LDS Mormons, who is Heavenly Father?

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The English word for the Hebrew word Elohim is God. The English word for the Hebrew word Yahweh Elohim is the Lord God. God the Father is Elohim, and Jesus, the Lord God is Yahweh Elohim.

Jehovah is not another God!

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah. There were no Gods formed before or after Him, the Alpha and Omega.)
 
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mmksparbud

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The metaphysical has to do with the world of spirits. Which our prophets have not received all answers. Although it is true that all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and mother, and are literally sons and daughters of Deity, it is unknown how God the Father and Heavenly Mother form the spirit into a real living, thinking spirit child.

The spirit and the intelligence are eternal and is uncreated. God the Father and Heavenly Mother in some fashion, take the eternal intelligence and houses it in an eternal spirit. Let me give you some scriptures that may help you understand this process.

If you take Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This is in the first chapter of Genesis. God/Elohim and Others have made males (in His image)
and females (not in His image but in Her image-
Heavenly Mothers image - you know males have a different image than females :))

Now go to Genesis 2:1-7
In verses 1-4, God/Elohim is finished with the creation and rests.

Verse 5 is interesting, because after God/Elohim has finished His creation, He makes a strange statement and says, there not a man on the earth to till the ground?

And then verse 7:
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Then later he formed the female Eve.

So several questions need to be answered about Genesis 1 & 2
1) So God/Elohim made (notice that the words, 'made' and 'created' seem to be interchangeable, not sure what that means) man - both male and female. How many did They make/create?
Where did They create them. What happened to all of them?

2) If God/Elohim created and then finished and rested on the 7th day, why was there not a man on earth to till the ground? (remember vs. 5)

3) Now notice that verse 7 changes the name of the Creator to Lord God, which in Hebrew is Yahweh/Elohim. Is this another God? Is Justin right? Is this why God/Elohim said 'let us' make man...?
Was God/Elohim talking about Yahweh Elohim (in whose image males were made), and Heavenly Mother (in whose image females was made?)

4) So Yahweh Elohim now takes over the creating, and he makes man out of the dust of the ground.
Why does this not say, and Yahweh Elohim created man 'out of nothing'? Did he make man out or unformed matter? Maybe Justin was right?
Wait a minute, didn't God Elohim and Others make/create man in the first chapter?
Why is there 2 creations of man?

I will give you a hint, and solve the mystery.

In Genesis chapter 1, God/Elohim and others made/created male and female. At least, Elohim was there, and Heavenly Mother was there. This is the time that they formed Their spirit children, all of the children that would eventually come to earth.
(The method of forming has not been given to us at this time). Jesus was the 1st spirit child as the bible says, (see Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14)

It is a spirit creation and that is why in vs. 5 of chapter 2, it says there was not a man to till the ground. It is because the first chapter was a spirit creation in heaven and so there was no flesh man on the earth yet.

Then in chapter 2, Yahewh/Elohim (Jesus) now having Godhood status, is given power to create from God the Father and creates everything in the universe. The first man in the flesh, on the earth, now to till the ground is Adam, his wife is Eve. And the rest of the creation follows.

So long story, but a good one.

When this thread was started I was in the hospital in a coma for a couple months---interesting to see what was going on---same old thing that God did not create out of nothing when it is obvious He did.
We just had this same argument a short time ago--- Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
At the start of creation God created that dirt that Adam and Eve were formed from.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

There was an argument over the word all---you claim it doesn't mean all---it does. God doesn't do things half way. When an attribute or creation of God is spoken of--it is in it's entirety. When it says He is merciful, that is what it means, when it says He is love---He isn't loving--He is love. When it says He created all---it means ALL.
Gen 1 and 2 are not 2 separate accounts of 2 different creations, as some people claim, it is the same creation. Gen 1 is in chronological order, Gen 2 isn't.
 
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Rescued One

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So Mormons claim that we do not worship the true God; if our God is false there is no true God.

" The God of Abraham came down to visit Abraham and instruct him on several occasions, as he did likewise to others of the prophets. So Abraham became acquainted with our Heavenly Father and knew him. All I need to do to show that the God of Athanasius is not the God of Abraham is to refer to three points."
Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions, a Mormon Priesthood manual, published by the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1972.

