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ace of hearts

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Many of the errors you are seeing being taught in the established Churches are due to an incorrect understanding of verses of Scripture. When every person is their own infallible pope judging for themselves what Scripture teaches, then mostly errors prevail.
No many of the errors being taught a re unexamined fables based on air defending the status of religious leaders.
 
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ace of hearts

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Well, they're not idols because we worship the Holy Trinity in spirit and in Truth, and neither are saints who are venerated and whose prayerful intercessions asked for idols, for the same reason stated above. I don't particularly care if you venerate icons or ask prayers of saints, so long as you repent of all sins, whether in word, deed, or thought, and strive to keep that religion that is pure and holy before God, which is to "take care of widows and orphans in their distress".

Whether you're an enemy or not I don't know. What I do know, is that your spiritual perception (sight) and knowledge of the True God is not quite the same as mine. Iconoclasm is one fruit of such perception as yours. One fruit of our perceptions is the ability to live as taught by the Lord (see Matthew 25:31-46), and to not be quick to believe that the True God is offended by our having portraits of His children (our brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers in Christ) hanging about our homes and Churches, whom we bow to and kiss in humility and Love, or to otherwise believe our Good God is offended by our humbly asking prayers of his holy saints, because we know we are sinners needing God's grace. There is a vast difference between what we do and what idolaters do.
Yes our ideas (perceptions) about these matters are different. Maybe we follow different leaders.
 
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I think you're evangelizing here. If I wanted to know about your religion I'd be in that section of the forum asking question. In that you say much of your religion is aligned with Scripture you admit there is some that isn't. It's for that reason alone I'm not interested in your religion.
I think you're nitpicking here, "Much of" was a comparison of Orthodox knowledge and understanding of Scripture to a majority of others who are not of our fold. It didn't mean that any of our beliefs are not aligned with a True understanding of Scripture.

And it's for other reasons you're not interested in the our Faith, not in truth because our Faith is un-Scriptural. There are many factors and variables in play in the formation your perceptions, and underlie your every feeling and thought, which then take the form of judgments which could prove to be very detrimental to you. And this is not all, because amidst these processes there is the truth of Ephesians 6:12.
 
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Yes our ideas (perceptions) about these matters are different. Maybe we follow different leaders.
Iconoclasts aren't leaders that anyone ought to follow. They are mere hearers of God's Law but not doers. They hear only those things written in the law that they can judge others with, deeming themselves righteous in condemning those others for what they falsely perceive within their darkened minds and hearts to be idolatry, while never really practicing the weightier matters pointed to by God's Word. If they only really did as God says, then they would become as God is by His help (grace), and then they would have the eyes to see that iconography magnificently glorifies God above all that there is, in heaven or on earth.

We ought not to pay any attention to such leaders who have eyes, yet can't see and ears yet can't hear.
 
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The baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism have nothing in common.
They're one and the same, and have been since Christ's holy Apostles practiced it under Christ our Lord's direction, teaching the bishops they'd ordained as leaders to do so also. Just because God may sometimes Baptize those whom He saves by other means, does not mean that we shouldn't continue to Baptize in the established manner given us by the Lord and His Holy Apostles.
 
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ace of hearts

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I think you're nitpicking here, "Much of" was a comparison of Orthodox knowledge and understanding of Scripture to a majority of others who are not of our fold. It didn't mean that any of our beliefs are not aligned with a True understanding of Scripture.

And it's for other reasons you're not interested in the our Faith, not in truth because our Faith is un-Scriptural. There are many factors and variables in play in the formation your perceptions, and underlie your every feeling and thought, which then take the form of judgments which could prove to be very detrimental to you. And this is not all, because amidst these processes there is the truth of Ephesians 6:12.
When I first got on the net a long time ago. Some one told me I could not know until I engaged in their activity. This is exactly what you're trying to do.

Yes there are many factors of my education and analysis of what those educators expressed. How's that for not revealing the details?

I've read and evaluated what you've said here in this forum. What I need to express to you is I have absolutely no as in zero interest in your religion. What you've said further alienates me further from your religion.

When it comes to the fold I'm participating in, it's the one fold mentioned in JN 10:16. This isn't your fold (religion). I'm not saying you're not a Christian.

I've no idea what you mean by detrimental to me. Personally I see no value or reason from the scripture to take up the EO tradition. If you think it would have a positive effect on my relationship with God we'll be forever separated on this.
 
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ace of hearts

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Iconoclasts aren't leaders that anyone ought to follow. They are mere hearers of God's Law but not doers. They hear only those things written in the law that they can judge others with, deeming themselves righteous in condemning those others for what they falsely perceive within their darkened minds and hearts to be idolatry, while never really practicing the weightier matters pointed to by God's Word. If they only really did as God says, then they would become as God is by His help (grace), and then they would have the eyes to see that iconography magnificently glorifies God above all that there is, in heaven or on earth.

