Brexit and bible prophecy

[Douggg]

Or..these are all the empires leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. Therefore a fulfilled prophesy.

Maria, I started a thread which you can provide a walk through of Ezekiel 38-39 to explain those verses, as having already happened.

Walk through if I have it wrong, Ezekiel 38-39

 

[Anthony2019]

Lord, please sort out, once and for all, the colossal mess that is Brexit.
Amen.

 

[Douggg]

I suggest everyone stop worrying about Dispensational scenarios, of which there is seemingly no end. God is in control. Neither Trump nor Theresa May are going to bring the Lord back

notreligus, the reason most futurists are attentive to the end times events is because we are told when we see these things begin to happen, look up, our redemption draws near.

Compare what Jack Van Impe was teaching about the antichrist when his teachings were first published on vinyl records instead of CD's and DVD's.

Vinyl records? Are you talking about VHS tapes? Yes, I have some of those. At one time, JVI was saying Juan Carlos was the Antichrist. I personally go back to the early 70's and when the late great planet earth first came out. I have heard many, many, many theories and views.

 

[shilohsfoal]

uh, I don't think your are Jesus. I am going to start a new thread for posters like yourself to show me how I have missed it, regarding a walk through of Ezekiel 38-39, with your walk through of Ezekiel 38-39 text.

Have you ever heard of the revelation of Jesus Christ?
It reveals what is to come.

 

[gideon123]

Speaking as someone who once lived in a country in the former British Commonwealth, the whole Brexit process has been confusing. In fact, gobstopping. I cant understand why the UK cannot go back to the country of 1972. Britain was independent then, and it was doing perfectly fine.

I guess the problem is that a whole generation of young Britains have grown up inside the EU, and they cannot imagine what it must be like to be living in a separate country.

Whatever the real problems may be, I do wish the UK well in this difficult time. I do not know where it will end up. I never imagined that the UK would become so enmeshed inside the EU that it could never break free (again).

I'm not sure I see a connection with Bible prophecy. But I think it is clear that all of the West is floundering. Pres. Trump keeps chanting 'MAGA', but it is impossible for America to turn back the clock and become the 'USA of 1960'. And Canada is also in a big mess with its politics right now. There is a major global transition happening, and the western economies are sinking. It is irreversible. China is becoming the wealthiest country in the world.

Blessings!

 

[Douggg]

I'm not sure I see a connection with Bible prophecy. But I think it is clear that all of the West is floundering. Pres. Trump keeps chanting 'MAGA', but it is impossible for America to turn back the clock and become the 'USA of 1960'. And Canada is also in a big mess with its politics right now. There is a major global transition happening, and the western economies are sinking. It is irreversible. China is becoming the wealthiest country in the world.

Hi gideon123,

imo, it is not definitive clear how this brexit outcome is going to play in bible prophecy. But there has to be some activity that will end up with the EU having a ten leader form of government with the little horn person in charge. Basically, what I am saying is watch, because things are heating up over there - for change.

Regarding China, they are in big trouble because their prosperity has been built on a mountain of debt as has the U.S. and the rest of the world - by the central bankers.

The countries are so far in debt, that the central bankers can hardly even raise interest rates, because the debt payments, even at record lows, near or exceed the GDP of the countries. Couple that with individual debt and overinflated real estate prices (which btw adds further burden on individuals because with inflated prices come higher property tax).

Plus there is huge resentment over the muslim invasion of Europe, from native Europeans.

There are major changes coming not too far down the road.

 

[mindlight]

I don't know if you have been watching the brexit activity in parliament the last week, but it has been astounding to watch. The UK was under the Brexit plan scheduled to leave the EU by March 29, 2019. Brexit was voted on by public referendum two years ago, and the two years to exit deadline was to provide for an orderly exit.

