Radical Muslims Murder 32 Nigerian Christians, Torch Church in Brutal Attack

[Justified112]

Nice routine! Muslims killing tourists was the altruistic motivation for invading other people's homes, and the invaders weren't Christian at all, that's just some liberal conspiracy agenda myth!!
Hilarious stuff, always amazes me the lengths folks will go to pretend away ugly truths : )

No, that's actually history. And they were not "tourists." They were pilgrims. The Pope recruited people who had no compunction about killing anyone. They used a lot of hardened criminals, murderers in particular and offered them freedom in exchange for fighting during the crusades. It was cheap labor. Anyone who thinks the crusaders were genuine Christians doesn't know history.

 

[Justified112]

But seriously folks (and it is serious since the Christian invaders left behind a mountain of corpses, mutilated, rape victims, destroyed food supplies and homes etc) the Crusades were sponsored by the Popes, the bishops and priests and abbots and Christian lay leaders were their cheerleaders as they recruited their congregations, the church mobilized professional Christian soldiers like the Templars and Hospitallers etc... That's about as Christian as it gets...

That's about as unchristian as it gets. True followers of Jesus would never have done what the crusaders did.

 

[JosephZ]

No, that's actually history.

Can you provide us with the source of where your information on the history of the crusades comes from?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

he Pope recruited people who had no compunction about killing anyone. They used a lot of hardened criminals, murderers in particular and offered them freedom in exchange for fighting during the crusades.

The Pope also wanted to get rid of the knights - who were apply described as being closer to Tony Soprano than Lancelot - pillaging around so firing them at Holy Lands was perfect solution. When throwing hand grenade at your enemies you do not really worry about the health of either one.

 

[Justified112]

The Pope also wanted to get rid of the knights - who were apply described as being closer to Tony Soprano than Lancelot - pillaging around so firing them at Holy Lands was perfect solution. When throwing hand grenade at your enemies you do not really worry about the health of either one.

Which mitigates against the knights of the crusades being actual Christians. They were simply criminals bearing a false title.

The Crusades are always used to try and draw a moral equivalence between Christianity and brutality of Islam, as if both are guilty of the same thing, which is a complete and total farce.

 

[Justified112]

Your post is of course self-serving gibberish.
In your fairy land the shameful actions of the Christian Crusades(pardon the redundancy) are dismissed because they aren't REAL Christians.

I am not dismissing what they did, nor am I justifying it. I am saying that Christianity is often unfairly maligned by those who use the Crusades to make the Christian religion appear to be violent. History tells us that the crusaders were not actual Christians. They fought under a Christian banner, but they were bribed to do so. They were criminals and not Christians.

 

[Justified112]

And your post is bigoted Islamophobic drivel.
Through your parochial kaleidoscope violent folks who are Muslims ARE the real Muslims and represent all of Islam which is inherently brutal.
This ignorant hate speech should be banned and punished.

No, it is not Islamophobic. It is based on real history. History tells us that it was the Muslims who were murdering Christian pilgrims who were traveling to the Holy Land for purely religious purposes. The Crusades, however, misguided, were a response to Muslim atrocities against Christians. That is not hate speech. It is informed speech; speech informed by history. That's something more liberal Christians need to learn regarding this matter.

 

[usexpat97]

That's about as unchristian as it gets. True followers of Jesus would never have done what the crusaders did.

Let's see...driving out the inhabitants of the "holy land" from their 200-year-old homes, murdering them, leaving them homeless, jobless, and country-less, because "God told them" to violently take the land? Because of some religious event(s) that happened 4000 years ago? Sounds "Christian" to me. Sounds like something going on right now. I think a certain member here on CF whose name starts with a J supports it.

 

[Justified112]

And here's a meta question that you won't have heard an answer to on am radio and gibberish sites aka your authoritative sources... Why did God create the world in such a way(according to you) that for all those centuries the hegemonic form of Christianity was false!?

God gives man free will. I think it is worth pointing out that while much of institutional Christianity was and has been a false form of Christianity, there has always been a remnant of authentic Christians, genuine followers of Jesus.

Jesus said, "strait is the gate and narrow is the way to eternal life and few there will be that find it." The majority of mankind has always preferred the wide gate and broad road to destruction. We see it today, just like we see it in history.

Just like the Crusaders, there are many people today who claim to be "Christians" for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus. There are those who define Christianity in terms of their participation in the external Christian community, who think they are Christians because of their parents or upbringing. They see no need to come to Jesus personally for salvation because they were raised in a church and feel they have been good enough to merit God's favor. There are some who were baptized as infants and have not darkened the door of a church since.

Authentic Christianity has always existed parallel to the cultural Christianity. Cultural Christianity is a form of Christianity that does not really have Christ in it, at least not when it comes to embracing Jesus personally as Savior and Lord in the biblical sense.

 

[Justified112]

Let's see...driving out the inhabitants of the "holy land" from their 200-year-old homes, murdering them, leaving them homeless, jobless, and country-less, because "God told them" to violently take the land? Because of some religious event(s) that happened 4000 years ago? Sounds "Christian" to me. Sounds like something going on right now. I think a certain member here on CF whose name starts with a J supports it.

I don't know where you are getting that from, but that is the usual twisted, contorted version of history that I hear a lot. That certainly isn't in the Bible. And it is certainly not happening now.