We ought not to pay any attention to such leaders who have eyes, yet can't see and ears yet can't hear.
I'm sorry that you think I'm an iconoclast. This section of the forum is for Christians. To me that means talking about Christianity, not organized religions. Yes I know you'll be irritated by such a statement. That's far from my reason for it.

I didn't bring up your religion for discussion. I however have played along with it because you seem to have a need to discuss it. So I've been what I think is polite about it.

So you can take issue if you like. Personally I'd appreciate if you'd take your religion issues else where. The OP is talking about organized religion generally. From my total experience in such matters, he's right on the money as we'd say in my part of the country.

And no I'm not making a request for you to leave.
 
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ace of hearts

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They're one and the same, and have been since Christ's holy Apostles practiced it under Christ our Lord's direction, teaching the bishops they'd ordained as leaders to do so also. Just because God may sometimes Baptize those whom He saves by other means, does not mean that we shouldn't continue to Baptize in the established manner given us by the Lord and His Holy Apostles.
Sorry but this is incorrect. Water baptism isn't the same as baptism in the Spirit. Please read Acts.
 
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I'm sorry that you think I'm an iconoclast. This section of the forum is for Christians. To me that means talking about Christianity, not organized religions. Yes I know you'll be irritated by such a statement. That's far from my reason for it.

I didn't bring up your religion for discussion. I however have played along with it because you seem to have a need to discuss it. So I've been what I think is polite about it.

So you can take issue if you like. Personally I'd appreciate if you'd take your religion issues else where. The OP is talking about organized religion generally. From my total experience in such matters, he's right on the money as we'd say in my part of the country.

And no I'm not making a request for you to not post in this thread.
I'm sorry if you think that there's a difference between Christianity and a Christian Church that is characterized by having a certain Christ ordained order (organization) to it, as evidenced in God's Word. I'm sorry that anyone thinks this way, because such thinking is clearly - disordered - as we'd say in my part of the country.

If you don't wish to continue discussing any issues of faith with me, then you certainly don't need to. That's up to you. I'm only responding to comments and replies you've made on my previous posts in order to engage in conversation that you seem to have the desire to engage in.
 
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Sorry but this is incorrect. Water baptism isn't the same as baptism in the Spirit. Please read Acts.
I already have read the Book of Acts, on many occasions, and keep it in context with all other Biblical accounts of and teachings on Baptism. Seeing in part is not understanding the whole of a matter, and unless we understand the whole of a matter we are nowise qualified to be teachers on such a matter, whether a teacher of ourselves or a teacher of others.
 
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ace of hearts

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I already have read the Book of Acts, on many occasions, and keep it in context with all other Biblical accounts of and teachings on Baptism. Seeing in part is not understanding the whole of a matter, and unless we understand the whole of a matter we are nowise qualified to be teachers on such a matter, whether a teacher of ourselves or a teacher of others.
This proves the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) isn't the same as baptism in water -

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
 
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ace of hearts

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I'm sorry if you think that there's a difference between Christianity and a Christian Church that is characterized by having a certain Christ ordained order (organization) to it, as evidenced in God's Word. I'm sorry that anyone thinks this way, because such thinking is clearly - disordered - as we'd say in my part of the country.
Don't think that what I said or intended others to think I said.
 
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This proves the baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) isn't the same as baptism in water -

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
The Holy Apostles still Baptized them with water in order to "fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15), as even our Lord Himself subjected Himself to water Baptism by his Prophet John, the holy Forerunner. If Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of God, with water, it is because the water and the Spirit is not meant to be separated. Hence, it is as I stated: these are two aspects (the water and the Spirit) of one Baptism. There is only one Baptism (Ephesians 4:4-6).
 
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ace of hearts

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The Holy Apostles still Baptized them with water in order to "fulfill all righteousness" (Matthew 3:15), as even our Lord Himself subjected Himself to water Baptism by his Prophet John, the holy Forerunner. If Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of God, with water, it is because the water and the Spirit is not meant to be separated. Hence, it is as I stated: these are two aspects (the water and the Spirit) of one Baptism. There is only one Baptism (Ephesians 4:4-6).
The one baptism in Eph 4 doesn't include two aspects of baptism. The reference is about water baptism only. Acts 10 talks about separate events concerning baptism.
 
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Don't think that what I said or intended others to think I said.
My point is that the OP denounces the leadership within Churches like the Orthodox Church and judges it to be corrupt and/or an incorrect practice. He judges them to be immoral based upon how they are distinguished by the particular kinds of garments that their office requires them to wear and because they are authority figures in their congregations who have a certain status that sets them apart from the other brothers and sisters. By your own admission you're basically in agreement with his point of view.
The one baptism in Eph 4 doesn't include two aspects of baptism. The reference is about water baptism only. Acts 10 talks about separate events concerning baptism.
No, the reference is about one Baptism, which is by water (actual H2O) and the Spirit, because there is only one body, one faith, and one Baptism that is the rite of entry into that one body and faith.
 
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