Evidence of Christs coming

[shilohsfoal]

Start a thread on it.

Well ,it still fits in this thread because Jesus said it was about the end.
You was right that the weedss are gatherd first and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:36 KJV: Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Matthew 13:37 KJV: He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Matthew 13:38 KJV: The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Matthew 13:39 KJV: The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Matthew 13:40 KJV: As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Matthew 13:41 KJV: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Matthew 13:42 KJV: And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:43 KJV: Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

At the time of the end.the weeds are gatherd and burned in,the fire first.Then Jesus shall send his angels to gather those that belong to him into the kingdom of God.

Do you have any proof Jesus came in 70ad and sent his angels to gather the elect into the kingdom of God?

Mark 13:27 And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Matthew 24:31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Im quite sure Jesus has not srnt his angels to gather his wheat into his barn just yet.
But the point i was making as can,be made time and time again is the wicked are taken and the rightous is left.Same as the flood.The wicked was taken and Noah and his family was left behind amd Noah continued to live on the earth long after the wicked was taken away.

 

[parousia70]

I think the idea of the frequent "comings" of Jesus is a sweet religious concept, but it is foreign to the New Testament

No, it's not foreign to the NT at all.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

 

[parousia70]

Matthew 24:30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

Which any 1st century Jew familiar with the Old Testament would understand as no different from any of Yaweh's numerous, previous "could comings in power and glory that every eye saw."

Obviously the 'they' are meaning all the tribes of the earth. The first question one should be asking themselves, how many do all the tribes of the earth consist of?

Please note that Revelation 1:7 is a quotation of a passage from Zechariah -- namely, Zechariah 12:10-14. The mourning of the tribes in that Zechariah passage is a mourning of the tribes of Israel. Case closed.

To try and make the "tribes of the land mourning" mean some OTHER tribes than the ones Zechariah meant (and, thus St. John who quotes him) is very bad hermeneutics. I highly recommend you read Zechariah 12:10-14 and recognize that St. John is quoting him in Revelation 1:7.

Furthermore, the Zechariah 12:10-14 passage is centered geographically on the city of Jerusalem. So when St. John quotes Zechariah in Rev chapter 1 we can be sure that he has a focus similar to Zechariah 12:10-14.

The bible is the best interpreter of the bible. Do we agree on this?

Something else to keep in mind, this coming is after the trib of those days. Wherever one places the trib of those days, and whatever one takes the trib of those days to be referring to, for example, some take them to mean the events leading up to 70 AD, all the tribes of the earth see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory, after and not during the trib of those days.

Luke 21:20-23 plainly places the event in the apostles' lifetimes when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem (AD 70). The apostles saw the armies surround the city, as Jesus told them they would. How did they escape this "great tribulation - great distress upon the land and wrath upon its people"? Simply by fleeing Jerusalem and ancient Judea. This took place for them as Jesus promised.

Christians for 20 centuries have understood that the great tribulation is past and pertained to AD 66-70. The few today who that think it is not are letting the fiction of the Left Behind series teach them instead of the bible.

Folks, the great tribulation/great distress is long since passed. It took place when the apostles saw Jerusalem surrounded by Roman armies and then fled ancient Judea (Luke 21:20-23). Such was understood by the majorty of Christian leaders and scholars until the Left Behind/Late Great Planet Earth books made biblical and historical ignorance a cottage industry.

But it is also after the stars fall from heaven, etc, which takes place immediately after the trib of those days, being when all the tribes of the earth initially see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

C'mon... even you don't interpret "stars falling from heaven" literally... Stars are thousands of times larger than earth.

