How would the position of no end of the world be classified?

[david shelby]

The bible is a puzzle some portions of the Old Testament were simply types of the Fulfillment to come, and some directly speak of the Latter days or the end of days. The Whole book of Micah(as with the other prophetic books:Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Obidiah, Zechariah, Etc) is not all about one subject the book covers a range of subjects and times and prophecy's to be fulfilled. We see a change from an immediate prophecy(to be fulfilled soon there after) to a end of days prophecy in micah 4 and 5 when we are told that these next things to be spoken of will occur in the last days(of the earth).
Micah 4:
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

KJV "But in the last days it shall come to pass,"

NKJV "Now it shall come to pass in the latter days"

NRSV "In days to come"

This is the danger of any kind of one-translation-onlyism.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

KJV "But in the last days it shall come to pass,"

NKJV "Now it shall come to pass in the latter days"

NRSV "In days to come"

This is the danger of any kind of one-translation-onlyism.

Only one translation of any given passage can be right. KJV is the Closes to the Original greek and therefore is the Closest to the true and pure word of God.
This is the Correct translation.
"But in the last days it shall come to pass,"

 

[david shelby]

Only one translation of any given passage can be right. KJV is the Closes to the Original greek and therefore is the Closest to the true and pure word of God.
This is the Correct translation.
"But in the last days it shall come to pass,"

I think "latter" is correct here, not "last." Which means both the NKJV and NRSV are right, and KJV is wrong, in this case.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I think "latter" is correct here, not "last." Which means both the NKJV and NRSV are right, and KJV is wrong, in this case.

That would be personal opinion there brother. Now I'm sure there have been dozens of Greek scholars far more proficient than I or you that would lend weight to both your belief in NKJV and my belief in KJV. But all that will come of discussing this or that word(or this or that translation) will be strife of words, from which we are told to remove ourselves from. So may the Lord bless and guide you to the truth and light of his word brother.

God bless you

 

[david shelby]

That would be personal opinion there brother. Now I'm sure there have been dozens of Greek scholars far more proficient than I or you that would lend weight to both your belief in NKJV and my belief in KJV. But all that will come of discussing this or that word(or this or that translation) will be strife of words, from which we are told to remove ourselves from. So may the Lord bless and guide you to the truth and light of his word brother.

God bless you

Its not Greek but Hebrew in this case, but in any case, the very statement being made negates the interpretation of it being the last days, logically. Because if in the last days people flow into the mountain of the Lords house and continue therein, days are continuing, so those were no longer the "last" days, were they? So only latter even makes any sense. There can't really be such a thing as "last days" and then more days coming after, much less more years, or decades, and yet, this passage clearly views it that much time comes after these days, hence its "latter" not "last."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

KJV "But in the last days it shall come to pass,"
NKJV "Now it shall come to pass in the latter days"
NRSV "In days to come"
This is the danger of any kind of one-translation-onlyism.

Best to look at different bible versions.

For example, type "latter days" into a concordance search.
I favor this one and like YLT, but it has the option to look different versions.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

latter days (YLT)

Gen 49:1
And Jacob calleth unto his sons and saith,
'Be gathered together, and I declare to you that which doth happen with you in the latter end of the days.

Mic 4:1
And it hath come to pass, In the latter end of the days, The mount of the house of Jehovah Is established above the top of the mounts,
And it hath been lifted up above the hills, And flowed unto it have peoples.

Dan 10:14
“Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.”
===================================
2Pe 3:3
this first knowing, that there shall come in the latter end of the days scoffers, according to their own desires going on,

.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Its not Greek but Hebrew in this case, but in any case, the very statement being made negates the interpretation of it being the last days, logically. Because if in the last days people flow into the mountain of the Lords house and continue therein, days are continuing, so those were no longer the "last" days, were they? So only latter even makes any sense. There can't really be such a thing as "last days" and then more days coming after, much less more years, or decades, and yet, this passage clearly views it that much time comes after these days, hence its "latter" not "last."