Hi Dougg, we have been discussing this since November in Politics - International forums and before that in various threads also, but it is always interesting to hear a new angle on BREXIT, so thanks for starting this thread

No deal BREXIT looms

We, the British, voted on BREXIT 23rd March 2016 but Article 50 (the legal stuff necessary to start the ball rolling) was initiated 2 years ago on March 29 2017.

Well, there now is anything but orderly, and has become a really big mess. There is an extension, not well defined, in theory that parliament voted for, a few days ago - but it is contingent to being approved by the EU - which is highly questionable as PM May has to go to brussels to seek the extension, that they will approve, and if there are stipulations.

The media love to paint this as a mess and there are various vested interests that want this to succeed or not. But actually the turmoil in parliament reflects a turmoil in the British nation about this issue. It captures many of the most important trends of our time including nationalism versus globalism, corporatism versus free enterprise, supranational interests versus local ones. It does not help that the two parties are ideologically diametrically opposed at the moment with an extremely left wing socialist party fighting a more conservative and neo liberal Tory party. Also there is the problem that Scotland really does not want this and that if it happens it threatens a peace process in Ireland which has been stable for decades now. So lots of big issues all being forced on us in the same event.

What has this got to do with bible prophecy? Well, there is not anything in bible prophecy, directly imo. Except the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2 will be not so unified in the end times.

Also, Italy is getting rebellious, because the way the EU has to approve all the member states budgets. Which means every countries fate is in the hands of some unelected bureacrates.

Which leads me think that this discontent is going to push the EU to reorganize into the ten kings, leader, form of the government of Daniel 7's fourth kingdom.

I cannot see the EU slimming down into 10 Kingdoms anytime soon from its current 27(28). Italy is an issue. But the EU only has limited power over each individual nations finances and especially when they are managing their economies properly. A case could be made for an indifference to God in many EU members but not really direct hostility. The Grundgesetz (constitutional law) in Germany guarantees freedom of religion. Also the vision of unlimited global growth has been stunted recently as Europe has come across some big barriers to such a vision - such as corruption in the Ukraine, Islamism and dictatorship in Turkey and of course BREXIT. The EU is less intrusive than helpful for normal people subsidising progress in Eastern Europe and making largely sensible rules about how we should get on with each other. It is hard to spot the malice and evil necessary to make this some kind of Satanic arrangement we can fit into end time prophecies.

 

[Douggg]

I cannot see the EU slimming down into 10 Kingdoms anytime soon from its current 27(28). Italy is an issue

I don't think it has to be ten kingdoms or individually ten countries.

Instead, the Eu could re-organize into ten districts - and a leader voted for each of those districts, to appease the complaints of unelected bureaucrats making decisions which the member states have to abide by. So restructuring of the current EU government.

It is hard to spot the malice and evil necessary to make this some kind of Satanic arrangement we can fit into end time prophecies.

 

[notreligus]

notreligus, the reason most futurists are attentive to the end times events is because we are told when we see these things begin to happen, look up, our redemption draws near.


Vinyl records? Are you talking about VHS tapes? Yes, I have some of those. At one time, JVI was saying Juan Carlos was the Antichrist. I personally go back to the early 70's and when the late great planet earth first came out. I have heard many, many, many theories and views.

I am a futurist and I know very well what the Lord told His people to do.

I just don't agree with two future Kingdoms when a spiritual kingdom already exists NOW! The Book of Hebrews is not a book just for Jews. Sorry, I didn't write it, but it was written (likely by Paul) someone who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write it. No one is saved now if that book is not true. Christ is like our attorney who calls us righteous and His shed blood is the proof that what the Father demanded had been done.

Dispensationals are fine with their dealings and dispensations until they make a U-Turn after Revelation Chapter Three and have whisked the Church onto the back-burner. Christ came to reconcile EVERYONE back to the Father. No more need for any back-burners for anyone or any people group.

My reference to vinyl is a reference to Jack Van Impe having published his end-times teachings (never a negative reference to Catholics, by the way) on vinyl records. I personally go back to vinyl as a child in the 50s and teen in the 60s. I have many versions of musical storage and publishing, except for 8-tracks. They self-destructed by the loop getting tighter every time the cartridge was played. Eventually they jammed.

