'Captain Marvel' presale tickets have already outpaced those of 'Wonder Woman'

[Larniavc]

I said this years ago, that as long as Stan Lee was alive the MCU would adhere to the core material but as soon as he was gone the movies would begin to reflect typical Hollywood agenda driven crap. They might as well call this movie Captain Social Justice Warrior.

Stan Lee was basically a social justice warrior of his time.

Even JJJ (who was written as a more bombastic hard headed Stan) was against any kind of social injustice.

 

[Sistrin]

Stan Lee was basically a social justice warrior of his time.

The difference is clear. The form of social justice Lee and others of that time promoted embraced the standard of lifting others up to achieve equality, of actually improving people's lives. Today's SJW crowd is concerned with no such nuance. They are largely comprised of people motivated by hate seeking to destroy.

 

[RDKirk]

Having now seen the movie:

It was not unentertaining. Unlike, say, "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets" or "Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone," I was not moved to walk out of the theater.

Unlike "Wonder Woman," it gave me no feelz with its story. Unlike "Aquaman," it didn't impress me with cinematography and CGI.

I'd rate it equal in quality to "Antman." Thus, it would be a great movie to watch on Netflix.

Exreme Feminist influences:

The first extreme feminist influence I notice, and the one I hate most is the deprecation of male characters. A story can have strong female characters, and those can even carry the story (such as with Amazon's "The Expanse").

But when the story requires all the male characters to be villains, incompetents, comic relief, "damsels in distress," or just plot devices, there is extreme feminism involved.

There is that in this movie. Nick Fury, for instance, is reduced to comic relief. Samuel L Jackson is perfectly willing to play comic relief if the check cashes, and he does so here--very well. He's quite good at it, and he's good at it in this movie.

But the Nick Fury character is deprecated to comic relief. Most annoying was the reduction to absurdity of how he lost his eye. Rather than having lost it in some significant fight against some significant enemy, he lost his eye merely to a stupid cat scratch that he failed to get examined.

None of the male characters in this movie are worth a boy emulating, nor do they even provide substantive support to the women as even worthwhile wingmen or sidekicks.

 

[RDKirk]

The difference is clear. The form of social justice Lee and others of that time promoted embraced the standard of lifting others up to achieve equality, of actually improving people's lives. Today's SJW crowd is concerned with no such nuance. They are largely comprised of people motivated by hate seeking to destroy.

The key distinction of a "Social Justice Warrior" in my opinion is whether that person's strategy to social justice is to deprecate (reduce to a level of less than equality) one in order to elevate the other. It's a view that the world is a zero-sum game, rather than a pie large enough for everyone to have a piece.

In this way, "social justice" for extreme feminists is different from that of the Civil Rights era--even different from feminists of the Civil Rights era. The concept of the Civil Rights Era was "the pie is big enough for everyone to get a slice."

The concept of extreme feminists is, "Turnabout is the only fair play. We didn't get a slice before, so you don't get a slice now."

 

[Larniavc]

The difference is clear. The form of social justice Lee and others of that time promoted embraced the standard of lifting others up to achieve equality, of actually improving people's lives. Today's SJW crowd is concerned with no such nuance. They are largely comprised of people motivated by hate seeking to destroy.

How can you tell?

 

[LiberalChristian1980]

The first extreme feminist influence I notice, and the one I hate most is the deprecation of male characters. A story can have strong female characters, and those can even carry the story (such as with Amazon's "The Expanse").

But when the story requires all the male characters to be villains, incompetents, comic relief, "damsels in distress," or just plot devices, there is extreme feminism involved.

You just described how female characters have been treated in most action adventure films. Were you similarly offended by that?

 

[mala]

You just described how female characters have been treated in most action adventure films. Were you similarly offended by that?

pretty much since the start of cinema this has been a thing with women being treated as props or comic relief of the object that is the motivation for the hero to act. movies still do that for the most part. but we only ever hear about it whenever the roles are reversed. it's basically the same reason we hear some men complaining that women have special rights since they can't beat and rape their wives these days.

 

[RDKirk]

You just described how female characters have been treated in most action adventure films. Were you similarly offended by that?