What were the 3 points?

If you are referring to Joseph Fielding Smith's objections to the Athanasian Creed, pages 14 and 15 of the manual I referenced, he quotes a heretic(Arius) to support his objection. Arius was considered an apostate by Joseph Smith, Jr.. J. F. Smith also thinks that Athanasius doesn't believe in the distinctions between the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

From the creed:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal...

I have no objection to the creed.
 
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Rescued One

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The hebrew word 'yastar' means 'to form'. Thank you for proving my point that the Lord God/Yahew Elohim, formed man from the unformed dust of the earth.
He did not create man 'out of nothing'.

If there was not 2 Gods, then why would Moses use the name Elohim in Genesis 1 and another name, Yahweh Elohim in Genesis 2? Did he do that to confuse us right from the beginning?

The legitimate reason is the name of the Genesis 2 God is a different name and a different Person than the Genesis 1 God. If your looking for no legitimate reasons for things, here it is. There would be no ligitimate reason for Moses to call God by the name of Elohim in Genesis 1, and then call God by the name of Yahweh Elohim in Genesis 2.

Unless you can give me a reason?

Elohim isn't someone's name.
 
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Peter1000

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The Moses of the Bible or the Moses of Joseph Smith?
Moses of the bible, silly. All you have to do is look at the interlineary bible that shows you the words in Hebrew and what they are in English. The first verse of the bible says that God created the heavens and the earth. The word God in our English language is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim. It was not Yahweh/Jehovah that created in the first chapter of Genesis, it was God the Father, Elohim. Yahweh started creating things in Genesis chapter 2.

God (the Father) = Elohim created everything spiritually in heaven, Genesis 1, before Yahweh created things naturally in Genesis 2.

We know this because of Genesis 2:5 which says (and note Genesis 2 is after God
(the Father) had already created everything in Genesis 1) but there was not a man (on the earth) to till the ground. (my parenthesis).

Why was there no man on earth to till the ground in Genesis 2, when God (the Father) had created everything in Genesis 1?

Where was everything created in Genesis 1? Not on the earth according to Genesis 2:5.

So where was everything created in Genesis 1?

Think about it for a minute before you answer.
 
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Peter1000

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If I wrote chapter two to explain more detail I would go back to explain that before man was made, the ground couldn't be tilled by a man.

I have no idea what you just said, please reword this statement again to make it more understandable. Genesis 2:5 also talkes about before the plants and herbs were on the earth. So this little forgotten scripture seems to be misplaced and very strange, but it isn't. It is spot on.
1)Genesis 1 creation in heaven by Elohim
2)Confirmation that it was heaven were these things were created, because there was no plants and herbs and man found on the earth yet.
3)Genesis 2:6- the end, natural creation by Yahweh/Jesus.

Fits like a glove.
 
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Rescued One

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Moses of the bible, silly. All you have to do is look at the interlineary bible that shows you the words in Hebrew and what they are in English. The first verse of the bible says that God created the heavens and the earth. The word God in our English language is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim. It was not Yahweh/Jehovah that created in the first chapter of Genesis, it was God the Father, Elohim. Yahweh started creating things in Genesis chapter 2.

God (the Father) = Elohim created everything spiritually in heaven, Genesis 1, before Yahweh created things naturally in Genesis 2.

Your answer is fiction! The Father is NOT named Elohim! Elohim (God) is not someone's name.

We know this because of Genesis 2:5 which says (and note Genesis 2 is after God
(the Father) had already created everything in Genesis 1) but there was not a man (on the earth) to till the ground. (my parenthesis).

Genesis 2:3
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

(The word Father is not in this chapter.)


Why was there no man on earth to till the ground in Genesis 2, when God (the Father) had created everything in Genesis 1?

The word Father is not in that verse, nor is Elohim someone's name. Genesis 1 is not prior to Genesis 2!

Where was everything created in Genesis 1? Not on the earth according to Genesis 2:5.

Why assume something that no one knows? God is not limited to Kolob nor any place near Joseph Smith's Kolob!

Genesis 2
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Plants don't have spirits.


So where was everything created in Genesis 1?

Think about it for a minute before you answer.

I guess you're the one who needs to think:

The word God doesn't mean Father. The words LORD God don't mean the Son of God.

