If you are Israel

shilohsfoal

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They are actually the same group. The church is both a sealed group called "Israel" and an innumerable multitude from every nation.

Revelation 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

And no one could learn that song but the 144,000.No one.

Theres a reason why ,that you have not learned.Untill you see the difference between these and the great multitude you will never understand what they witness.
You will,never understand thier song and why they can sing it and you can not.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I was unaware grammer nazis were here.
I will try to do better.
If you are going to take on Israel you should at least be confident in your message. Multiple typo's do not do justice to your claim. It shows irrational opinions based on a narrow knowledge of Revelation.
Blessings
 
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GingerBeer

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Seems several people on this board believe they are Israel and boast .If so,then tell us which one of these tribes you are of.
The tribe of Judah on one side of the family and it is believed the tribe of Levi on the other. The genealogy is in the gospel according to Matthew and the gospel according to Luke. our Father is, of course, God.
 
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shilohsfoal

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If you are going to take on Israel you should at least be confident in your message. Multiple typo's do not do justice to your claim. It shows irrational opinions based on a narrow knowledge of Revelation.
Blessings

Typos are msinly from vety large fingers and a very small phone.
Im sorty for the fingets God gave me.Plwae forgive me.

I will stop posting here so i do not offend you banymore
 
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Douggg

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Typos are msinly from vety large fingers and a very small phone.
Im sorty for the fingets God gave me.Plwae forgive me.

I will stop posting here so i do not offend you banymore
You are doing your post on a cell phone? You need to be given some slack for that.

I post using a regular computer, and I don't know how many times I have to go back and edit each post I make because of typos, grammar, wrong words, tenses, or I rethink how to say something,... so many mistakes I make.
________________________________________________________

Point being is that by virtue of becoming a Christian does not transfigure anyone into being Jews or Israel.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Typos are msinly from vety large fingers and a very small phone.
Im sorty for the fingets God gave me.Plwae forgive me.

I will stop posting here so i do not offend you banymore
Use a laptop. What you have posted is important. It also needs a lot of study and hermeneutics. Apocalyptic language is not easily understood.
Blessings
 
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shilohsfoal

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Use a laptop. What you have posted is important. It also needs a lot of study and hermeneutics. Apocalyptic language is not easily understood.
Blessings

Maybe i will have a laptop somedsy.Untill then.Goodbye.
 
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Hank77

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I didnt say commonwealth of Israrl .
I said ISRAEL.

If you dont claim to be Israel,then this thread is not addressing you.
The Commonwealth of Israel, is the Israel of the promise, the promise made to Abraham.
Christians are not saying that they are ethic Israel.
 
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Ecclesiastian

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Point being is that by virtue of becoming a Christian does not transfigure anyone into being Jews or Israel.
It does not physically transfigure us into a person of Semitic descent, no. However Paul makes clear in the 2nd chapter of Romans that being a Jew outwardly (racially) doesn't make one a "true Jew", rather believing the Gospel and circumcising the heart does. Therefore just because someone is a physical Jew, and has a tribe, doesn't mean anything in the eyes of God. Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel (the olive tree), and only those Jews who believe in Christ are truly Jewish from a Pauline standpoint. Jew and Greek are both the seed of Abraham when in Christ, and are one olive tree.
 
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Jonaitis

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So you claim God made a covenant with your fathers?
Who were your fathers?

I'm not Jewish, if that is what you are asking.

Although, Scriptures does say that Abraham is my forefather in the faith, heir of his eternal promises in Christ.
 
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jgr

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Revelation 14:3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. And no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

And no one could learn that song but the 144,000.No one.

Theres a reason why ,that you have not learned.Untill you see the difference between these and the great multitude you will never understand what they witness.
You will,never understand thier song and why they can sing it and you can not.

Every ransomed child of God, from both the Old Testament and the New, can sing it.

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:
Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and oneness are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. (Revelation 14:3). They follow Christ wherever He goes. (Revelation 14:4) Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.
 
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david shelby

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Seems several people on this board believe they are Israel and boast .If so,then tell us which one of these tribes you are of.I myself would be interested iin the song you sing .

So which tribe are you from?

That's like asking: What tribe are converts to Judaism of? Its an invalid question.

Edit: And yet, if you follow Paul's logic, i.e. Christ being the singular seed of Abraham and Christians being of the seed of Abraham by virtue of being "in Christ," i.e. in the singular seed of Abraham, then since Jesus is of the tribe of Judah, Christians are all of the tribe of Judah. And by that Pauline logic, Even Paul, who was born of the tribe of Benjamin, by getting "in Christ" switched to being of the tribe of Judah.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I didnt say commonwealth of Israrl .
I said ISRAEL.

If you dont claim to be Israel,then this thread is not addressing you.
Define your view of Israel.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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The Children of Promise are counted for the seed(Romans 9:6,8). The 144,00 are those with pure doctrine given the seal of God during the slaughter of Ezekiel nine which takes place first within the Church of God and is the first Anti-typical harvest of the first wave sheaf offering(first fruits of the Lord-first living harvest).

I am a Child of the Promise of Faith counted as the seed of Abraham. To which tribe I am assigned(if I be counted worthy to be part of the First harvest/first fruits and not the second) is up to the Lord.
 
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keras

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Revelation shows they are not the same.
First there are 12,000 from each twelve tribes of Israel sealed with Gods name in thier foreheads.

Then there appears a great multitude from every nation,and tongue.

John did not see them as one group.He specificly detailed the first 144,000 ,then described the great multitude.
Wrong.
Jesus stands on Mt Zion and selects the 144k from out of the great multitude. Revelation 14:1-5
All of Revelation chapter 7 is describing earthly scenes. It is 'rapture' rubbish to think that the vast multitude of Christians are in heaven, nowhere does Rev 7 , or anywhere else in the Bible say we go to live in heaven.
 
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Dave L

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The 144,000 were from Israel; the innumerable multitude from all nations. Because of this comparison—144,000 from Israel on one hand, and an innumerable multitude of converts from among the Gentiles on the other—it seems clear that the 144,000 were converts from Israel, Israel in the literal sense of the word.

Ralph Woodrow. His Truth is Marching On.
 
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