When I was a child, town facilities were still divided between black and white. Whites, for instance, went to the Esquire movie theater which, from the outside at least, looked very, very posh. We blacks were required to attend the Rodeo Theater, which even as a kid I could recognize was run down. Moreover, the Esquire got films like Cleopatra and Ben-Hur while the Rodeo got Godzilla and The Attack of the Fifty-Foot Woman.

I didn't want--I never heard of any black person wanting--the Civil Rights Act to turn that around and force white people to be deprecated while black people were elevated. We believed "Turnabout is fair play" was never our desire.

Why is it yours?

But I don't forget that the first female Captain Marvel was not a white woman. In the comics was actually Monica Rambeau (the little girl's name) who was the first female Captain Marvel--and also the first black female superhero.

That title and honor was stripped from the character. She was made second-fiddle to the blonde. Why did that happen?

Perhaps something I've heard from black women in more cynical circles is true: "White women never objected to the heist, they just objected to their cut."

If that were not true, there would be no problem with programs like The Expanse that have strong women and strong men.

 

[mala]

When I was a child, town facilities were still divided between black and white. Whites, for instance, went to the Esquire movie theater which, from the outside at least, looked very, very posh. We blacks were required to attend the Rodeo Theater, which even as a kid I could recognize was run down. Moreover, the Esquire got films like Cleopatra and Ben-Hur while the Rodeo got Godzilla and The Attack of the Fifty-Foot Woman.

I didn't want--I never heard of any black person wanting--the Civil Rights Act to turn that around and force white people to be deprecated while black people were elevated. "Turnabout is fair play" was never our desire.

Why is it yours?

why do you think turnabout is something that people are looking for? where do you even get that idea from? do you think that movies that have female leads should be required to be made to a higher standard than movies with male leads? because that is essentially the point you are pushing here.
if one is to the same standard as the other then criticisms that are leveled at one should also be leveled at the other. that means that the criticisms that are being (unfairly in my opinion btw but whatever) leveled at captain marvel then should also be leveled at every other movie where the female actors are basically no better than props.
if you want cinema at a higher standard then that standard should also be pushed onto other films and is another topic entirely than what is being discussed on this thread.

 

[RDKirk]

why do you think turnabout is something that people are looking for? where do you even get that idea from?

From, for instance, the very next things you say:

do you think that movies that have female leads should be required to be made to a higher standard than movies with male leads? because that is essentially the point you are pushing here.
if one is to the same standard as the other then criticisms that are leveled at one should also be leveled at the other. that means that the criticisms that are being (unfairly in my opinion btw but whatever) leveled at captain marvel then should also be leveled at every other movie where the female actors are basically no better than props.
if you want cinema at a higher standard then that standard should also be pushed onto other films and is another topic entirely than what is being discussed on this thread.

You just described, "We're not going to do better, we're going to do to you what you did to us."

Oh, and by the way, it's not as though I saw a lot of black male heroes on the silver screen or television as a child, either, so I'm not picking up that guilt ticket.

 

[mala]

again you are coming across as stating that women should be held to a higher standard and should do better than men. if that is not what you are trying to state then fine but that is what it sounds like.

 

[RDKirk]

again you are coming across as stating that women should be held to a higher standard and should do better than men. if that is not what you are trying to state then fine but that is what it sounds like.

This is not 1959, this is 2019.

Yes, I'm holding women to a higher standard than white men were in 1959.

I'm holding white men today to a higher standard than they were in 1959.

I'm holding white women today to a higher standard than white men were in 1959.

I'm holding blacks today to a higher standard than white men were in 1959.

We are all supposed to be smarter.

Nobody in 2019 should be as racist and sexist as white men were in 1959.

We should all be expected to meet a higher standard today.

 

[mala]

who is talking about 1959. i'm talking about movies coming out in 2019. great since we are all supposed to be held to a higher standard these days then i fully expect you to start threads complaining about all the other movies that have come out in the recent past about how they treat women and minorities.
get to it then.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Unlike "Wonder Woman," it gave me no feelz with its story.

huh. With the caveat that I don't have terribly high opinions of either movie, I think I got more legit feels in Captain Marvel. At least CM started as an underdog whereas WW started as a rich girl born with powers.

The first extreme feminist influence I notice, and the one I hate most is the deprecation of male characters. A story can have strong female characters, and those can even carry the story (such as with Amazon's "The Expanse").