Joseph Smith's version of Genesis:


Pearl of Great Price, Moses 3
18 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten, that it was not good that the man should be alone; wherefore, I will make an help meet for him.
Moses 3

smiley_confused.gif
 
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He is the way

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(Don't bother accusing me of misrepresentation. I use official sources.)
Doctrine and Covenants 130
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Doctrine and Covenants 130:22

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.

In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
The King Follett Sermon given by the Prophet Joseph Smith at the April 7, 1844, conference of the Church in Nauvoo, Illinois.
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971 - ensign

Mormons, feel free to add to this.
I can add to this by quoting the Bible:
(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
 
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I can add to this by quoting the Bible:
(New Testament | 1 John 3:2)

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I've read that. You can't try to interpret one verse while ignoring the rest of the Bible.
 
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He is the way

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I've read that. You can't try to interpret one verse while ignoring the rest of the Bible.
Here is some more from the Bible:
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

(New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:5 - 6)

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(New Testament | Galatians 1:1)

1 PAUL, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
 
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Rescued One

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(New Testament | Galatians 1:1)

1 PAUL, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Now tell us Who raised Jesus from the dead.
 
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He is the way

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Now tell us Who raised Jesus from the dead.
I thought that scripture was pretty much self explanatory. Are you still unable to understand who our Father in heaven is? I believe God is love. There is one way to know who God is and that is to keep the commandments:
(New Testament | 1 John 2:4)

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 
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He is the way, please answer my question:
(New Testament | Galatians 1:1)

1 PAUL, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.

(New Testament | Acts 2:31 - 32)

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

(New Testament | Romans 8:11)

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

It was God the Father, not to be confused with God's spirit which is the Holy Ghost.
 
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Peter1000

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When this thread was started I was in the hospital in a coma for a couple months---interesting to see what was going on---same old thing that God did not create out of nothing when it is obvious He did.
We just had this same argument a short time ago--- Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
At the start of creation God created that dirt that Adam and Eve were formed from.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

There was an argument over the word all---you claim it doesn't mean all---it does. God doesn't do things half way. When an attribute or creation of God is spoken of--it is in it's entirety. When it says He is merciful, that is what it means, when it says He is love---He isn't loving--He is love. When it says He created all---it means ALL.
Gen 1 and 2 are not 2 separate accounts of 2 different creations, as some people claim, it is the same creation. Gen 1 is in chronological order, Gen 2 isn't.
What day of creation did God create the earth? What day of creation did God create the water?

Prove to me that the word "create" means making something out of nothing?
 
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mmksparbud

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What day of creation did God create the earth? What day of creation did God create the water?

Prove to me that the word "create" means making something out of nothing?


If He didn't, where did it come from? Just magically appeared?

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

At the start of creation---He created the earth and the space around it---He created the earth without form, void, and with water (the deep).
You want to believe something else--go ahead. My God is the creator God--always was God--was never human and never weak. He has no limits except those He sets on Himself because of His character---Example: He doesn't lie. He is not just loving---He is love. My God is able---yours, apparently, isn't.
 
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Rescued One

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(New Testament | Galatians 1:1)

1 PAUL, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.

(New Testament | Acts 2:31 - 32)

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

(New Testament | Romans 8:11)

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

It was God the Father, not to be confused with God's spirit which is the Holy Ghost.

No, it was the Triune God. God Acts 2:32 refers to the Triune God, the ONLY TRUE GOD.

God's Spirit according to Mormonism is not in a place separate from his exalted body. The "Holy Ghost" is a separate god in the godhead in your religion.

Neither the Father, the Son, nor Holy Spirit/Ghost dwell in humans according to Mormonism.
 
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No, it was the Triune God. God Acts 2:32 refers to the Triune God, the ONLY TRUE GOD.

God's Spirit according to Mormonism is not in a place separate from his exalted body. The "Holy Ghost" is a separate god in the godhead in your religion.

Neither the Father, the Son, nor Holy Spirit/Ghost dwell in humans according to Mormonism.
You said "nor Holy Spirit/Ghost dwell in humans according to Mormonism" I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is wrong. The Holy Ghost can dwell in us:
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 130:22)
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
 
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