Brother, both the greek and hebrew use the term last days. It means there will be set period of time when the people of God will flee to the valley of mountain(in the last days, which days are for years in prophecy-Days as a year: Ez 4:6, Num 14:34) they will stay there until the last hour and Christ's return. From this knowledge we can rightly divide the word to understand that "the Last days" is an accurate translation.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Its not Greek but Hebrew in this case, but in any case, the very statement being made negates the interpretation of it being the last days, logically. Because if in the last days people flow into the mountain of the Lords house and continue therein, days are continuing, so those were no longer the "last" days, were they? So only latter even makes any sense. There can't really be such a thing as "last days" and then more days coming after, much less more years, or decades, and yet, this passage clearly views it that much time comes after these days, hence its "latter" not "last."

In Daniel we also find more evidence that there will indeed be a time of the end. Or rather an end times. At the conclusion of which Christ will return.
Daniel 12:4
4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[david shelby]

In Daniel we also find more evidence that there will indeed be a time of the end. Or rather an end times. At the conclusion of which Christ will return.
Daniel 12:4
4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

If that end hasn't taken place yet we wouldn't have the book of Daniel because Daniel was told to hide and seal the book (i.e. scroll in actuality), to seal the scroll in a tube, and not publish it until that end had taken place. So the end spoken of there took place already, and the fact that the book has been published and we have it shows that. So "the end" under discussion there is the end of the Babylonian captivity.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

If that end hasn't taken place yet we wouldn't have the book of Daniel because Daniel was told to hide and seal the book (i.e. scroll in actuality), to seal the scroll in a tube, and not publish it until that end had taken place. So the end spoken of there took place already, and the fact that the book has been published and we have it shows that. So "the end" under discussion there is the end of the Babylonian captivity.

Brother the words were shut up in their understanding until the end of Days not physically hidden. All the mystery of the Prophesies of Daniel were hidden until the end of Days as the Lord commanded.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

 

[david shelby]

Brother the words were shut up in their understanding until the end of Days not physically hidden.

That explanation makes no sense to me, specifically because to shut up the book is a command to Daniel for him to do it, not something that its said that God will do.

Per verse 4, "But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end."

Unless Daniel is some great sorecer, then he has not cast a spell over all the world to hide the understanding of the book from us for thousands of years. Rather, the command was for him to wait and not publish the book until after "the end" that was under discussion, i.e. until after Babylon fell.

As to verse 13, "you shall rise for your reward at the end of the days," it means he would be among those who would return to Israel after the Babylonian captivity ended.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

That explanation makes no sense to me, specifically because to shut up the book is a command to Daniel for him to do it, not something that its said that God will do.

Per verse 4, "But you, Daniel, keep the words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end."

Unless Daniel is some great sorecer, then he has not cast a spell over all the world to hide the understanding of the book from us for thousands of years. Rather, the command was for him to wait and not publish the book until after "the end" that was under discussion, i.e. until after Babylon fell.

As to verse 13, "you shall rise for your reward at the end of the days," it means he would be among those who would return to Israel after the Babylonian captivity ended.

verse four must be paired with these verses to gain a full understanding of what is being said.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

The Lord told him when he asked for understanding of the words spoken to go thy way because the words are closed until the time of the end. The understanding(what Daniel asked for) was closed up until the end. That is the clear reading of scripture brother. The Lord even tells him that he will rest(die and sleep in the dust of the earth, the rest spoken of earlier in the chapter) before he will stand in his lot at the end of days.

 

[david shelby]

verse four must be paired with these verses to gain a full understanding of what is being said.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

The Lord told him when he asked for understanding of the words spoken to go thy way because the words are closed until the time of the end. The understanding(what Daniel asked for) was closed up until the end. That is the clear reading of scripture brother. The Lord even tells him that he will rest(die and sleep in the dust of the earth, the rest spoken of earlier in the chapter) before he will stand in his lot at the end of days.

I don't think "go your way, and rest" can mean "go and die." Again, because its a commandment, not just a statement. He is telling him to do it by volition. So I would interpret it like "go your way, and rest (your mind)" because he told him to seal the book until the end, and once the end happens and he can unseal the book, then he will understand.

 

[parousia70]

They are resting in the Grave till Christ's return as Scripture says.

What scripture says that???

The scripture YOU POSTED says they get their rest from that persecution “when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels“

You disagree??

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

What scripture says that???

The scripture YOU POSTED says they get their rest from that persecution “when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels“

You disagree??