Why not let the Bible interpret it for you?
In Isaiah 34 we see another of Yahweh's comings--the Day of the Lord (Isa 34:8) against all nations back in the 500s BC. The particular mention of God's sacrifice of the nations (including Edom) found in Isa 34 harmonizes with Ezekiel 25 and 26, where Edom's doom is particularly listed in Ez 25:12-14. It also harmonizes with Jeremiah 49:7-22 and the entire prophecy of Obadiah. As the prophecies said, Edom was destroyed at that time. Here again we see the usual apocalyptic metaphors: Jehovah comes down for battle to bring his sword against nations (Isa 34:5-9), the universe colapses (Isa 34:4), the destruction of these civilizations is compared to a blood sacrifice on God's alter (34:6), it's the Day of the Lord's vengeance (Isa 34:8 -- compare to the Day of the Lord's vengeance of AD 66-70 spoken of in Luke 21:20-22) and so on. We could find many more apocalyptic metaphors by searching the Ezekiel and Jeremiah and Obediah accounts. All this, of course, shows us how Christ's coming in the glory of the Father at AD 66-70 was precisely of the same nature as all the previous Jehovhah-comings foretold by the prophets and fulfilled in OT times.

Note that whenever God has come in biblical times, earth-destroying, star falling, mountain-melting, Heavens receeding, humanity-destroying doom language is applied. I could list dozens of other examples of past judgments that use that language to describe God's hand in the rise and fall of civilizations and empires.

So maybe it makes sense to you that the coming meant is not meaning visible, but according to the chronology of events, and the fact it involves all the tribes of the earth seeing this, how can it not be a visible coming that is in view? And since chronology does matter sometimes, in this case it debunks that Matthew 24:30 has anything to do with the events of 70 AD.

What has been debunked is this unbiblical notion that one must interpret OT phrases such as "God rides a swift cloud" and was "seen by the eyes of all nations" in polar opposite fashion to the NT phrase "He is coming on the clouds and every eye will see".

The sheer ignorance of the repeated use of this language in scripture never ceases to amaze me. Much of it is innocent, but when the scriptural evidence is presented like I just did here in black and white.. the choice for the innocently ignorant is to:
A) Educate themselves and adjust their view to match the scripture, or
B) Move from Innocently Ignorant to WILLFULLY ignorant, and dig in their heels to defend their unscriptural view at the expense of what scripture actually teaches.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, it's not foreign to the NT at all.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

 

[BABerean2]

I am thinking the tares were gathered and bound for burning in the siege of 70ad Jerusalem after the wheat were taken to safety.

You seem to think almost everything in the New Testament is about 70 AD...

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
Mat 13:37 He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
Mat 13:39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!


Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
Mat 25:45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


...,but it is not.

.

 

[mkgal1]

What Paul says about the Second Coming of Christ is sorted out in 1 and 2 Thessalonians. He describes there what will happen. It will be a general, actual world-changing event and everyone, believer and sinner will know all about it when it happens. We won't need to take anyone's word for it that Jesus has come again. We will all see Him for ourselves, and will welcome Him with open arms, or run from Him terrified.

The fact that the gospel is still being preached and folk are still coming to Christ and getting saved, means that the Second Coming hasn't happened yet, because when it happens, the day of grace will be over, the preaching of the gospel will be no more, and no one else will be saved.

There is a difference between the "coming" that this generation was anticipating - and His final return. I believe the trouble is that many modern teachers have conflated the two. Look at this verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:

"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord......"​

Does it make sense that there are people still waiting.....still alive today....from the first century? Because I can't read that to mean anything other than coinciding with what Jesus had said - that His "coming in His kingdom" (not 'final return' - not a visual nor physical appearance) would be while some IN HIS TIME were still alive...in the first century.

Jesus said:

Matthew 16:28 ~ "And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

Matthew 24:34 ~ "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened."

Matthew 26:64
"You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

​

​

 

[DavidPT]

Which any 1st century Jew familiar with the Old Testament would understand as no different from any of Yaweh's numerous, previous "could comings in power and glory that every eye saw."



Please note that Revelation 1:7 is a quotation of a passage from Zechariah -- namely, Zechariah 12:10-14. The mourning of the tribes in that Zechariah passage is a mourning of the tribes of Israel. Case closed.

To try and make the "tribes of the land mourning" mean some OTHER tribes than the ones Zechariah meant (and, thus St. John who quotes him) is very bad hermeneutics. I highly recommend you read Zechariah 12:10-14 and recognize that St. John is quoting him in Revelation 1:7.

