"j"esus culture and hillsong apostates

[Gregory Thompson]

Yeah, total heretic. This is how it works. They mix in their own false doctrines among what's sound. They twist it, invert it, and make it their own.

We must be careful what we listen to. Demonic doctrines are like a virus.

However, we must understand the full teaching of the bible.

20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Which means, I can take away the good stuff, and throw away the stuff that is bad.

In regards to infection, it is important to note that the parable likens the kingdom to leaven, not the loaf. If what is perceived as "the kingdom" is being leavened, it may have also been impure.

 

[Romans 8]

Here’s the Bethel Church’s statement of faith. What do you disagree with in this?

What We Believe
There is only one true God who is the eternal King, Creator and Redeemer of all that is. He is perfectly holy, just, loving and truthful. He has revealed Himself to be eternally self-existent – one being in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

The Bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.

Humankind was created in the image of God to know and enjoy Him yet we willfully rejected the Lordship and glory of God for which we were intended. Because of this, sickness, death and judgment entered the world and now creation experiences the effects and consequences of sin.

The Lord Jesus Christ, the one and only Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin, Mary, and is God's Anointed One, empowered by the Holy Spirit to inaugurate God's kingdom on earth. He was crucified for our sins, died, was buried, resurrected and ascended into heaven, and is now alive today in the presence of God the Father and in His people. He is "true God" and "true man."



We are saved by God's grace, through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Anyone can be restored to fellowship with God through repenting, believing and receiving Jesus as their Savior and Lord. The Holy Spirit, convicts, regenerates, justifies, and adopts us as we enter the kingdom of God as His sons and daughters.

In the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live holy and minister supernaturally. The baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 1:4-8 and 2:4 is poured out on believers that they might have power to be witnesses.

The victorious redemptive work of Christ on the cross provides freedom from the power of the enemy – sin, lies, sickness and torment.

The Church consists of all who put their faith in Jesus Christ. He gave His church the ordinances of baptism and communion. The Church exists to carry on the ministry of Jesus Christ and further advance His kingdom by undoing the works of the enemy, preaching and living the good news of God's love, and discipling the nations – baptizing and teaching them to love and obey God.

In the ever-increasing government of God and in the Blessed Hope, which is the glorious visible return of our Lord Jesus Christ for His overcoming bride – His church. Heaven and hell are real places. There will be a resurrection of the saved and the lost, the one to everlasting life and the other to everlasting death

About | Bethel Church

This has already been addressed. Read through the thread please.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Here’s the Bethel Church’s statement of faith. What do you disagree with in this?

We're disagreeing with teachers, statements of faith make good kindling, actions speak louder.

 

[DamianWarS]

Did you not bother to even watch the video I shared? See, this is the problem, I and many others do share information and it is simply scoffed at, excused and or rejected. People just don’t want to question these revered teachers and preachers who have been placed on a pedestal and elevated beyond Biblical reason.

Your choice.

I missed the post but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I get the aversion to the content of the video but I'm just not at that place to start waving my pitchfork. It does seem a little out there to say Christ asks for forgiveness but the meat of what he (Seth?) seems to be saying is if he doesn't forgive someone he is holding that offence on Christ and that part I get.

It feels like a swinging pendulum and he opens with the pendulum swinging way out there perhaps as some sort of dramatic effect but the last min the pendulum seems to come back in when he says things like "holding it aginst them is like holding it against [Christ]" using this line as the real point it helps to balance everything else he said, to me perhaps Christ saying "forgive me" feels more tongue and cheek and is like saying "you are being held back from this unforgiveness that ultimately is projected on me, hurry up and forgive me and get on with it" These seem like fairly personal words and obviously very experience oriented but I'm not sure it warrants heresy and it feels most may be taking these words out of context.

 

[Romans 8]

I missed the post but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I get the aversion to the content of the video but I'm just not at that place to start waving my pitchfork. It does seem a little out there to say Christ asks for forgiveness but the meat of what he (Seth?) seems to be saying is if he doesn't forgive someone he is holding that offence on Christ and that part I get.

It feels like a swinging pendulum and he opens with the pendulum swinging way out there perhaps as some sort of dramatic effect but the last min the pendulum seems to come back in when he says things like "holding it aginst them is like holding it against [Christ]" using this line as the real point it helps to balance everything else he said, to me perhaps Christ saying "forgive me" feels more tongue and cheek and is like saying "you are being held back from this unforgiveness that ultimately is projected on me, hurry up and forgive me and get on with it" These seem like fairly personal words and obviously very experience oriented but I'm not sure it warrants heresy and it feels most may be taking these words out of context.

And this is the exact issue I have with these bands, Bethel church, and Bill Johnson. Many people either cannot dicipher between a false doctrine, or they justify it in their own head in order to "continue as they were".

Next this person is telling others in his social circle, this forum, and at his church what he learned. This is how it works.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

And this is the exact issue I have with these bands, Bethel church, and Bill Johnson. Many people either cannot dicipher between a false doctrine, or they justify it in their own head in order to "continue as they were".

Next this person is telling others in his social circle, this forum, and at his church what he learned. This is how it works.

The thing is, people who rely on being spoodfed miss out on eternal rewards and end up being directed by those who put the work in. It would be nice if people were more diligent in their studies, but until God puts that desire there, it's not going to happen.

 

[Romans 8]

The thing is, people who rely on being spoodfed miss out on eternal rewards and end up being directed by those who put the work in. It would be nice if people were more diligent in their studies, but until God puts that desire there, it's not going to happen.

Agree. People who do not like reading their bibles, need to pray for the Holy Spirit to give them desire.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Agree. People who do not like reading their bibles, need to pray for the Holy Spirit to give them desire.

