The Pastor King (New)

[truefiction1]

You said prelest to which I responded. Now you bring in pride which I made no mention of. So I'm asking why?

The reason why, is that a person is deceived into spiritual delusion (prelest) only because of the evil passion of pride with which they are afflicted and need to be healed of.

 

[truefiction1]

Sorry but that's not how I recognize a man of the cloth (religious leader). I know them by association.

If you didn't know them by association, and they were a total stranger to you and to those you associate with, then you wouldn't know if they are a man of the cloth, unless they wore specific clothing to denote that they are.

 

[ace of hearts]

You teach a false Christ after your own "tradition". The Christ of the Bible and of the Church does not teach the faithful that religious ritual is evil and is to be done away with. On the contrary... It is He Who proscribed it in the first place (as the Word of God which came to Moses). You teach a lord that debases and discards all ritualistic forms of worship. We teach of a Lord of the Bible Who never did any such thing Himself, nor taught others to do so.

Please show us in the Bible where it is forbidden for the faithful to practice ritualistic forms of worship. Especially when Jesus says this: "You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.…" with regards to the keeping of practices. The ritual of breaking bread and drinking the fruit of the vine and calling it the body and blood of Christ is Chief and was given directly by Jesus in the Gospels, The Bible itself is where the other rituals are derived that are observed in the Church.

It is only you who are giving more weight to the traditions of men (your own traditions), and are ignoring half of what Jesus Christ says. The real Jesus Christ kept religious rituals, observed them, and demonstrated the value of them by commanding His own disciples to observe them. This Holy Tradition from Christ and the Apostles we have. You have only your own traditions which you've invented through erred interpretations of Scripture and the inspiration of demons.

Your religion is man made, and all your traditions are merely traditions of men. From water-less baptism to last supper memorials void of the true presence of Christ -- all traditions of men, merely alleged to be based on truth, but distortions is all they really are.

I'm a little curious here sense you talk about baptism. Do you still baptize people after the manner of the early church? If so I'd like to witness such a rite first hand.

 

[ace of hearts]

No, They knew nothing of Eastern Orthodox teaching and were merely rebelling because of things that came about due to Roman innovations. There has never been a protestant reformation in the Orthodox Church. The western reformation started out as an attempt by some to remove what they thought were sources of corruption of the Church, but wound up being an angry mob rebelling against the establishment, tearing down statues in the public square and destroying all the symbols of religious authority. It is about using Christ's words to justify rebellion and the creation of a religion where every individual with a Bible is the pope. A lot of hatred and murder and evil took place. But this is because of what is in the hearts of men. The Reforms' leaders themselves fell into prelest and had taught many a demonic lie on account of it. The idolatry was in their own hearts, they projected their own idolatry onto the use of symbols in the Church so as to have a means by which to condemn something outside of themselves rather than repenting of the evil in their own hearts. The idolatry remains fully intact within the hearts of those doing the same thing today --
THAT MEANS YOU.

Using physical matter in the forms of rituals and symbolic, bodily expressions of the Faith is not idolatry. Being deceived by demons into believing that it is, is a sign of "weak conscience". The reforms leaders gathered to themselves followers who could be easily swayed because of their "weak consciences" and carnal (not spiritual) minds.

We use physical matter as means by which we Commune with God. Physical matter is not opposed to spirituality. Your teachings about the inappropriateness of physical rituals and other physical expressions of the Faith (i.e. your iconoclasm) set up a religion that opposes spirit and matter, and you cite Christ as the teacher of this dualism of spirit against matter (John 6:63). The True Christ is the one Who created physical matter in the first place, so that His creature "man" would be a composite of soul "and physical body", who would Commune with God using "created physical matter" as the medium for this Eternal Communion. Man is not left a body-less spirit in heaven. Man is to be resurrected in the body and forever eat and drink in the heavenly banquet where Christ (the Word of God and the Bread of Life) is the food. The death and resurrection of the Lamb will be remembered and praised forever and ever.

Please show us in the Bible where it is forbidden for the faithful to use the material created by God as a way to worship (Commune with) Him.

I find most people who attend religious activities to be very weak minded people unable and or unwilling to talk about or defend their faith (religious belief structure).

 

[ace of hearts]

Long term reviews of house churches find they grow slowly because of lack of elders.

