Sunday of Orthodoxy question

Monk Brendan

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Does everyone bring their ikons to Divine Liturgy?
In the Melkite parish we attend for Divine Liturgy, the children process with icons at the Entrances.
 
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All4Christ

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In the Melkite parish we attend for Divine Liturgy, the children process with icons at the Entrances.
We have the children process with the icons around the building
 
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Andrei D

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I'm having a lot of trouble with this today and had a very surprisingly bad reaction - instead of either trying to explain or even leave it for later, I got extremely mad, an anger that doesn't befit the topic. Very unbecoming. I am both ashamed and at a loss because I realize that I cannot by myself come up with a good supporting argument in favor of today. Anyone has a good resource about the icons controversy?
 
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ArmyMatt

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I'm having a lot of trouble with this today and had a very surprisingly bad reaction - instead of either trying to explain or even leave it for later, I got extremely mad, an anger that doesn't befit the topic. Very unbecoming. I am both ashamed and at a loss because I realize that I cannot by myself come up with a good supporting argument in favor of today. Anyone has a good resource about the icons controversy?

what do you mean by a good argument in favor of today?
 
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Andrei D

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I mean in favor of icons and celebrating the victory in a complicated political and bloody imperial conflict that is very unclear to me. I have never even thought about it too much and I grew up with icons being part of my "core identity" as it were. I never questioned them in any way. So I was completely taken aback when I had to defend them and was told they were anti-Christian, pagan, idolatry and that the events in from 7th century were actually evil. I am still reeling.

I feel like one of the folks I usually criticize because they have a certain position they believe 100% but they aren't ready to explain it.

And so instead, I starting yelling and screaming and talking about my emotions on the matter instead of my thoughts
 
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ArmyMatt

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I mean in favor of icons and celebrating the victory in a complicated political and bloody imperial conflict that is very unclear to me. I have never even thought about it too much and I grew up with icons being part of my "core identity" as it were. I never questioned them in any way. So I was completely taken aback when I had to defend them and was told they were anti-Christian, pagan, idolatry and that the events in from 7th century were actually evil. I am still reeling.

I feel like one of the folks I usually criticize because they have a certain position they believe 100% but they aren't ready to explain it.

And so instead, I starting yelling and screaming and talking about my emotions on the matter instead of my thoughts

well, that is just their ignorance. by that logic, Christ was a pagan since the Temple He went to had images in it.
 
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Varangian Christian

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I mean in favor of icons and celebrating the victory in a complicated political and bloody imperial conflict that is very unclear to me. I have never even thought about it too much and I grew up with icons being part of my "core identity" as it were. I never questioned them in any way. So I was completely taken aback when I had to defend them and was told they were anti-Christian, pagan, idolatry and that the events in from 7th century were actually evil. I am still reeling.

I feel like one of the folks I usually criticize because they have a certain position they believe 100% but they aren't ready to explain it.

And so instead, I starting yelling and screaming and talking about my emotions on the matter instead of my thoughts

There are resources all over the internet which easily refute those ignorant Iconoclasts. In fact why don't you read the writings of Saint John of Damascus, which are free online? Believe me, as someone who was an Iconoclast but months ago, it is a really stupid position not supported by Scripture let alone Church Tradition.

Here is a good little article on the subject easily refuting the nonsense:
Gabe Martini. An Orthodox Response to John Calvin on Icons: Icons and Idolatry

Now as for the historical drama, it was actually the Iconoclasts who bloodily persecuted the Iconodules! If violence was used by the government against Iconoclast heretics later, so what? Was Josiah evil for suppressing Baal worship by force, or Theodosius for suppressing paganism? No. Do not let anti-God modern ideas of Church and State shake your faith.
 
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All4Christ

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I mean in favor of icons and celebrating the victory in a complicated political and bloody imperial conflict that is very unclear to me. I have never even thought about it too much and I grew up with icons being part of my "core identity" as it were. I never questioned them in any way. So I was completely taken aback when I had to defend them and was told they were anti-Christian, pagan, idolatry and that the events in from 7th century were actually evil. I am still reeling.

I feel like one of the folks I usually criticize because they have a certain position they believe 100% but they aren't ready to explain it.

And so instead, I starting yelling and screaming and talking about my emotions on the matter instead of my thoughts
Father mentioned that today isn’t about triumphalism - it is about the restoration of what had always been held to be true. (That said, those who were supporters of iconography were often persecuted or killed - it wasn’t a good time in the Church.). Read some of St John of Damascus. Focus on the theological part of it - not the politics. The defense of iconography is at its core about the incarnation of Christ.
 
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I mean in favor of icons and celebrating the victory in a complicated political and bloody imperial conflict that is very unclear to me. I have never even thought about it too much and I grew up with icons being part of my "core identity" as it were. I never questioned them in any way. So I was completely taken aback when I had to defend them and was told they were anti-Christian, pagan, idolatry and that the events in from 7th century were actually evil. I am still reeling.

I feel like one of the folks I usually criticize because they have a certain position they believe 100% but they aren't ready to explain it.

And so instead, I starting yelling and screaming and talking about my emotions on the matter instead of my thoughts
Lord have mercy.

All I can say is that many of us are being put "through the wringer" this Lent ... it is humbling to consider my "urgent" prayer list. I have no real excuse for the difficulties I'm struggling with. But struggle many of us are right now. I don't think it's surprising so I hope you won't beat yourself up too much over it.

I don't have the historical or theological data to add anything to what everyone has already said (though I've heard these things). I take comfort also in the faithful who maintained the truth that had always been, and finally were able to restore the icons according to their consciences.

God be with you and yours. And it's good to see you on the forum. :)
 
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