And anyone praying for others to be given that desire better start clearing out their schedule now.

 

[BNR32FAN]

A quick google search will show you. Read above, they are no longer affiliated with any denominational church. Why? Because their doctrines are wayyyy off the map.

I’ve posted Bethel church’s statement of faith exactly what doctrines are you referring to?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The main deal is application. Application of a false teaching can strengthen the flesh and it's paranormal capacity which mimicks actual spiritual gifts.

 

[RDKirk]

Sadly, most Christians don't know enough of the Bible to make the right discernment and this includes Pastors (or they may know, just don't want to offend its members)

Or they know enough to be able to eat meat.

 

[Romans 8]

The main deal is application. Application of a false teaching can strengthen the flesh and it's paranormal capacity which mimicks actual spiritual gifts.

I think counterfeit gifts are demonic rather than of the flesh. As you can see in Bethel's "slaying of the spirit", and holy laughter (cackling) while incapacitated.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It was formerly affiliated with, meaning no longer affiliated with.

What teachers actually teach from this movement seems more relevant than a strawman statement that they're not affiliated with.

The statement of faith I posted was from Hillsong Church wiki showing what they believe now not what they believed before. Here’s a link

Hillsong Church - Wikipedia

 

[DamianWarS]

And this is the exact issue I have with these bands, Bethel church, and Bill Johnson. Many people either cannot dicipher between a false doctrine, or they justify it in their own head in order to "continue as they were".

Next this person is telling others in his social circle, this forum, and at his church what he learned. This is how it works.

I'm just not at that place from watching a 3 min video. I don't follow Bethel so I don't know how responsible their teaching is but if that 3 min video is the culmination of their error then the argument might be a little overstated. the OP makes a lot of claims without sources, I'm just asking for the sources for each point of the OP. These are serious issues that can't just be left as remarks on an internet forum.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think counterfeit gifts are demonic rather than of the flesh. As you can see in Bethel's "slaying of the spirit", and holy laughter (cackling) while incapacitated.

I spent a number of years amongst new age people just to see what the body can accomplish without the Holy Spirit, or the influence of another spirit. It's actually quite amazing what the body is capable of. I would caution to not jump to the conclusion of the demonic until it is confirmed in each individual case.

For example, in the videos I watched, I could see evidence of a "magic atmosphere" but no demon.

What the danger of a magic atmosphere is that it preps the body to be habitable for a demon.

I understand the danger, but jumping the gun can sometimes make matters worse.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The statement of faith I posted was from Hillsong Church wiki showing what they believe now not what they believed before. Here’s a link

Hillsong Church - Wikipedia

Yeah, other denominations do this all the time. Directing attention from actual teaching individuals with the statement of faith. Just because it's posted on a website, doesn't make it true.

 

[amariselle]

I missed the post but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I get the aversion to the content of the video but I'm just not at that place to start waving my pitchfork. It does seem a little out there to say Christ asks for forgiveness but the meat of what he (Seth?) seems to be saying is if he doesn't forgive someone he is holding that offence on Christ and that part I get.

It feels like a swinging pendulum and he opens with the pendulum swinging way out there perhaps as some sort of dramatic effect but the last min the pendulum seems to come back in when he says things like "holding it aginst them is like holding it against [Christ]" using this line as the real point it helps to balance everything else he said, to me perhaps Christ saying "forgive me" feels more tongue and cheek and is like saying "you are being held back from this unforgiveness that ultimately is projected on me, hurry up and forgive me and get on with it" These seem like fairly personal words and obviously very experience oriented but I'm not sure it warrants heresy and it feels most may be taking these words out of context.

If you’re not able to see the heretical claim of Jesus asking anyone for forgiveness for what it plainly is, then you most certainly will have problems seeing the much more subtle, yet just as poisonous teachings of Bethel.

You need to understand, Seth Dahl absolutely claimed this was a personal “encounter/vision” of Jesus Himself. Jesus is not to blame for the failings of any person, period. There is no Biblical justification for claiming that Jesus needs to be forgiven for the hurt other people have caused us.

You are trying to make his statements alright and they are not. To teach others that Jesus came to you asking for forgiveness for the sins and shortcomings of human beings is heretical blasphemy. God does not sin and there is no fault in Him. These people have no fear of the Lord and they have “another Jesus.”

 

[Romans 8]

I'm just not at that place from watching a 3 min video. I don't follow Bethel so I don't know how responsible their teaching is but if that 3 min video is the culmination of their error then the argument might be a little overstated. the OP makes a lot of claims without sources, I'm just asking for the sources for each point of the OP. These are serious issues that can't just be left as remarks on an internet forum.

I appreciate your concern but there are links posted throughout the thread that deal with many of the claims made. I am under no obligation to provide any links as I am not writing a book here, it's simply a discussion. I would recommend people familiarize themselves with these false teachers, just enough to know who they are so they may stay away from them.

 

[amariselle]

I'm just not at that place from watching a 3 min video. I don't follow Bethel so I don't know how responsible their teaching is but if that 3 min video is the culmination of their error then the argument might be a little overstated. the OP makes a lot of claims without sources, I'm just asking for the sources for each point of the OP. These are serious issues that can't just be left as remarks on an internet forum.

You can rest assured it’s about much more than one three minute video. The information is out there for those who really want to know.

 

[Romans 8]

The statement of faith I posted was from Hillsong Church wiki showing what they believe now not what they believed before. Here’s a link

Hillsong Church - Wikipedia

Maybe dial in the actual paragraph you are referring to. But as it's been stated all through the thread...hillsong is affiliated (edit) with Bethel church.