 

[notreligus]

John Bercow, the Speaker of the British House of Commons, just turned down Theresa May's request for a third vote. He told her that her agreement was a re-worded document with the same substance as the other two that have already been rejected. May has painted the British government into a proverbial corner. She's had lots of help.

 

[gideon123]

Speaking for the 'disorganized masses' ... i am completely lost about the Brexit process now. Does this mean that the Brexit will go ahead at the end of March, or is it on hold??

 

[gideon123]

I do want to thank the UK participants for their explanations. Over here in the USA we do not get good news coverage about the 'big picture' of Brexit. Americans are not aware that Scotland and England are divided on the issue. And more seriously, we do not have an awareness that the N. Ireland peace process is at risk. That is a grave risk. I suddenly understand why Theresa May is fighting to save the Backstop.

In reference to the OP, I think the Biblical prophecies are hard to see (now). But if there is a major political upheaval, things could become much clearer. Possibly this will require more than just 'Brexit confusion'. For example. If there is another war in the Middle East, that could trigger a series of repercussions that cause a major political re-alignment. Heaven forbid that something like that should happen, but who knows??

A re-alignment in Europe is likely to be accompanied by opportunistic moves by both Russia and China. For example, China could invade Taiwan and Russia could seize Lithuania. They would be capitalizing on confusion in Washington DC from some type of 'crisis overload'. I realize that NATO is supposed to stop this kind of aggression (Lithuania), but who knows what NATO will do if there is another Middle East war and Europe re-aligns?

Blessings!

 

[mindlight]

I don't think it has to be ten kingdoms or individually ten countries.

Instead, the Eu could re-organize into ten districts - and a leader voted for each of those districts, to appease the complaints of unelected bureaucrats making decisions which the member states have to abide by. So restructuring of the current EU government.

An AntiChrist type figure could of course unite the unique nations of Europe and then redistrict them around the larger nations. But equally he could do that with NATO, the UN or even entirely new supranational organisations.

But there is no clear impulse to deliberate and antiChristian evil in the current EU beyond a broad defence of gay marriage, a naive openness to false religion and abortion, which hardly rare in Western nations.

You could not say that the 10 heads of a demonic kingdom will be centred on the EU from scripture or any kind of credible prophecy I am aware of.

I have even heard prophecies to the contrary that the relationship between Germany ( the Shepherd) and Britain ( The teacher and Father) are the key to world revival. This would make conflict between the 2 over Brexit as more spiritually dangerous that efforts to build unity within supranational frameworks

 

[mindlight]

Speaking for the 'disorganized masses' ... i am completely lost about the Brexit process now. Does this mean that the Brexit will go ahead at the end of March, or is it on hold??

The current possibilities include:

1) Hard Brexit on 29th March ( ie no deal)
2) Revocation ( no BREXIT)
3) Some kind of EU approved extension leading to a new deal, a second referendum or reconsideration

Mays deal now seems to be officially dead.

In other words just about anything could happen!

 

[Lost4words]

End times predictions are like grains of sand on the beach. Too many to count!

Revelation is the most misinterpreted book in the Bible.

 

[Douggg]

An AntiChrist type figure could of course unite the unique nations of Europe and then redistrict them around the larger nations. But equally he could do that with NATO, the UN or even entirely new supranational organisations.

I would call him a little horn figure at this point. Being the leader of Europe, would essentially him being in the role of king of the Roman Empire in the end times.

Being the Antichrist is the person being in the role of the King of Israel. That comes a little later.

I made a chart about the progression of the person through the various roles, mainly because it can be hard to communicate with commentary alone.

My chart for anyone interested

You could not say that the 10 heads of a demonic kingdom will be centred on the EU from scripture or any kind of credible prophecy I am aware of.

