The date of great tribulation

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,578
7,775
63
Martinez
✟894,261.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Could you not comprehend the question?

It sounds like you want to teach something but you dont listen.Lets try again.
According to the prophecy in Daniel.The millitary of the gentiles occupy Jerusalem for 42 months.
At the beginning of thr occupation the daily sacrifice is abolished and 42 months later the abomination that causes desolation is set up.

So if you are claiming the abominationof desolation was placed in 70 ad then the romans only occupied jerusalem starting in 66ad.That would have been,the year the daily sacrifice was abolished.Can you prove the daily sacrifce was abolished in 66 ad?

Can you answer the question?
Jesus Christ of Nazareth put an end to the daily sacrifice. He made it of no effect as He was the last and "perfect sacrifice". He has made the sanctuary desolate. God no longer dwells in that temple. Subsequently He destroyed it in 70 AD. All has been fulfilled. There is no interruption in the 70 weeks of Daniel. All has been fulfilled. The fulfilled interpretation is the correct view; that the 69 weeks measured "unto Messiah"; that in the midst of the 70th week after three and a half years of ministry—he was cut off in death; that this sacrifice, being the perfect sacrifice, caused other sacrifices to cease in God' s plan.
AMEN!
Blessings

PS: Desolation means "a state of bleak and dismal emptiness". The Jews rejected Christ and were an abomination to God. He left their temple empty. His face does not shine.
"Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: trulytheone
Upvote 0

shilohsfoal

Jacks or better to open
Jan 3, 2011
2,891
492
✟73,277.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
You may want to study other interpretations. What you are speaking of already took place in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem. Your view is futurist. Look into the partial Preterist view, you may be surprised how clear things look from that perspective.
Blessings

https://www.preteristarchive.com/Modern/1971_woodrow_matthew-24.html

Ive already studied much of it but have found that to be a false teaching.
According to the prophecy of Daniel the daily sacrifice is abolished three and a half years before the abomination of desolation is placed.According to eye witness accounts ,the sacrifices were not abolished in 66ad and therefore the abomination that causes desolation was also not set up in 70 ad.
In fact the more you study the abomination that causrs desolation,the more this fact is known.
 
Upvote 0

shilohsfoal

Jacks or better to open
Jan 3, 2011
2,891
492
✟73,277.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Jesus Christ of Nazareth put an end to the daily sacrifice. He made it of no effect as He was the last and "perfect sacrifice". He has made the sanctuary desolate. God no longer dwells in that temple. Subsequently He destroyed it in 70 AD. All has been fulfilled. There is no interruption in the 70 weeks of Daniel. All has been fulfilled. The fulfilled interpretation is the correct view; that the 69 weeks measured "unto Messiah"; that in the midst of the 70th week after three and a half years of ministry—he was cut off in death; that this sacrifice, being the perfect sacrifice, caused other sacrifices to cease in God' s plan.
AMEN!
Blessings

Sp you believe now that the Roman Titus,whos millitary destroyed a building in,Jerusalem is in fact Jesus?

Or are you saying John who Josephus said stop sacrificing in Jerusalem is Jesus?

History just doesnt support the claims you are making.
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,578
7,775
63
Martinez
✟894,261.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sp you believe now that the Roman Titus,whos millitary destroyed a building in,Jerusalem is in fact Jesus?

Or are you saying John who Josephus said stop sacrificing in Jerusalem is Jesus?
If you already studied it and found it false, I will not convince you otherwise. Jesus Christ of Nazareth fulfilled the 70 weeks.
Blessings
 
Upvote 0

Brian Mcnamee

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2017
2,308
1,294
64
usa
✟213,965.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The U.N. is not in the news. The EU is. The EU parliament building looks like this... What could possibly be in their minds to come up with patterning after the tower of babel. It's crazy.

th
I agree with you about the EU but the structure for the system of government is the UN with the IMF and world bank. The EU is not rising they are heading towards a global collapse like the rest of the nations. The beast does not get power over the earth until the middle of the week. Which follows the seal judgments that come on all the earth. The beast has authority over every tribe tongue kindred and nation. The EU is one of the 10 and the other nations are in this counsel too. Fakers of the lost ark
The one world financial system is already plotted out. A pretty sharp guy named Martin ARmstrong is an economic forecaster who has a computer model that has a food track record and he is not Biblically influenced and he sees the IMF bringing about a one world currency.

The Coming One World Currency | Armstrong Economics

There are many more voices on this topic.
 
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That happens AFTER the Tribulation when Jesus comes as glory as Judge.
If that happens after the Tribulation and the Lord's coming in glory - who would populate the Millennium?