It says they will rest with the Apostles(who did not live to see the Lord's return with fire). The Lord we are told will return in that day of fire and vengeance(spoken of -Revelation 20), this has not yet occurred so we see from a clear reading of Scripture that it is speaking of the Lord's coming on the Last day.
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

We see that all the saints who were killed for Christ sake still asleep(being woken up then being put back to sleep by God after being clothed in white), in Revelation 6:
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I don't think "go your way, and rest" can mean "go and die." Again, because its a commandment, not just a statement. He is telling him to do it by volition. So I would interpret it like "go your way, and rest (your mind)" because he told him to seal the book until the end, and once the end happens and he can unseal the book, then he will understand.

It says go on thy way and thou shalt rest(it doesn't imply any choice in the matter, but stating a fact).
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

It states a fact after first giving command to go his way. That he shall rest until the end to then stand in his lot at the end of Days is another statement and not a command.

 

[parousia70]

It says they will rest with the Apostles(who did not live to see the Lord's return with fire). The Lord we are told will return in that day of fire and vengeance(spoken of -Revelation 20), this has not yet occurred so we see from a clear reading of Scripture that it is speaking of the Lord's coming on the Last day.

Yet, again, you must completely change the meaning of this passage to make your view work:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

The 1st-century Thessalonains were being actually, literally persecuted by actual, literal 1st-century persecutors. Paul says those actual persecutors will go through tribulation, which requires them to still be alive, and Paul also states that the faithful will get rest from that persecution :
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Not before... not after, but WHEN. Which, again, requires them to still be alive, if we are to take this passage literally.

Your view can't have this passage mean what it literally means. You have to alter the meaning to fit your view.

I recommend altering your view to fit the scripture.

 

[DennisTate]

How would the position that there will be no end of the world be classified? Idealism? Is there another term?

Like if someone went with Ecclesiastes 1:4 "Generations comes and generations go, but the earth remains forever." And such-like passages in the Psalms like Psalm 104:5 "Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."

Is this "idealism"? Because if someone took those passages in the Old Testament correct as stated, they'd have to allegorize away all claims to there being such a thing as "the last day" in the literal sense of a last day of earth, or an end of time like an angel standing and saying "Time shall be no more."

I believe in the fulfillment of all that is written in the Law and the Prophets and what was shown to a near death experiencer about what G-d wishes to work out by the year 2185 sure fits with many verses in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets.

Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.



The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.



And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.



There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.



What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.



People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.



Animals lived with people, in harmony.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Yet, again, you must completely change the meaning of this passage to make your view work:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

The 1st-century Thessalonains were being actually, literally persecuted by actual, literal 1st-century persecutors. Paul says those actual persecutors will go through tribulation, which requires them to still be alive, and Paul also states that the faithful will get rest from that persecution :
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Not before... not after, but WHEN. Which, again, requires them to still be alive, if we are to take this passage literally.

Your view can't have this passage mean what it literally means. You have to alter the meaning to fit your view.

I recommend altering your view to fit the scripture.

I changed nothing brother I read it just as it was written. Well we see that the souls of them which were persecuted under the alter are still calling for their blood to be avenged. So we can clearly see that the Lord did not come and exact vengeance yet as described in Thessalonians. The view that is clearly written in scripture the one that I hold, it literally means exactly as it reads and I have shown you how it reads by comparing it to rest of scripture comparing the word of God with the word of God and letting scripture interpret scripture.

I recommend that you pray and study the word of God and let yourself be open to having the Spirit of God show you the truth of his word brother.

 

[parousia70]

I changed nothing brother I read it just as it was written. Well we see that the souls of them which were persecuted under the alter are still calling for their blood to be avenged. So we can clearly see that the Lord did not come and exact vengeance yet as described in Thessalonians. The view that is clearly written in scripture the one that I hold, it literally means exactly as it reads and I have shown you how it reads by comparing it to rest of scripture comparing the word of God with the word of God and letting scripture interpret scripture.

So they are NOT at this time at rest then?

You said they were.

Which is it? you seem to be all over the map on this.

They would have to NOT be at rest at this moment and still suffering from their persecution at the hands of their persecutors RIGHT NOW if The Lord has not yet avenged them, if we read the passage LITERALLY and accept it at face value.

I recommend that you pray and study the word of God and let yourself be open to having the Spirit of God show you the truth of his word brother.