Ten kings over the end times fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:23-24.

And the ten kings rule with the beast in Revelation 17:12-13.

So it is a combination between Daniel 7:23-24 and Revelation 17:12-13. Daniel 7:23-24 is at the beginning of the person's path to his destruction. And Revelation 17:12-13 is at the end.

Right now, we need to watch the EU for developments that would lead to a ten leader formation of the government.

 

[keras]

For example. If there is another war in the Middle East, that could trigger a series of repercussions that cause a major political re-alignment. Heaven forbid that something like that should happen, but who knows??

There will not be a WW3.
Ezekiel 7:14 is plain: no one will go to war, for their turmoil will call forth My wrath.
Who knows? you ask.....We who study the Prophetic Word know, that it will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, that will reset the world's civilization, now once again; as in the days of Noah.
This sudden and shocking Day will be triggered by the Islamic peoples attempting what they have tried before, but this time with nuke missiles; to wipe Israel off the map. But their weapons will recoil upon themselves. Psalms 7:12-16, Habakkuk 3:14, Joel 3:4, +
And the entire Middle East will be cleared and cleansed, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, + including the Jewish State of Israel, Jeremiah 12:14. Only a remnant will survive; Isaiah 29:4, Romans 9:27

 

[helmut]

I don't know if you have been watching the brexit activity in parliament the last week, but it has been astounding to watch.
...
What has this got to do with bible prophecy?

Nothing. Bible prophecy is no means to predict everything in the world.

Except the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2 will be not so unified in the end times.

Daniel prophesied the kingdoms until the coming of Christ (as OT prophets usual do, he did not distinguish between first and second coming of Christ. Christ has come, so the second kingdom (almost certainly Medo-Persia) is past.

Which leads me think that this discontent is going to push the EU to reorganize into the ten kings, leader, form of the government of Daniel 7's fourth kingdom.

The fourth kingdom was the Roman empire, which ruled (as Daniel has prophesied) when Jesus came.

It is not the beast of Revelation 13, which is depicted as an amalgation of all four beasts in Daniel 7, it has as many heads as the four beasts together. And (almost?) everybody agrees that the beasts in Dan 7 are the same as the kingdoms in Dan 2.

The Bible did not foretell the biggest empires in history: The Mongul empire of Genghis Khan and his sons, and the British empire. The Bible did not foretell he Muslim empire which ruled in Palestine longer than Rome ruled Judea.

Bible prophecy has a focus, and what is outside this focus is not mentioned. I don't see why I should look for "Brexit in Biblical prophecy".

 

[helmut]

Hey Elder Brother The scientists are predicting a micronova of our sun, and I can really see how that would devastate all of our technology and change our world dramatically. But I don't think it will be very soon

According to scientists, this will happen in about 5 billion years. You are right, it will not happen soon.

But I have the suspicion it will never take place since Jesus will come back sooner than in 5 billion years ...

 

[helmut]

Following the text of Ezekiel 38-39, walk me through the text of why I have it wrong.

Jesus said that we don't know the times or seasons when he comes back.

The Greek word translated by "times" refers to chronology: We can't calculate the day (and not even the year) when Jesus will come back. Anyone who makes such calculation is simply wrong, from the very start.

The Greek word translated by "seasons" refers to circumstances, or situation: Anyone who sets up an order of events until Jesus comes is wrong from the start: he tries to find out what we don't know, for it is no given to us.

The first error (calculating a date) is more often recognized as an error than the second error ("calculating" a scenario), but basically it is the same error - not giving heed what Jesus has said in Acts 1:8.

We are called to recognize the signs of the time, not the signs for future times. Bible prophecy is no world's history, it is admonishing and edifying of the Church.

So much of what has been posted here is simply nonsense (though there is some truth mixed in here and there), it is easy to predict that future will show most of the pseudo-biblical scenarios are wrong.

Let's be humble and not claim to know what Jesus Himself has said that we don't know it.