Perhaps you reject that there is a Millennial reign of Christ as well. What a surprise that would be.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Since the saints know and understand the date the abomination of desolation is set up about three and a half years before it is set up,why would any saint want to flee with all of the wicked people who have been caught off guard and that day has caught them unaware as those who were caught off guard by the flood?
The believers in that 7 year period are relatively new since all others were raptured before that time.

While they may well avail themselves of a N. T. when they come to believe and after that read the warnings of Jesus - it isn't likely that they will have studied enough systematic eschatology to fully understand the relationship of the Daniel prophecy vis-a-vis the warnings of Jesus.

Heck - look at the folks here. They've had the Word of God, complete with various commentaries from different viewpoints dissecting these events ad nauseam, for most of their lives - and look at the ignorance displayed in this thread alone concerning the meaning of the "abomination that causes desolation" which the Lord was talking about - not to mention the rather clear and simple to understand doctrine concerning the rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ prior to the various judgments in those last days.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟794,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Matthew 24 verses 1 & 2 prophesies the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem which happened in 70 CE.

Matthew 24 verses 3-51 are prophesies about the end times.
Wait... so Jesus tells his disclipes “look at the temple, it will all come down stone by stone not one left upon another”, the disciples then ask Jesus “WHEN?” Jesus then totally ignores their question about “when the temple would fall” and instead talks about events thousands of years away that do not apply to them or the temple at all, but forgets to mention “hey by the way, The question you asked about when the temple would fall? I’m not gonna bother answering that, Instead I’m going to talk about a bunch of stuff that has no bearing on your lives here in this generation, that you’ll never see come to pass even though I’m going to use all kinds of language indicating you will see it come to pass before this generation passes...”

That’s what you are saying?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Jonaitis
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Wait... so Jesus tells his disclipes “look at the temple, it will all come down stone by stone not one left upon another”, the disciples then ask Jesus “WHEN?” Jesus then totally ignores their question about “when the temple would fall” and instead talks about events thousands of years away that do not apply to them or the temple at all, but forgets to mention “hey by the way, The question you asked about when the temple would fall? I’m not gonna bother answering that, Instead I’m going to talk about a bunch of stuff that has no bearing on your lives here in this generation, that you’ll never see come to pass even though I’m going to use all kinds of language indicating you will see it come to pass before this generation passes...”

That’s what you are saying?

Matthew 24 - 2 questions asked - 2 points addressed - multi-question/multi-answers

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (His response to them showing Him the temple, and Him predicting it would be destroyed and it was)

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things (referring to temple destroyed & His 2nd coming)? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jonaitis

Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 4, 2019
5,191
4,204
Wyoming
✟122,609.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Wait... so Jesus tells his disclipes “look at the temple, it will all come down stone by stone not one left upon another”, the disciples then ask Jesus “WHEN?” Jesus then totally ignores their question about “when the temple would fall” and instead talks about events thousands of years away that do not apply to them or the temple at all, but forgets to mention “hey by the way, The question you asked about when the temple would fall? I’m not gonna bother answering that, Instead I’m going to talk about a bunch of stuff that has no bearing on your lives here in this generation, that you’ll never see come to pass even though I’m going to use all kinds of language indicating you will see it come to pass before this generation passes...”

That’s what you are saying?

Exactly...
 
Upvote 0

Jonaitis

Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 4, 2019
5,191
4,204
Wyoming
✟122,609.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things (referring to temple destroyed & His 2nd coming)? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Actually, "world" is a translation that could also be rendered "age" and may have a limited scope, referring to Israel and the Old Covenant. "Coming" can be referred to as a judgment coming to Israel, rather than a physical appearance yet to happen. This language is used throughout Scripture, like the divine counsel during Babel.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Actually, "world" is a translation that could also be rendered "age" and may have a limited scope, referring to Israel and the Old Covenant. "Coming" can be referred to as a judgment coming to Israel, rather than a physical appearance yet to happen. This language is used throughout Scripture, like the divine counsel during Babel.

well... then further down it says which is definitely talking about His 2nd coming and the 1st resurrection.

Matthew 24

26Wherefore (so) (he's still talking to them) if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: shilohsfoal
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I agree with you about the EU but the structure for the system of government is the UN with the IMF and world bank. The EU is not rising they are heading towards a global collapse like the rest of the nations. The beast does not get power over the earth until the middle of the week. Which follows the seal judgments that come on all the earth. The beast has authority over every tribe tongue kindred and nation. The EU is one of the 10 and the other nations are in this counsel too. Fakers of the lost ark
The one world financial system is already plotted out. A pretty sharp guy named Martin ARmstrong is an economic forecaster who has a computer model that has a food track record and he is not Biblically influenced and he sees the IMF bringing about a one world currency.

