What church calls leadership is a corrupt theology

[Alithis]

The entire system of sunday meetings and buildings is based upon a principle of Control and money.

It does two things JESUS said are NOT to be so.

It exercises dominion OVER people
And Lords it over people.

Jesus said that is the ways of the gentile
Heathen to exercise authority and lord it over.. But with YOU...it is not so.

Yet the entire sunday and saturday system is based upon a theology that opposes the words of JESUS.

 

[Alithis]

The doctrines inside scripture before they are extracted and changed state specifically that servant hood trumps dominance. Every time.
Jesus being the corner stone even though high priest. The apostles and prophets being foundations ... Foundations are beneath the building
Not over it..
In every aspect the theology surrounding churched leadership is corrupted and domineering

 

[Norbert L]

To lump the entirety of Christianity into such a basket strikes me of containing a good smattering of the error of Korah. He was jealous of what was going on, how Moses organized the nation because that model didn't suit his own personal viewpoint about what needed to be done.

"They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, “You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the Lord’s assembly?” Numbers 16:3

 

[Alithis]

To lump the entirety of Christianity into such a basket strikes me of containing a good smattering of the error of Korah. He was jealous of what was going on, how Moses organized the nation because that model didn't suit his own personal viewpoint about what needed to be done.

"They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, “You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the Lord’s assembly?” Numbers 16:3

And we have the first ad hominem winner.

Ignore the topic and go straight to making ot about the poster..

Shall we try again.
All churches that meet on sundays in a building adhere to the same SYSTEM of a semi boss over the common people.
Name one that does not ...
They all use differing titles ... But the system pattern remains the same.
1 person at the front calling the shots.

And to justify this system they use a corrupted theology that one is taught from people . not directly from scripture

 

[FireDragon76]

People are free to come up with different church structures, we don't disagree with that. But we find the structure we have acceptable and serving our needs.

 

[Alithis]

They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, “You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the Lord’s assembly?” Numbers 16:3

You miss here that Moses was a picture and type of the coming Christ... The head over his body.
No man has that title .
But Jesus alone

 

[Alithis]

People are free to come up with different church structures, we don't disagree with that. But we find the structure we have acceptable and serving our needs.

And upon what is that stucture based and what need does it serve?
Gods or man's?

 

[FireDragon76]

And upon what is that stucture based and what need does it serve?
Gods or man's?

Well, we hope it serves man, because we believe in a God who serves us through his Word and Sacraments. It is an error to think that God is propitiated in any way through our worship. God does not need our worship, he doesn't get angry with us if we go to a different church, or none at all. That's silly, pagan thinking.

Perhaps you could stop being so polemical and painting the entire Christian world in broad generalizations.

 

[Alithis]

Well, we hope it serves man, because we believe in a God who serves us through his Word and Sacraments. It is an error to think that God is propitiated in any way through our worship. God does not need our worship, he doesn't get angry with us if we go to a different church, or none at all. That's silly, pagan thinking.

Perhaps you could stop being so polemical and painting the entire Christian world in broad generalizations.

im not painting the entire christian world in anything.
Just the sunday system of dominance and control.
Is it right just because you say its right.
Am i not allowed to obey scripture and test the spirits behind things.

Im aware of the histories around the thousands of murdered in times past for opposing that system ..
So how Godly is a system that saw fit to murder any who would not Submit to its dominance?
Seems to me it is right to question its motivations and theologies.
This is the controversial theology forum

Im saying the theology of church leadership is very controversial and must be examined.

 

[FireDragon76]

We don't believe in murdering anybody. Please cut out the gross generalizations and blaming. It's ugly and wrong.

If you want to have a house church, that is your business. We aren't against it.

 

[Alithis]

Religious Control over peoples is wrong and if the ones doing the controlling are also teaching falsehoods.. What is to be Done ?
But return to scripture and LOOK AGAIN.

Where for instance can communion ..a meal a breaking of bread together..be ONLY ministered to people via a person recognised by a select group of men ..
Upon what solids unambiguous scripture is that based?
Answer_ none. Its a man made rule to maintain dominance and control.

The very oppisite of Love

 

[Alithis]

We don't believe in murdering anybody. Please cut out the gross generalizations and blaming. It's ugly and wrong.

If you want to have a house church, that is your business. We aren't against it.

Sorry ....historical fact is just historical fact. Dont take it personally.

 

[Dave-W]

You miss here that Moses was a picture and type of the coming Christ... The head over his body.

And Moses set up captains of thousands, of hundreds and of tens.

You are forgetting that according to Eph 4, God gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, PASTORS and TEACHERS to build up His body.

We need that structure.

 

[Alithis]

And Moses set up captains of thousands, of hundreds and of tens.

You are forgetting that according to Eph 4, God gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, PASTORS and TEACHERS to build up His body.

We need that structure.

Yes ..to equip it all to the work.
Not to dominate it and stack it into buildings and make them fund the costs.

 

[Dave-W]

Religious Control over peoples is wrong

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes ..to equip it all to the work.
Not to dominate it and stack it into buildings and make them fund the costs.

You have a very narrowed and flawed view of church leadership.

 

[Alithis]

Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

Yes and why .... Read the why..

As ones who watch over souls
As ones who will answer to God.

Not as ones who watch over a business
Not as ones who dominate .

 

[Paidiske]

My experience suggests that it's much more complex than that.

What control the minister exercises (and this varies greatly from church to church) comes about because the whole body delegates that role to the minister. The authority of the minister is given and subsists in the authority of the church.

Control by one person of a body of individuals and their choices is abusive, plain and simple. But control over things like the mission of the church is necessary leadership.

At any rate, in my experience, it's far more common for ministers to be bullied by their congregations than the other way around...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Have you noticed the sharp rebuke that Simon Magus got in Acts 8. He offered money for the anointing.
I see a clear message in this - there should never have been renumeration for spiritual service. Support any person who lives sacrificially in service for Jesus but never for a wage. This immediately links the spiritual with the commercial. As Jesus demonstrated with anger in the temple there is no place for this.
This is such a fundamental and universal error in Church structure and leads to all manner of compromise. I fully support giving voluntarily to those fruitfully serving but the minute they are paid we have a business and that flies in the face of the heart of Love enjoyed by the early church in Acts. It is no wonder that the first 5 chapters of Acts are rarely preached because the message is not practiced.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes and why .... Read the why..

As ones who watch over souls
As ones who will answer to God.

Not as ones who watch over a business
Not as ones who dominate .

But you are lumping both together...