"j"esus culture and hillsong apostates

[Natsumi Lam]

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[Natsumi Lam]

That's correct. Most of the healings done by Jesus include deliverance.

So true!

 

[Romans 8]

So true!

Yes, and Jesus heals today. Which means many people today are receiving deliverance with their healing today. God Bless!

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Like I said, people have different ways to pray, whether they are Christian or Hindu. It's not for me to judge these things needlessly. Jesus said by their fruit we will know them. God doesn't care about religious piety or exactly how you pray, but he does care about doing justice and loving mercy.

When the church adopts and mates with the world....that is the issue. That is what can be seen with a dicerning and educated eye when it come to Bethel... Hillsong etc especally the recent Easter services and MVs.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Yes, and Jesus heals today. Which means many people today are receiving deliverance with their healing today. God Bless!

Amen the Jesus heals and delivers today!!! PTL

 

[FireDragon76]

Just remember even Jesus asked the name of the demons in Mark 5.

That doesn't imply that knowing the name of a demon gives any particular power over them, which is an assumption that is frequent in demonology.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

That doesn't imply that knowing the name of a demon gives any particular power over them, which is an assumption that is frequent in demonology.

Assumption? Have you been a part of deliverance ministries? Catholic, protestant or otherwise? More than once?

Why do you believe Jesus asked their name? He could have done tones of other things.

 

[FireDragon76]

Assumption? Have you been a part of deliverance ministries? Catholic, protestant or otherwise? More than once?

Why do you believe Jesus asked their name? He could have done tones of other things.

Why should I psychologize God in that manner? It has nothing to do with his lack of ability to cast out the demon. He could have simply willed it if he wanted, and the demon would have left. But he asked the demon its name for our benefit, so that we would understand the power of God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That doesn't imply that knowing the name of a demon gives any particular power over them, which is an assumption that is frequent in demonology.

Frankly, I see a concern demon names and thinking knowing a demon's "true name" gives one power as occultish and magical thinking.

Our Lord didn't ask the demon's name--the one time--because by knowing it He gained power over it. Such a thought is deeply problematic and amounts to belief in sorcery.

Christ is Lord, and so the demons tremble. This is sufficient for us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why do you believe Jesus asked their name? He could have done tones of other things.

I don't know why, in that singular instance, He asked their name; but it seems the point in the narrative is that there wasn't a single demon, but many, they were a legion of demons hence calling themselves "legion".

But our Lord did not use some sort of true name sorcery to gain power over them. He is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and the devils tremble. And we, who belong to Him, have this promise, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."

For Christ who has triumphed has ruined the old kingdom of the devil, and his doom is certain. The devils are cowards and snakes, why fear them? The name of Jesus causes them to shut up, resist them and they must flee, indeed we do well to know that one little word shall fell him.

"That word above all earthly pow'rs, no thanks to them, abideth;
The Spirit and the gifts are ours through Him Who with us sideth;
Let goods and kindred go, this mortal life also;
The body they may kill: God's truth abideth still,
His kingdom is forever."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Natsumi Lam]

I don't know why, in that singular instance, He asked their name; but it seems the point in the narrative is that there wasn't a single demon, but many, they were a legion of demons hence calling themselves "legion".

But our Lord did not use some sort of true name sorcery to gain power over them. He is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and the devils tremble. And we, who belong to Him, have this promise, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."

For Christ who has triumphed has ruined the old kingdom of the devil, and his doom is certain. The devils are cowards and snakes, why fear them? The name of Jesus causes them to shut up, resist them and they must flee, indeed we do well to know that one little word shall fell him.

"That word above all earthly pow'rs, no thanks to them, abideth;
The Spirit and the gifts are ours through Him Who with us sideth;
Let goods and kindred go, this mortal life also;
The body they may kill: God's truth abideth still,
His kingdom is forever."

-CryptoLutheran

Sorcery....really...calling it socery because it doesnt follow your thoughts is a bit too far.

How many biblical example do you need because you said its "just one"?

I never said to fear demons.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sorcery....really...calling it socery because it doesnt follow your thoughts is a bit too far.

How many biblical example do you need because you said its "just one"?

I never said to fear demons.

The idea that knowing a thing's "true name" gives one power over it is a form of "magick", so yeah, I called it sorcery. It's an occult idea, it is antithetical to Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Natsumi Lam]

The idea that knowing a thing's "true name" gives one power over it is a form of "magick", so yeah, I called it sorcery. It's an occult idea, it is antithetical to Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

Yours is an opinion, an uneducated one at that. It is evident in your response about Mark 5. It is not any form of magick unless you believe Jesus also performed magick by asking their name. You dont even know why He asked their name. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yours is an opinion, an uneducated one at that. It is evident in your response about Mark 5. It is not any form of magick unless you believe Jesus also performed magick by asking their name. You dont even know why He asked their name. We will have to agree to disagree.

I know that the Son of God doesn't need to use "magick" in order to drive out demons. So there's that.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Natsumi Lam]

I know that the Son of God doesn't need to use "magick" in order to drive out demons. So there's that.

-CryptoLutheran

Again do your research on Mark 5. Why did Jesus take the time to ask the demons their name?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Apparently another church/denomination that has largely fallen into apostasy is the "C3" franchise. Just heard a report on LPR about something outrageous that one of their pastors said in regard to Jesus, Martha and Lazarus.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't know why, in that singular instance, He asked their name; but it seems the point in the narrative is that there wasn't a single demon, but many, they were a legion of demons hence calling themselves "legion".

It's catechetical. Jesus isn't just casting out one demon, but a legion of demons, to demonstrate his authority over evil. It's a narrative device.

But our Lord did not use some sort of true name sorcery to gain power over them. He is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and the devils tremble. And we, who belong to Him, have this promise, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."

Absolutely. Luther objected to pomp in exorcism, by all accounts, advising congregations to only engage in prayer. As one Catholic exorcist put it, Jesus is the true exorcist.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus never engages in anything remotely magical to perform miracles. When he used mud to heal the blind man in John 9, that is a symbol of his identity as the Creator, who made man from the earth. It is an act of re-creation. I never understood the "why" of that until I read James Alison's book, Faith Beyond Resentment, where he discusses the miracle in terms of Jesus' ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

It's catechetical. Jesus isn't just casting out one demon, but a legion of demons, to demonstrate his authority over evil. It's a narrative device.



Absolutely. Luther objected to pomp in exorcism, by all accounts, advising congregations to only engage in prayer. As one Catholic exorcist put it, Jesus is the true exorcist.

When you do deliverance you rarely cast out only one. Basics of deliverance. How do you know that this is just a narrative?

Who cares what Luther ultimately says about deliverance if he is wrong. Jesus spend a good amount of His ministry setting the captives free. So should we.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Jesus never engages in anything remotely magical to perform miracles. When he used mud to heal the blind man in John 9, that is a symbol of his identity as the Creator, who made man from the earth. It is an act of re-creation. I never understood the "why" of that until I read James Alison's book, Faith Beyond Resentment, where he discusses the miracle in terms of Jesus' ministry of reconciliation.

Using mud sounds magickal to me in your context. Might as well call Jesus a sorcerer as well for all the magick. This is in your context.