It seems to be an insurmountable problem and many units are tempted to hire at least one seminary trained leader in a salaried capacity.

Similar to the insurmountable situation until God opened the eyes of Elisha's helper to the resources of God. The chariots don't carry people, although Elijah was taken away in one. They are symbols of God's power, understandable to men.

2 Kings 6:15-17
15Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was circling the city. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” 16So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”17Then Elisha prayed and said, “O LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the LORD opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

I can't connect your words and the passage you quoted. Elijah was not carried away in a chariot. 2 Kin 2:11.

 

[truefiction1]

I find most people who attend religious activities to be very weak minded people unable and or unwilling to talk about or defend their faith (religious belief structure).

It's true, what you've observed with a lot of people. By the time I was almost 20 (having been brought to Church by my mother from childhood though I didn't care much for it) I, for example, was unable to defend the Divinity of Christ against heretical Jehovah's Witness attacks against it, then I read the early Christian writings of Athanasius, who defended the Church's belief in Christ's Divinity against the Arian crisis of the early fourth century AD. We only begin to learn and to understand when something happens that makes it a life and death matter to us.

On the other hand, I find that most people who join new Christian groups tend to be at far greater risk of succumbing to cult tactics and coming under the influence of false prophets, teachers, and dangerous leaders (like Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Watchtower (JW), etc.).

 

[truefiction1]

I'm a little curious here sense you talk about baptism. Do you still baptize people after the manner of the early church? If so I'd like to witness such a rite first hand.

Preferably, and wherever conditions don't prevent it, full triple immersion in water in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The rite is immediately preceded by exorcism and followed by the rite of Chrismation with oil, as a sign of the seal of the Holy Spirit.

If, say, a Christian, who is a nurse or something, saw a need to perform the rite of Baptism on a newborn baby in a hospital setting in a case where the child was close to death, then they could simply pour small amounts of water on the baby's head three times, the first time for the Father, the second for the Son, and the third time for the Holy Spirit. This sort of thing is only done when there is an emergency of some kind with very little time to prepare.

 

[ace of hearts]

It's true, what you've observed with a lot of people. By the time I was almost 20 (having been brought to Church by my mother from childhood though I didn't care much for it) I, for example, was unable to defend the Divinity of Christ against heretical Jehovah's Witness attacks against it, then I read the early Christian writings of Athanasius, who defended the Church's belief in Christ's Divinity against the Arian crisis of the early fourth century AD. We only begin to learn and to understand when something happens that makes it a life and death matter to us.

On the other hand, I find that most people who join new Christian groups tend to be at far greater risk of succumbing to cult tactics and coming under the influence of false prophets, teachers, and dangerous leaders (like Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Watchtower (JW), etc.).

I find people in established churches being taught error from the pulpit and peers especially by social pressures.

 

[ace of hearts]

Preferably, and wherever conditions don't prevent it, full triple immersion in water in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The rite is immediately preceded by exorcism and followed by the rite of Chrismation with oil, as a sign of the seal of the Holy Spirit.

If, say, a Christian, who is a nurse or something, saw a need to perform the rite of Baptism on a newborn baby in a hospital setting in a case where the child was close to death, then they could simply pour small amounts of water on the baby's head three times, the first time for the Father, the second for the Son, and the third time for the Holy Spirit. This sort of thing is only done when there is an emergency of some kind with very little time to prepare.

So your practice isn't what the early church did.

 

[ace of hearts]

If you didn't know them by association, and they were a total stranger to you and to those you associate with, then you wouldn't know if they are a man of the cloth, unless they wore specific clothing to denote that they are.

I wouldn't have a problem locating a man of the cloth in a foreign environment. But I'm not much into men of the cloth. Personally I can't think of any reason I'd be in need of one. Jesus and my Father take very good care of me. GLORY!!!!

 

[ace of hearts]

It's true, what you've observed with a lot of people. By the time I was almost 20 (having been brought to Church by my mother from childhood though I didn't care much for it) I, for example, was unable to defend the Divinity of Christ against heretical Jehovah's Witness attacks against it, then I read the early Christian writings of Athanasius, who defended the Church's belief in Christ's Divinity against the Arian crisis of the early fourth century AD. We only begin to learn and to understand when something happens that makes it a life and death matter to us.

