Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

[NBB]

All I can say is search the Scriptures. Be objective and look at both sides of the issue objectively by Scripture alone and do not be biased based on an experience or experiences. I believe God can operate in our lives using imperfect people sometimes. For example: A person can be saved by hearing prosperity preacher on TV. That does not mean the prosperity preacher is correct in all of what he teaches.

Yes obviously i am a little biased because i started my relationship with God in a pentecostal church, what would happen if i went, God did not fill me there, nothing happened then i would have gone out and keep living my life as if nothing probably. A few words by the pastor and some music would have not changed me much.

But God decided to manifest himself in such a church...

Also remember that the bible talks about 'experiences', Abraham obeyed and believed God with experiences, Moses was given the law with 'experiences' and Paul learned the gospel trough 'experiences' so for me its best a touch from God himself than millions of spoken words.

 

[NBB]

I know a Baptist pastor who was in the pentecostal church for fifteen years, During that time, he said he attended hundreds of "healing meetings" but never saw one healing.

At least they were looking for God to do something...

 

[BCsenior]

Okay, let's go through this again ...

Spirit-filled BACs lay hands of people and pray
"in the name of Jesus" for someone to be healed.

Lo and behold, the person is instantly healed.
Obviously, Jesus has just been glorified
(not to mention Father God)!

Oh, and all of the NT teachings on all of this
sort of thing have just been confirmed as well.

So, why would Satan be caught dead (or alive)
doing this?

I'm already beginning to laugh at the answers.
But, bring them on ... I love to laugh!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes obviously i am a little biased because i started my relationship with God in a pentecostal church, what would happen if i went, God did not fill me there, nothing happened then i would have gone out and keep living my life as if nothing probably. A few words by the pastor and some music would have not changed me much.

But God decided to manifest himself in such a church...

Also remember that the bible talks about 'experiences', Abraham obeyed and believed God with experiences, Moses was given the law with 'experiences' and Paul learned the gospel trough 'experiences' so for me its best a touch from God himself than millions of spoken words.

Jesus said blessed are they that don’t see and yet believe (John 20:29). Faith is not something that is based on sight (see Hebrews 11:1). Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Miracles are something you can see. The Word of God is a faith thing.

As I said before, God can use imperfect means to bring us to Him. But God ultimately wants faith from us and not a trust in what our eyes can see. For without faith, it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

A problem I have with the Continuationism is that the argument seems to be based more on experience rather than what Scripture says. Hence why I get a lot of emotional responses and not Scripture on this topic. While I do not doubt God does miracles and He changes us spiritually, I believe this is in our response to His Word (Which is faith). The more I study on this topic in Scripture the more sure I see Cessationism and not Continuationism.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay, let's go through this again ...

Spirit-filled BACs lay hands of people and pray
"in the name of Jesus" for someone to be healed.

Lo and behold, the person is instantly healed.
Obviously, Jesus has just been glorified
(not to mention Father God)!

Oh, and all of the NT teachings on all of this
sort of thing have just been confirmed as well.

So, why would Satan be caught dead (or alive)
doing this?

I'm already beginning to laugh at the answers.
But, bring them on ... I love to laugh!

So this happens at your church?
They heal miraculously like the early church apostles. Sometimes it was just speaking and they were healed or it was a shadow of an apostle that healed people. Paul was able to heal by the use of people touching his garments. This still happens at your church? Even Paul appeared to be unable to heal later in his life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, do you believe the gift of apostles is still in effect? If not, then you believe in a form of Cessationism and you are not being consistent with Continuationism.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

At least they were looking for God to do something...

But if they call it healing meetings and no one gets healed, it is dishonest to call it a healing meeting.

 

[NBB]

Jesus said blessed are they that don’t see and yet believe (John 20:29). Faith is not something that is based on sight (see Hebrews 11:1). Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Miracles are something you can see. The Word of God is a faith thing.

As I said before, God can use imperfect means to bring us to Him. But God ultimately wants faith from us and not a trust in what our eyes can see. For without faith, it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).

A problem I have with the Continuationism is that the argument seems to be based more on experience rather than what Scripture says. Hence why I get a lot of emotional responses and not Scripture on this topic. While I do not doubt God does miracles and He changes us spiritually, I believe this is in our response to His Word (Which is faith). The more I study on this topic in Scripture the more sure I see Cessationism and not Continuationism.

Experiences only increases your faith in God. God is not going to 'feed' you enough anyway to walk by 'sight all the time', you are going to need the faith.

Nobody says scripture is wrong, but if you had the gift of prophecy then to use it, it will need to be an 'experience' in your interior, the bible can't help much there because that is the way the gift is, is something that God gives you that is not written in the bible.

