The date of great tribulation

shilohsfoal

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The daily sacrifice was ended by Antiochus Epiphanes during the Maccabean revolt. He was the "horn" that moved toward Egypt but then turned back to attack Israel.

See I Maccabees.

Im not led by pharisee doctrin.I do not follow the blind.
 
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Douggg

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What's the great tribulation?
Welcome to this forum, SandwichBoy.

The great tribulation is a period of hard times, the hardest in the history of the world, that will take place right before Jesus returns to this earth to end it. And to take control of ruling the world so it will never happen again.

In Matthew 24:15-51, Jesus talks about it.

Of those passages, here is the verse where the term "great tribulation" actually appears.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 
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shilohsfoal

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How do "the saints know and understand" the date to be 3 1/2 years before it comes? Three and a one-half years was the time of Elijah's famine. Therefore, as in the Book of Revelation, it probably is a symbolic number. Jesus' prophecy along with many OT prophecies has direct and deeper meanings. The direct meaning deals with the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 40 years (note the beginning of the chapter), while the deeper meaning refers to Jesus' second coming, when there will be great unrest (now?). I prefer to be a "pan-millennialist." It'll all pan out. I prefer to think about the great hope we have that Jesus, when he comes, will create our resurrection bodies and a new universe.

The saints in Israel will know the exact date the abomination of desolation will be placed exactly 1290 before it takes place.

Daniel 12:11 NIV: "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Only those who believe in Christ and his testimony that the abomination of desolation is a end time event will be paying attention to daniels prophecy.

Daniel 12:10 NIV: Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

Those in Israel who have been misled by the testimony of the pharisees (macabees and josephus)will not understand what is taking place and will be caught unaware.
 
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shilohsfoal

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What pharisee doctrine are you talking about?

That Antiochus placed the abomination of desolation.

We know this by the pharisee Josephus who became a pharisee at the age of 19 and taught thier interpretations and doctrins.He was a pharisee through and through.
 
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ewq1938

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Peter and Paul were both executed for their faith. Those are but two examples of the persecution of Christians during that time.


Christians have always been persecuted but Ad70 had nothing to do with Christians and thus nothing to do with what Christ said about the GT in Matthew 24.
 
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SandwichBoy

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Welcome to this forum, SandwichBoy.

The great tribulation is a period of hard times, the hardest in the history of the world, that will take place right before Jesus returns to this earth to end it. And to take control of ruling the world so it will never happen again.

In Matthew 24:15-51, Jesus talks about it.

Of those passages, here is the verse where the term "great tribulation" actually appears.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Is He not referring to the 7 year war between the Jews and the Romans?
 
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Douggg

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Is He not referring to the 7 year war between the Jews and the Romans?
No, it is end times, this generation.

Differently, there are a segment in Christianity called partial preterists who hold most of the prophecies Jesus talked about were fulfilled back in the first century around 70 Ad.

If you are new to eschatology, there are three trains of thought:
partial preterists
historists
futurists.

I am a futurist. Which mean the bulk of the prophecies are still to be fulfilled.
 
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Monk Brendan

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If that happens after the Tribulation and the Lord's coming in glory - who would populate the Millennium?

Perhaps you reject that there is a Millennial reign of Christ as well. What a surprise that would be.:rolleyes:
There is no such thing as an earthly millennial reign of Christ.

If you read the passage carefully, you will see that this reign takes place in heaven, not on earth.

Furthermore, every other time the Bible mentions 1000 years, it is clear we should not understand this in a fallen human way.
 
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ewq1938

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Is He not referring to the 7 year war between the Jews and the Romans?


It wasn't really 7 years as it was over in Ad70, there were just some rebels hiding out that were eventually killed off or died from suicide but the Roman's were in control by Ad70.
 
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shilohsfoal

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There is no such thing as an earthly millennial reign of Christ.

If you read the passage carefully, you will see that this reign takes place in heaven, not on earth.

Furthermore, every other time the Bible mentions 1000 years, it is clear we should not understand this in a fallen human way.
This thread has nothing to do with the 1000 years reign of Christ on earth.Please stick witu the topic or make your own,thread.
 
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HTacianas

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Christians have always been persecuted but Ad70 had nothing to do with Christians and thus nothing to do with what Christ said about the GT in Matthew 24.

There was endless persecutions of Christians in those days. Even the writer of the Revelation was exiled to a penal colony for spreading the gospel. He even states that he and his audience have been experiencing "tribulation".

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Rev 1:9 - I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
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ewq1938

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There is no such thing as an earthly millennial reign of Christ.

If you read the passage carefully, you will see that this reign takes place in heaven, not on earth.


It's not in heaven. It is very much upon the Earth.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And this Earthly rule doesn't even start until Christ returns to the Earth:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.


Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Again, the nations will be ruled over. This depicts the second coming and it states "he shall rule them" which is future tense. It doesn't begin until Christ defeats the beast and FP who these nations currently are ruled over. Again, both passages support the rule over the nations starting after the return of Christ. Nothing supports that ending when Christ returns.
 
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ewq1938

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There was endless persecutions of Christians in those days.

Yes we all know that but there is a time coming when it's going to get worse and much more broad spread. In the gospels Christ says that particular period of time is worse than ever before and it ends with his second coming and angels gathering the elect. That hasn't happened so the period of tribulation he spoke of hasn't happened not to mention he also said one generation would witness the tribulation and second coming.
 
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Unnamed Guy

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That chapter is not about the Roman's taking back Jerusalem and they controlled Jerusalem much longer than 42 months anyways. Matthew 24 speaks of Christians being targeted bu the one we commonly call the AC. His discourse ends with his own second coming and he states one generation would see all of the things he spoke of, from the starting events to the ending event known as the second coming. Since the second coming didn't happen in AD70, nor a Christian persecution, Ad70 is not compatible with the OD.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

False Christ's are warned about.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

"Ye" are Christians.

So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.

Ephesians 3:4-7 King James Version (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Jesus knew nothing of the Christian church. He was a Jew speaking to Jews about Jewish concerns.
 
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JacksBratt

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The exact date of the beginni,g of great tribulation is given to the saints three and a half years in advance.The exact date those in judea flee to the mountains.
Do you have scripture to back this up? Who are the "saints" and what period of time are you talking about?
 
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ewq1938

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