On the other hand, I find that most people who join new Christian groups tend to be at far greater risk of succumbing to cult tactics and coming under the influence of false prophets, teachers, and dangerous leaders (like Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Watchtower (JW), etc.).

To do this all you have to do is read the Scripture. It does help if you study and pray.

Before the age of 18 I could debate some easy errors with the learned preacher.

 

[truefiction1]

So your practice isn't what the early church did.

How do you figure?
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19)

 

[truefiction1]

To do this all you have to do is read the Scripture. It does help if you study and pray.

Many of the errors you are seeing being taught in the established Churches are due to an incorrect understanding of verses of Scripture. When every person is their own infallible pope judging for themselves what Scripture teaches, then mostly errors prevail.

 

[ace of hearts]

How do you figure?
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19)

Obviously you're not up on the subject. I just thought I'd ask since you made mention of it and are so hot on the Apostolic teaching and practices of the early church. Turns out to be not quite correct. Discussing it with you would only lead to more argument and self defense.

 

[ace of hearts]

Many of the errors you are seeing being taught in the established Churches are due to an incorrect understanding of verses of Scripture. When every person is their own infallible pope judging for themselves what Scripture teaches, then mostly errors prevail.

No many things taught in churches are what is required by upper level leadership, unchallenged and undefendable with Scripture. More on the order of old wives fables.

 

[truefiction1]

No many things taught in churches are what is required by upper level leadership, unchallenged and undefendable with Scripture. More on the order of old wives fables.

Much of what is taught in Orthodox Christianity is more aligned with a True understanding of Scripture than you can even begin to know at this point. Many of us can defend every aspect of our belief and practice from Scripture.

Did you know that a Jehovah's witness can defend the act of self-righteous suicide through the refusal of receiving a medical blood transfusion when the consequences of not doing so are most assuredly death? and that they defend this with Scripture? (see Leviticus 17) A lot of things are defended with Scripture which are purely evil, and a horrible abomination in God's sight. Many things which are unimaginably good and holy in God's sight are attacked by people quoting Scripture.

Do you care to know how we can come to know what is evil and what is good in God's sight? The answer is simple: become, by God's grace (by the Holy Spirit), as God is by His nature. That is the Orthodox Christian Way: "To know Thee, the only God, and Jesus Whom Thou hast sent".

 

[truefiction1]

Obviously you're not up on the subject. I just thought I'd ask since you made mention of it and are so hot on the Apostolic teaching and practices of the early church. Turns out to be not quite correct. Discussing it with you would only lead to more argument and self defense.

I think I've already had this discussion with another person in this thread, who believes that Holy Spirit Baptism should not involve anything like water, whereas the Bible clearly indicates that the Apostles did use a Baptismal rite in water. Like I said, Scripture alone just leads to many disagreements, even among yourselves.

 

[ace of hearts]

Much of what is taught in Orthodox Christianity is more aligned with a True understanding of Scripture than you can even begin to know at this point. Many of us can defend every aspect of our belief and practice from Scripture.

Did you know that a Jehovah's witness can defend the act of self-righteous suicide through the refusal of receiving a medical blood transfusion when the consequences of not doing so are most assuredly death? and that they defend this with Scripture? (see Leviticus 17) A lot of things are defended with Scripture which are purely evil, and a horrible abomination in God's sight. Many things which are unimaginably good and holy in God's sight are attacked by people quoting Scripture.

Do you care to know how we can come to know what is evil and what is good in God's sight? The answer is simple: become, by God's grace (by the Holy Spirit), as God is by His nature. That is the Orthodox Christian Way: "To know Thee, the only God, and Jesus Whom Thou hast sent".

I think you're evangelizing here. If I wanted to know about your religion I'd be in that section of the forum asking question. In that you say much of your religion is aligned with Scripture you admit there is some that isn't. It's for that reason alone I'm not interested in your religion.

 

[ace of hearts]

I think I've already had this discussion with another person in this thread, who believes that Holy Spirit Baptism should not involve anything like water, whereas the Bible clearly indicates that the Apostles did use a Baptismal rite in water. Like I said, Scripture alone just leads to many disagreements, even among yourselves.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism have nothing in common.

 

[ace of hearts]

How do you figure?
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19)

Well at least you got the formula down.