And i repeat Paul learnt the gospel all by 'experiences' so there is nothing wrong with true experiences.

Its almost sad if a christian lives without experiencing a bit from God at least, there must be something going on from God in our lives from time to time at least!. We are his people and he does things!.

 

[BCsenior]

Okay, let's go through this again ...

Spirit-filled BACs lay hands of people and pray
"in the name of Jesus" for someone to be healed.

Lo and behold, the person is instantly healed.
Obviously, Jesus has just been glorified
(not to mention Father God)!

Oh, and all of the NT teachings on all of this
sort of thing have just been confirmed as well.

So, why would Satan be caught dead (or alive)
doing this?

Signs, wonders, and miracles (SWMs) of ALL kinds
have been happening all over the world for decades

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Experiences only increases your faith in God. God is not going to 'feed' you enough anyway to walk by 'sight all the time', you are going to need the faith.

Bible verse please.

Nobody says scripture is wrong, but if you had the gift of prophecy then to use it, it will need to be an 'experience' in your interior, the bible can't help much there because that is the way the gift is, is something that God gives you that is not written in the bible.

Revelation 22:18-19 says we are not to add to His Word. This is why Extra biblical revelation is a problem and a danger. It’s how cults are formed.

And i repeat Paul learnt the gospel all by 'experiences' so there is nothing wrong with true experiences.

Its almost sad if a christian lives without experiencing a bit from God at least, there must be something going on from God in our lives from time to time at least!. We are his people and he does things!.

God does operate in our lives but it is by His Word.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay, let's go through this again ...

Spirit-filled BACs lay hands of people and pray
"in the name of Jesus" for someone to be healed.

Lo and behold, the person is instantly healed.
Obviously, Jesus has just been glorified
(not to mention Father God)!

Oh, and all of the NT teachings on all of this
sort of thing have just been confirmed as well.

So, why would Satan be caught dead (or alive)
doing this?

Signs, wonders, and miracles (SWMs) of ALL kinds
have been happening all over the world for decades

You are ignoring the points I brought up. Please address them.

 

[NBB]

Bible verse please.

Is obvoius that faith increases when something happens.
You believe because you saw? said Jesus to the disciple.

And God is going to test your faith and fidelity, so i don't think is even possible to walk by sight with God. Moses had the column of fire day and night, but im sure his faith was more than tested even with those things.

Revelation 22:18-19 says we are not to add to His Word. This is why Extra biblical revelation is a problem and a danger. It’s how cults are formed.

Nobody that had a true experience with God is going to contradict scripture, if cults are formed its not because of something God told or revealed, God doesn't contradict himself. And it is not neccesary to write in the bible the things God says or do to chistians today.
You are willing to discard true manifestations of God because there are false ones?

God does operate in our lives but it is by His Word.

I don't know what you mean that God operates trough scripture, but christians should have an active relationship with God... if God does nothing in someone life then where is his leadership and care and plan for our life, the cleansing of our sins and deliverance of the devil and comfort of the Spirit etc etc.

 

[David Kent]

Is obvoius that faith increases when something happens.
You believe because you saw? said Jesus to the disciple.

You didn't finish the quotation

• John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

As you surely know many saw the miracles of Jesus by were not saved. So it is false theology to say anyone will be saved by seeing signs.

I don't know what you mean that God operates trough scripture, but christians should have an active relationship with God... if God does nothing in someone life then where is his leadership and care and plan for our life, the cleansing of our sins and deliverance of the devil and comfort of the Spirit etc etc.

• Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

His spoken message is in the bible.

As to so called tongues today, they are gibberish, not tongues. Tongues in scripture were understandable languages.There have been cases of people speaking in real understandable languages that they did not know, but have proved to be false.

A question for you. Do you think that today's prophecies are the words of God?

 

[NBB]

You didn't finish the quotation

• John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

As you surely know many saw the miracles of Jesus by were not saved. So it is false theology to say anyone will be saved by seeing signs.

• Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

His spoken message is in the bible.

As to so called tongues today, they are gibberish, not tongues. Tongues in scripture were understandable languages.There have been cases of people speaking in real understandable languages that they did not know, but have proved to be false.

A question for you. Do you think that today's prophecies are the words of God?

I wrote my testimony a few posts back, and when i met God was because he filled me with the Holy spirit, if he had not done that, i don't think the words of the pastor or the music etc. of 100 reunions would have convinced me that God is a personal God that interacts with people and not some distant thing with a religion for old people only.
I received Jesus when i was 4 so he took my word seriously about that but i never knew he was so close to us until that happened.