The Coming One World Currency | Armstrong Economics

There are many more voices on this topic.
Brian, we have much in common. The role of the cartel can not be underestimating. I don't know about a one world currency, but the banking cartel would want it, but more than that they want everything digital. I doubt that there will be a one currency.

The globalist would want it. That' why they are trying to sabotage brexit.

Ever since the 2008/2009 meltdown, everything is being propped up by the central bankers and QE. It is just one scheme after another.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the little horn person comes out of the banking sector. Like Macron. But since he is not a Jew, that rules him out.

Yes, I have listened to Martin Armstrong, many times. There is so much on how the central bankers have got the world in the precarious situation it is now.

The person who becomes the beast does not do so until the middle part of the 7years, agreed.

What I am thinking that will cause a change in the EU government is (1) political crisis, which brexit is (2) financial crisis.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟794,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Matthew 24 - 2 questions asked - 2 points addressed - multi-question/multi-answers

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (His response to them showing Him the temple, and Him predicting it would be destroyed and it was)

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things (referring to temple destroyed & His 2nd coming)? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Ok, let’s assume you are right about “multiple questions multiple answers....”

If So, can you show me where in the discourse Jesus answers His disciples question about “WHEN the temple would fall.”?

You assert above That Jesus did in face address that question.
If so, Can you cite the verse?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,373
158
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟270,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I agree with most of what you said but the abomination that causes desolation affects Jerusalem according to the propbecy.Not the entire world.Jesus made sure his readers understand this by saying (in the holy place ) and that those in Judea will flee to the mountains.

No one in China is said to flee to the mountains.

But the topic is about those who flee in this thread.Some on this board have made the claim that believers are told to flee by Jesus.The problem with this is believers know and undertand the date the abomination of desolation is set up three and a half years before it happens.

What sense would it make for israels christians to wait till the last day to flee with the wicked people who do not undertand daniels prophecy?
Christians are told the exact day the great tribulation begins in Daniel three and a half years in advance.

There is a lot to parse out here. (just curious if you have an opinion on the question?)

'Abomination that causes desolation': I seem to recall that you view the AoD as a nuclear bomb, and I don't disagree in part. But we have to distinguish a few things, is the nuke in response to the man of sin calling himself God? Which is the 'abomination that causes desolation'?

In other words, the word 'destruction' revolves around a spiritual meaning & a physical meaning.

Daniel 9:26 Interlinear: And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations. In Daniel 9:26, the people of the ruler to come will 'destroy' the city & sanctuary. 'Destroy' is 'shachath' Strong's Hebrew: 7843. שָׁחַת (shachath) -- perhaps to go to ruin which is also translated as 'corrupt'.

when the man of sin call himself God, this would 'corrupt'/ spiritually destroy people who choose to believe that he is God, that would be an abomination that causes desolation.

when a different actor responds to this action with a nuke, that would be an abomination that causes desolation.

Also, 'middle of the week' has multiple meanings & occurences. IMO, the event in Judea referenced in Matt 24 is the middle of a particular 7 days (starting at the 70th anniversary of Jerusalem desolations, add 70 weeks, add 7 weeks, add 62 weeks, then go forward 3.5 days

Because people have been taught that the 'middle of the week' is 1260 days, then of course people will be caught unawares when it is only 3.5 days later.

As I tentatively understand it, the man of sin calls himself God in the middle of a particular week/ 7 days (which just so happens to land on Dec 21, 2020). Because he does this, then Judea is attacked? And this reactionary attack would be on the 10th of Tevet which happens to be on Christmas day Dec 25, 2020. Jewish Calendar 2020 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar

the 10th of Tevet referenced from Ezekiel 24
In the ninth year, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me:
2 “Son of man, write down the name of this day, this very day. The king of Babylon has laid siege to Jerusalem this very day. 3 And utter a parable to the rebellious house and say to them, Thus says the Lord God:

“Set on the pot, set it on;
pour in water also;
4 put in it the pieces of meat,
all the good pieces, the thigh and the shoulder;
fill it with choice bones.
5 Take the choicest one of the flock;
pile the logs under it;
boil it well;
seethe also its bones in it.