 

[usexpat97]

I don't know where you are getting that from, but that is the usual twisted, contorted version of history that I hear a lot. That certainly isn't in the Bible. And it is certainly not happening now.

I don't know...that just seems to me a little ironic that the same person who would denounce the Crusades as "non-Christian" would support this prophetic "return of the Jews to the Holy Land", bulldozing the Palestinians' homes in the process.

 

[Justified112]

I don't know...that just seems to me a little ironic that the same person who would denounce the Crusades as "non-Christian" would support this prophetic "return of the Jews to the Holy Land", bulldozing the Palestinians' homes in the process.

Well, there again, I refer back to the fact that your account of what is happening isn't really accurate. Israel bulldozed Palestinian houses that were used as bomb making factories, armories, etc. It is a common practice among groups like Hamas to position themselves among the non-combatants and to use civilian buildings as cover for their operations. The media, which is generally, anti-Israel often misreports the facts.

They also support a false narrative surrounding the history and dynamics of the conflict. For example, it was the surrounding Arab nations that made the Palestinians refugees, telling them to leave their homes in advance of their six-nation alliance that would crush Israel back in 1948. They didn't count on Israel winning that war. But Israel won and the Arabs prevented in coming years, through the United Nations, any repatriating of Palestinians. Israel didn't make them refugees, the Arab community and they still do. It was the Arabs who have consistently put up a roadblock to the formation of a Palestinian state (1936, 1947, 2000). Israel has always supported a Palestinian state. But the Arabs voted against it at every turn.

So I am sorry, but history is actually on my side. I am not saying that Israel is perfect and I cannot defend everything Israel has done. But many of the mistakes Israel has made would not have been made in the first place were they not subjected to non-stop day and night terrorism and calls for Israel's destruction. Israel does not owe the Palestinians a state, Israel did not make them refugees and it is unfair and unreasonable to expect Israel to resolve a refugee crisis they did not create.

 

[JosephZ]

Well, there again, I refer back to the fact that your account of what is happening isn't really accurate. Israel bulldozed Palestinian houses that were used as bomb making factories, armories, etc.

Does your use of "etc" include homes used for raising families and farming? It's not just properties being used for making bombs and used as armories that are being taken, it's homes and lands that have been in families for many generations (Long before 1948) that are also being claimed by Israel. These properties not only belong to Palestinian Muslims, but also Palestinian Christians and Jews.

Christians in Jerusalem warn of Israel attempts to take their land
Catholic church slams Israel’s razing of its property
Christians refuse to leave Bethlehem farm
Churches call for urgent action for Cremisan Valley — World Council of Churches
Bethlehem Christians feel the squeeze as Israeli settlements spread

This link goes to a 90 page report which includes many pictures, maps, and testimonies concerning the Israeli confiscation of private Palestinian land in the Cremisan Valley.
http://fr.lpj.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Cremisan-Report.pdf

I am sorry, but history is actually on my side.

It's bad enough that your history on the Israeli conflict is distorted, but to claim that the crusades were not carried out by Christians? History is certainly not on your side.

 

[JosephZ]

It is based on real history. History tells us that it was the Muslims who were murdering Christian pilgrims who were traveling to the Holy Land for purely religious purposes. The Crusades, however, misguided, were a response to Muslim atrocities against Christians. That is not hate speech. It is informed speech; speech informed by history.

I asked you this question earlier in the thread, but maybe you overlooked it.

Can you provide us with the source of where your information on the history of the crusades comes from?

 

[FireDragon76]

It seems CBN is continuing to repeat the unsubstantiated claim that Fulani herdsmen have killed 60,000+ people since 2001. Here is a quote from the article:

"According to the Global Terrorism Index, Fulani herdsmen have killed more than 60,000 people since 2001."

The Global terrorism Index has never reported such a number, nor has any other legitimate source.

No, there is no evidence that 60,000 Christians been killed in a 'genocide' by "Fulani Herdsmen" in Nigeria

According to the International Crisis Group, political and religious claims of a jihad by ethnic Fulanis are conspiracies which have grown in response to the conflict, which is fundamentally about land-use between mainly nomadic cattle herders and sedentary farmers.

There are no reliable estimates for the total number of deaths since 2001 and no known estimates which divide the deaths along religious lines. The herders are mainly Muslim while the farmers are largely Christian.

The International Crisis Group reported around 12,000 deaths from 2011-2016. It said that in the first 6 months of 2018, 1,300 people were killed in clashes between herders and farmers.

In northern Nigeria, clashes have also occurred in states like Gombe, where the majority of farmers are Muslim, suggesting that the underlying causes for the conflict are not religious.

A number of US-based Christian groups and organisations have repeated similar claims, including Open Doors USA, the US branch of an international organisation that supports “persecuted Christians in the most high-risk places”.

Others include the Gatestone Institute, a right-wing think tank.

Articles and petitions repeating these claims have been shared hundreds of thousands of times on Facebook.


The best I can tell there seems to be an equal amount of atrocities coming from both Christians and Muslims in the region. There are no innocent parties in this conflict.

That seems to be the case, it's mostly ethnic conflict and conflict over resources.

 

[kcnalp]

2 Timothy 3:12
12 All who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.