen today. What I am saying is that the gifts of a believer having like say the gift of healing, prophecy, etc. is for today. God can certainly heal people, but I believe this is either by prayer or by His call and choosing. There is nobody today who healed like Paul and Peter did. Find me a Christian today who can tell a cripple man since birth to be healed just by speaking to him. Find me a Christian whose clothes can heal others. Find me a Christian whose shadow can heal others.

You are seeking after a sign before you will believe, no sign will be given.
WHY?
Because you would not believe it anyway.

 

[JIMINZ]

I was told once that tongues is a necessary sign of being a true Christian which didn't seem right since not all the first Christians had the same gifts in Acts,

You are confusing the two different types of Tongues, just because a Christian can and does speak in Tongues, does not mean he has the Gift of Tongues.

 

[David Kent]

It is impossible for Muslims and Hindus to have Prophecy and Tongues, they are both False Religions and do not in any way represent the One True God.

Like I said, just because something may be used out of order, does not mean it has ceased.

Not all charismatics would agree with you. I saw a book called Charismatic Renewal in the SPCK bookshop and one of the chapters was "Charismatic renewal amongst the Muslims."

Mohammed was a False Prophet.

Exactly

 

[JIMINZ]

The miracles that Jesus and His apostles performed were signs. They were not meant to be performed indefinitely.

John 20:30 Therefore many other [g]signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is [h]the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Maybe it's just this simple.

Mat. 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

 

[JIMINZ]

Right. Confirming the word with signs following.

"And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." (Mark 16:20).

What was THE WORD which the signs followed?

 

[NBB]

I believe God wants to do more, a lot more, cessationists cut themselves from the works of God. Not even accepting the filling of the Holy spirit, which is very biblical of course.

 

[W2L]

Maybe it's just this simple.

Mat. 13:58
And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[JIMINZ]

The miracles that Jesus and His apostles performed were signs. They were not meant to be performed indefinitely.

And the Scripture verses which state this little known fact are?

 

[W2L]

And the Scripture verses which state this little known fact are?

John 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

John 20:30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[JAL]

All of scripture, but your experience may be no different from the experience of nuslims and hindus. Thye have prophrecy and tongues. Mohammed had prophecy, even the apostate king Saul prophecied.

Understandable concern. Just give me a cogent explanation as to how Paul authenticated the voice and vision on the Road to Damascus - a voice contradicting his previous exegesis-based conclusions - and then we'll be happy to tell YOU how to authenticate the experiences of today.

Because I, personally, tend to think of Paul as an excellent model to follow. Don't you?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@JIMINZ

I have moved on from discussing this topic for now.
I am still researching it more; But the more I research it, the more I keep leaning more towards of what I would call "Partial Cessationism." For the term "Cessationism" is misleading to some.

Anyways, please take note that I do believe it is possible (not a fact) that there may be some rare individuals out there or a small group of believers in some remote jungle who are operating by the miraculous gifts today. But the stuff I have seen so far is not what I have seen in the Bible. Besides only one person I know of (online), most have aligned themselves with Charismatics in whom I strongly feel are not operating by what the Bible says.

In any event, may God bless you.
Please do not respond or attempt to keep the discussion alive.
I am not interested at this time in discussing this topic.

May the Lord's goodness be upon you.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

 

[JIMINZ]

John 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

John 20:30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Theses two verses to you are saying,
Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased?

 

[W2L]

Theses two verses to you are saying,
Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased?

Nope.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

You are confusing the two different types of Tongues, just because a Christian can and does speak in Tongues, does not mean he has the Gift of Tongues.

Actually, there are 3 types of Tongues.

1) Pentecostal tongues where all heard in their own language
2) Speaking messages in Tongues with Interpretation
3) Praying in tongues... aka Praying in the Spirit.

The Gift of Tongues usually refers to #2. It's an explicit gift of the Spirit that usually is exemplary in a few individuals in the Church. But it's also a gift given to everyone who is Born Again. Any believer can Pray in the Spirit (#3). We don't see the Miracle of tongues (#1) much anymore. But #2 and #3 are still very common, at least where they are properly taught and practiced.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

I know Tongues still exists because God spoke to me in another language and then interpreted it. He said "Habor akasha ete" and then said it means "I have loved you with a everlasting love". Also, I've been in church services where the entire congregation fell silent, a man started speaking in a royal language, and when he stopped, a lady got up and spoke the English translation and the Holy Spirit agreed in me that what she was saying was what was meant.

Most of the blabbering you see in Pentecostalism is not real Tongues. But some of it is. Tongues will only completely cease when the Perfect Son of God appears and we are made Perfect.... when we fully know as we are known. Anyone who says Tongues has ceased is misinterpreting those Scriptures and lacking personal experience in the matter with the Holy Spirit.

 

[JIMINZ]

1) Pentecostal tongues where all heard in their own language
2) Speaking messages in Tongues with Interpretation
3) Praying in tongues... aka Praying in the Spirit.

Don't #1 & #2 both fall under the understanding of being in the Gifts, just different applications of the same?

Whereas, #3 is received by the Believer upon his Baptism and infilling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Don't #1 & #2 both fall under the understanding of being in the Gifts, just different applications of the same?

Whereas, #3 is received by the Believer upon his Baptism and infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Yes. But even #3 is a gift of the Spirit. You can't pray in the spirit without the Spirit.