But when the story requires all the male characters to be villains, incompetents, comic relief, "damsels in distress," or just plot devices, there is extreme feminism involved.

There is that in this movie. Nick Fury, for instance, is reduced to comic relief. Samuel L Jackson is perfectly willing to play comic relief if the check cashes, and he does so here--very well. He's quite good at it, and he's good at it in this movie.

But the Nick Fury character is deprecated to comic relief. Most annoying was the reduction to absurdity of how he lost his eye. Rather than having lost it in some significant fight against some significant enemy, he lost his eye merely to a stupid cat scratch that he failed to get examined.

None of the male characters in this movie are worth a boy emulating, nor do they even provide substantive support to the women as even worthwhile wingmen or sidekicks.

You're forgetting Talos. He's neither comic relief nor a villain and is arguable more heroic and sacrificial than any other character.

That said, I'd argue that you're being a bit hard on the film - the whole thing is supposed to be campy and funny. They practically shattered the fourth wall with all the '90s references. That most of the dudes are reduced to comic relief shouldn't be a surprise since half of CM's scenes could be described that way, too.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

You just described how female characters have been treated in most action adventure films. Were you similarly offended by that?

I'd say quite a few guys were. I've been tired of the constantly-rescued side-kick female character since I was young, basically because (outside of comedies) I don't have any sympathies for stupid or useless characters in books and movies. I'd rather a Princess Leia type who grabs a blaster and fights alongside the main character (assuming the lead is a guy)

 

[Sistrin]

Princess Leia...when did that movie come out again?

I went to see Captain Marvel. It was dull, plodding, and dogmatic. Also boring. The Skrull-chase scene through the city played out like a nineties version of a seventies cop show. It was a poor attempt at a buddy film only where one buddy disdains the other. And just about everyone else. Unlike every other movie comprising the MCU, there was no joy in it at all.

 

[RDKirk]

who is talking about 1959. i'm talking about movies coming out in 2019. great since we are all supposed to be held to a higher standard these days then i fully expect you to start threads complaining about all the other movies that have come out in the recent past about how they treat women and minorities.
get to it then.

There will be about 500 movies coming out this year.

You start naming them, and if I've seen them, I'll agree where appropriate.

But don't skip any that have strong women--acknowledge those, too.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Princess Leia...when did that movie come out again?

1977, 1980, 1983, 1997, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2019

I think that's all of them.

The Skrull-chase scene through the city played out like a nineties version of a seventies cop show.

That was the point. Did you happen to notice that the dogfight through the canyon was a direct rip-off of the dogfight in Independence Day? She even dragged Jude Law through the desert. Also, that's not the first time a visitor to earth has stolen clothes and a motorcycle. The whole movie was filled with things like that. Kevin Smith just lost his mind, because Stan Lee's cameo had him rehearsing his lines for Mallrats.

Unlike every other movie comprising the MCU, there was no joy in it at all.

lol wut? I can't believe I'm the one defending an MCU movie, but really? Did you watch Infinity War? It was 2.5 hours of nothing interesting happening (including a complete rehash of one of the fight scenes) followed by half of the characters I didn't care about dying.

CM wasn't a good movie by any stretch, but I don't know how you can claim that it had "no joy" when the main character is an underdog who overcomes huge odds, essentially rises from the dead, rediscovers her past, rekindles old friendships, vanquishes foes, saves a bunch of innocent civilians, and finds her inner strength in the process; and the whole story is drowning in 90's cultural references done purely (if clumsily) for the purpose of getting laughs.

 

[iluvatar5150]

There will be about 500 movies coming out this year.

You start naming them, and if I've seen them, I'll agree where appropriate.

But don't skip any that have strong women--acknowledge those, too.

I'd say the dude characters in CM were, on the whole, treated no worse than the female characters in The Meg or most incarnations of Mission Impossible, James Bond, or The Fast & The Furious.

 

[RDKirk]

I'd say the dude characters in CM were, on the whole, treated no worse than the female characters in The Meg or most incarnations of Mission Impossible, James Bond, or The Fast & The Furious.

I'd agree with you about "James Bond" (that's the Bond shtick, and I haven't bothered with those since I was a kid) and "The Fast and the Furious" (from what I've heard of them--I've never seen any of them). Maybe not so much "Mission Impossible," but I only saw the first of those.