So, despise 'experiences' if you want while other people are receiving from God himself. Bad thing to do... eh.

You should try to leave the door open to what God is capable of doing, myself i don't have experience with tongues, except my mother do it sometimes when she prays alone (she is not crazy) you are doing a disservice saying that is gibberish without knowing you should give the benefit of the doubt just in case, but i have experience with a pastor that prophetized, or had a science word i can't tell, he said several things to me, and all of them were true and specific about me, and he didn't even knew me. It was most impressive. So you would do a good thing to not speak against what you never experienced yourself and you are giving just opinions while other people have experience on this.

Anyway there is always in this kind of debates the ones that say something happened to them, and the others not believing a single word, so i don't know why i waste my time.

 

[Saint Steven]

I know a Baptist pastor who was in the pentecostal church for fifteen years, During that time, he said he attended hundreds of "healing meetings" but never saw one healing.

What does a "healing" look like?

 

[Saint Steven]

At least they were looking for God to do something...

Even Cessationists believe in the prayer of faith that heals the sick. So, who are they criticizing exactly?

 

[Saint Steven]

But if they call it healing meetings and no one gets healed, it is dishonest to call it a healing meeting.

That's a cheap shot. Only God can heal.
Is it dishonest for God not to show up and do what he is supposed to?

 

[Saint Steven]

A question for you. Do you think that today's prophecies are the words of God?

Our responsibility as believers is to weigh a word of prophecy to decide whether we believe it is or not.

Best advice: Eat the meat and spit out the bones.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is obvoius that faith increases when something happens.
You believe because you saw? said Jesus to the disciple.

No.

"...blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29).

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
(Hebrews 11:1).

And God is going to test your faith and fidelity, so i don't think is even possible to walk by sight with God. Moses had the column of fire day and night, but im sure his faith was more than tested even with those things.

24 "By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;" (Hebrews 11:24-25).

Nobody that had a true experience with God is going to contradict scripture, if cults are formed its not because of something God told or revealed, God doesn't contradict himself. And it is not neccesary to write in the bible the things God says or do to chistians today.
You are willing to discard true manifestations of God because there are false ones?

It's because:

(a) The Bible teaches repeatedly about Cessationism.
(b) We do not see the continued operation of those gifts today. Nobody can heal with their shadow. Nobody can send out their clothes and heal others. Nobody can just speak and they are healed from a major problem they had since birth. Nobody is writing new Scripture as prophecy (like the book of Revelation). The Bible is a closed system for this dispensation or age.

I don't know what you mean that God operates trough scripture,

We are saved by our responding to the gospel and accepting Jesus as our Savior. There is a noticeable change spiritually in our heart and lives. Where the Bible was a dead book to us before, it is spiritually alive to us as born again believers in Christ. God talks to us in every day life situations involving His Word. God may speak a message to us with a repeated verse or passage with a video sermon online, and then again with a life situation in nature, and then later again with a Scripture verse on the radio. By the power of GOD, we are able to live a holy or righteous life for the LORD (according to His commands).

but christians should have an active relationship with God... if God does nothing in someone life then where is his leadership and care and plan for our life, the cleansing of our sins and deliverance of the devil and comfort of the Spirit etc etc.

I am not discounting that believers cannot pray and there can be a miracle that can happen hours or days later, or that believers cannot cast out demons in Jesus name. What I am saying is that the miraculous miracles like Jesus and the apostles did have more than likely ceased. For we do not see these miracles being done as exactly as the early church did them. Most today do not even speak in tongues in a biblical way and they get future prophecies wrong, and they really do not heal like the early was able to heal. Even Paul was unable to heal towards the end of his life (Which was unlike when he first did in the early phase of his life in service to the Lord). Paul was able to send out his clothes to heal people, and yet towards the end of his life he written a letter to Timothy to drink a little wine for the infirmities of his stomach. Why didn't Paul include a healing cloth with the letter?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's a cheap shot. Only God can heal.
Is it dishonest for God not to show up and do what he is supposed to?

No. It's not a cheap shot at all. It is merely the truth. If they are claiming it as a healing meeting and no actual healing takes place at the meeting, than it is not exactly true that it is a healing meeting. The early apostles were able to heal 100% of the time. Nobody was left unhealed when they healed others. Peter was able to heal with just his shadow. Does that still happen today? To my knowledge this would be.... "no." Granted, anything is possible and God could be doing this somewhere, but if we do not see it openly happening as it was publicized within His Word, then that means that things have changed to some capacity since the early church. Remember, the gift of healing was something that was a gift given to others. It is just strange that we see a bunch of people have the gift of tongues, and yet, we do not see the other gifts in as equal force.