The elect

[Gregory Thompson]

Just what list are you talking about?

The list the people in the prayer meeting would keep of people who are not saved, so they pray for their salvation, this became confusing when someone who was saved ended up on it. Lots of churches keep a list like that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

"The elect" is not equivalent to "the saved".

Kindly elaborate

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I can't tell if you are trying to be funny or sarcastic. Seems hard to believe you are serious.

But to deal with the question, read the Bible. It uses the word, "elect" and that is where we get it. For starters, though, it means "chosen". God is the one who chooses. And he did this from the beginning, not like he looked out over us and chose the best of us, but he has a "project" in mind --the Bride of Christ-- and he chose the members of that Bride --the elect.

And he didn't do it because they deserve it or because there is anything better about them than anyone else, but only according to his own purposes.

I had a confusing memory so I threw it out there for theological discussion. Some of the "works for salvation" threads had a similar feel. So I wondered where the forum stood on this. Thank you for responding.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, the people at the prayer meeting are gossips who have nothing better to do with their time and prayers so they gossip about who is saved or not saved in their opinion.


They do not know they just offer their opinions and gossip.


No, nothing so organised and systematic, they just offer opinions and gossip and that is the whole point of the exercise. Just to gossip about other people who are not present.



They have a list?

Yeah I thought something was going on that wasn't right. Sometimes my memories of places come back and I just need to confirm it probably shouldn't have happened. Thanks for responding.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't know where you are on the spectrum, how do you understand John 6:44 and 65?

The passages indicate How God Chooses everyone who believes in Jesus. Since the narrative was written to an audience who wasn't there/eyewitnesses, it would seem to imply it applies to all believers.

 

[SinoBen]

Kindly elaborate

not all elect are saved

 

[Gregory Thompson]

not all elect are saved

Interesting,

I was curious what you meant. I read a number of things of "the chosen" over the years in the scripture. Could've went either way.

There's an angle that implies that the elect are really just a group chosen from among those who are saved. And the teaching that the elect are the saved, is causing people stress for no good reason.

 

[SinoBen]

Interesting,

I was curious what you meant. I read a number of things of "the chosen" over the years in the scripture. Could've went either way.

There's an angle that implies that the elect are really just a group chosen from among those who are saved. And the teaching that the elect are the saved, is causing people stress for no good reason.

Exactly... why posit a position that causes stress when you don't have to. The elect are a chosen group but some falls away. Israel is the chosen elect, but not all are "remnants".

 

[Hammster]

Whether it is personal or impersonal really has no bearing on it.

It very much does. The elect, as you see it, is not His friend. He didn’t lay down His life for an idea.

 

[HTacianas]

It very much does. The elect, as you see it, is not His friend. He didn’t lay down His life for an idea.

"Idea" is something you are introducing into the discussion. In another post we discussed Exodus 32 and its relation to predestination. God was about to wipe out the Israelites -the elect- and replace them with the descendants of Moses. The meaning is that there were no elect individuals, only an elect group through whom God would fulfill His promise to Abraham.

 

[Hammster]

"Idea" is something you are introducing into the discussion. In another post we discussed Exodus 32 and its relation to predestination. God was about to wipe out the Israelites -the elect- and replace them with the descendants of Moses. The meaning is that there were no elect individuals, only an elect group through whom God would fulfill His promise to Abraham.

However you want to categorize it, it’s the same thing. “Elect” is impersonal to you, so you cannot say that Christ laid down His life for His friends.

 

[HTacianas]

However you want to categorize it, it’s the same thing. “Elect” is impersonal to you, so you cannot say that Christ laid down His life for His friends.

His friends have just as good a chance as anyone else.

 

[Hammster]

His friends have just as good a chance as anyone else.

Wow. What a friend.

 

[Hammster]

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30

Personal.

 

[Mark Dohle]

Thlis question is understandable, but really, in scripture there can be found a thread to just about back up any theory about salvation, who is saved and who is not. We are told not to judge by Jesus for a reason, I think this thread, understandable as it is, point to why we should not judge.

Chrristianity is a tower of Babel at this time, so many, each with their bible, making up an arsenal to prove their point, against someone else with another set of quotes.

It is our human nature (sarx) to seek to have an in and an out group.....of course we all want to be in the 'in' group. I believe that God wills the salvation of everyone, to walk away from that isa choice made on a level that only God and the soul (at the time of death) knows.

Peace
Mark

 

[Hammster]

Thlis question is understandable, but really, in scripture there can be found a thread to just about back up any theory about salvation, who is saved and who is not. We are told not to judge by Jesus for a reason, I think this thread, understandable as it is, point to why we should not judge.

Chrristianity is a tower of Babel at this time, so many, each with their bible, making up an arsenal to prove their point, against someone else with another se to quotes.

It is our human nature (sarx) to seek to have an in and an out group.....of course we all want to be in the 'in' group. I believe that God wills the salvation of everyone, to walk away from that isa choice made on a level that only God and the soul (at the time of death) knows.

Peace
Mark

I guess you have a thread in scripture to back up that theory.

 

[Residential Bob]

Which leaves us at the original question: Who are the elect?

The elect appear to have been a remnant of Israel (Rv 7:4).

 

[redleghunter]

So by all means tell us about the individuals.

You made the original claim so we await your exposition.

 

[FenderTL5]

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:28-30

Personal.

That's no more, or less, personal than Israel being God's chosen.

For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be His own treasure out of all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 14: 2

"Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine"
Exodus 19:5.

"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you."
Genesis 17:7

If I were to presume; I would presume that the Apostle Paul used the word 'elect' instead of 'chosen' intentionally because he was arguing against Judaizers. The subtle change was one of being inclusive of the Gentiles.
Both are essentially referring to the same group with Gentiles being grafted in to believing, obedient Israel.

 

[Hammster]

That's no more, or less, personal than Israel being God's chosen.

For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be His own treasure out of all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 14: 2

"Now therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto me from all the peoples, for all the earth is mine"
Exodus 19:5.

"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you."
Genesis 17:7

If I were to presume; I would presume that the Apostle Paul used the word 'elect' instead of 'chosen' intentionally because he was arguing against Judaizers. The subtle change was one of being inclusive of the Gentiles.
Both are essentially referring to the same group with Gentiles being grafted in to believing, obedient Israel.

It is actually more. Just because Israel was God’s chosen people, it doesn’t minimize the personal language Paul uses. So you cannot dismiss one because of the other.