6 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: Woe to the bloody city, to the pot whose corrosion is in it, and whose corrosion has not gone out of it! Take out of it piece after piece, without making any choice. 7 For the blood she has shed is in her midst; she put it on the bare rock; she did not pour it out on the ground to cover it with dust. 8 To rouse my wrath, to take vengeance, I have set on the bare rock the blood she has shed, that it may not be covered. 9 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Woe to the bloody city! I also will make the pile great.​
 
Upvote 0

Bruce Leiter

A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love
Jun 16, 2018
782
551
81
West Michigan
Visit site
✟56,865.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How do "the saints know and understand" the date to be 3 1/2 years before it comes? Three and a one-half years was the time of Elijah's famine. Therefore, as in the Book of Revelation, it probably is a symbolic number. Jesus' prophecy along with many OT prophecies has direct and deeper meanings. The direct meaning deals with the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 40 years (note the beginning of the chapter), while the deeper meaning refers to Jesus' second coming, when there will be great unrest (now?). I prefer to be a "pan-millennialist." It'll all pan out. I prefer to think about the great hope we have that Jesus, when he comes, will create our resurrection bodies and a new universe.
 
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,459
8,968
Florida
✟321,876.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The prophecy spoken by the prophet Daniel does.Do you know anything about Daniels prophecy concerning the daily sacrifice and the abomination that causes desolation ?

Matthew 24:15 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand),

The daily sacrifice was ended by Antiochus Epiphanes during the Maccabean revolt. He was the "horn" that moved toward Egypt but then turned back to attack Israel.

See I Maccabees.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

shilohsfoal

Jacks or better to open
Jan 3, 2011
2,891
492
✟73,277.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
There is a lot to parse out here. (just curious if you have an opinion on the question?)

'Abomination that causes desolation': I seem to recall that you view the AoD as a nuclear bomb, and I don't disagree in part. But we have to distinguish a few things, is the nuke in response to the man of sin calling himself God? Which is the 'abomination that causes desolation'?

In other words, the word 'destruction' revolves around a spiritual meaning & a physical meaning.

Daniel 9:26 Interlinear: And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations. In Daniel 9:26, the people of the ruler to come will 'destroy' the city & sanctuary. 'Destroy' is 'shachath' Strong's Hebrew: 7843. שָׁחַת (shachath) -- perhaps to go to ruin which is also translated as 'corrupt'.

when the man of sin call himself God, this would 'corrupt'/ spiritually destroy people who choose to believe that he is God, that would be an abomination that causes desolation.

when a different actor responds to this action with a nuke, that would be an abomination that causes desolation.

Also, 'middle of the week' has multiple meanings & occurences. IMO, the event in Judea referenced in Matt 24 is the middle of a particular 7 days (starting at the 70th anniversary of Jerusalem desolations, add 70 weeks, add 7 weeks, add 62 weeks, then go forward 3.5 days

Because people have been taught that the 'middle of the week' is 1260 days, then of course people will be caught unawares when it is only 3.5 days later.

As I tentatively understand it, the man of sin calls himself God in the middle of a particular week/ 7 days (which just so happens to land on Dec 21, 2020). Because he does this, then Judea is attacked? And this reactionary attack would be on the 10th of Tevet which happens to be on Christmas day Dec 25, 2020. Jewish Calendar 2020 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar

the 10th of Tevet referenced from Ezekiel 24
In the ninth year, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me:
2 “Son of man, write down the name of this day, this very day. The king of Babylon has laid siege to Jerusalem this very day. 3 And utter a parable to the rebellious house and say to them, Thus says the Lord God:

“Set on the pot, set it on;
pour in water also;
4 put in it the pieces of meat,
all the good pieces, the thigh and the shoulder;
fill it with choice bones.
5 Take the choicest one of the flock;
pile the logs under it;
boil it well;
seethe also its bones in it.

6 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: Woe to the bloody city, to the pot whose corrosion is in it, and whose corrosion has not gone out of it! Take out of it piece after piece, without making any choice. 7 For the blood she has shed is in her midst; she put it on the bare rock; she did not pour it out on the ground to cover it with dust. 8 To rouse my wrath, to take vengeance, I have set on the bare rock the blood she has shed, that it may not be covered. 9 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Woe to the bloody city! I also will make the pile great.​

It has nothing to do with a man showing himsrlf that he is God.

The abomination of desolation is placed after the king of the norths forces have been defeated in jerusalem.His military will lay dead in the street after being killed by the beast/aka/king of the south.
It takes place at the time of the end.

Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

The king of the norths military occupies Jerusalem,for 42 months,then it is attacked and killed . The king of the north responds with the abomination that causes desolation.He will destroy many cities and countries at that time.

Daniel 11:44 But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.

Both Daniel and Jesus said at that time ,would be great tribulation.
Both these verses pertain the the abomination that causes desolation.

Daniel 12:1 At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress such as never has occurred from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

Matthew 24:21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.
 
Upvote 0