Furthermore, the Zechariah 12:10-14 passage is centered geographically on the city of Jerusalem. So when St. John quotes Zechariah in Rev chapter 1 we can be sure that he has a focus similar to Zechariah 12:10-14.

The bible is the best interpreter of the bible. Do we agree on this?



Luke 21:20-23 plainly places the event in the apostles' lifetimes when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem (AD 70). The apostles saw the armies surround the city, as Jesus told them they would. How did they escape this "great tribulation - great distress upon the land and wrath upon its people"? Simply by fleeing Jerusalem and ancient Judea. This took place for them as Jesus promised.

Christians for 20 centuries have understood that the great tribulation is past and pertained to AD 66-70. The few today who that think it is not are letting the fiction of the Left Behind series teach them instead of the bible.

Folks, the great tribulation/great distress is long since passed. It took place when the apostles saw Jerusalem surrounded by Roman armies and then fled ancient Judea (Luke 21:20-23). Such was understood by the majorty of Christian leaders and scholars until the Left Behind/Late Great Planet Earth books made biblical and historical ignorance a cottage industry.



C'mon... even you don't interpret "stars falling from heaven" literally... Stars are thousands of times larger than earth.

Why not let the Bible interpret it for you?
In Isaiah 34 we see another of Yahweh's comings--the Day of the Lord (Isa 34:8) against all nations back in the 500s BC. The particular mention of God's sacrifice of the nations (including Edom) found in Isa 34 harmonizes with Ezekiel 25 and 26, where Edom's doom is particularly listed in Ez 25:12-14. It also harmonizes with Jeremiah 49:7-22 and the entire prophecy of Obadiah. As the prophecies said, Edom was destroyed at that time. Here again we see the usual apocalyptic metaphors: Jehovah comes down for battle to bring his sword against nations (Isa 34:5-9), the universe colapses (Isa 34:4), the destruction of these civilizations is compared to a blood sacrifice on God's alter (34:6), it's the Day of the Lord's vengeance (Isa 34:8 -- compare to the Day of the Lord's vengeance of AD 66-70 spoken of in Luke 21:20-22) and so on. We could find many more apocalyptic metaphors by searching the Ezekiel and Jeremiah and Obediah accounts. All this, of course, shows us how Christ's coming in the glory of the Father at AD 66-70 was precisely of the same nature as all the previous Jehovhah-comings foretold by the prophets and fulfilled in OT times.

Note that whenever God has come in biblical times, earth-destroying, star falling, mountain-melting, Heavens receeding, humanity-destroying doom language is applied. I could list dozens of other examples of past judgments that use that language to describe God's hand in the rise and fall of civilizations and empires.



What has been debunked is this unbiblical notion that one must interpret OT phrases such as "God rides a swift cloud" and was "seen by the eyes of all nations" in polar opposite fashion to the NT phrase "He is coming on the clouds and every eye will see".

The sheer ignorance of the repeated use of this language in scripture never ceases to amaze me. Much of it is innocent, but when the scriptural evidence is presented like I just did here in black and white.. the choice for the innocently ignorant is to:
A) Educate themselves and adjust their view to match the scripture, or
B) Move from Innocently Ignorant to WILLFULLY ignorant, and dig in their heels to defend their unscriptural view at the expense of what scripture actually teaches.

I have read your post a cpl of times and still don't see where you have proven your position one way or the other.

I need to try and get on the same page with you, so let me ask the following before I proceed any further.

Let's look at it like this.

A---the tribulation of those days

B---the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

C---And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

D---Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him

Let's start with D since you brought it up. Are you saying D is the same event as C? When are you concluding D is fulfilled? Before, during, or after A above? You do agree that A, B and C involves chronology, and that C can't occur before or during A, but has to occur after A, right?

BTW, it matters little whether the stars falling are literal or not. What matters is, whatever the falling stars are referring to, and it has to be referring to something, that event can't happen until after the trib of those days, and that the coming in verse 30 can't occur until after the trib of those days, and can't occur until after the falling stars scenerio.

 

[parousia70]

I have read your post a cpl of times and still don't see where you have proven your position one way or the other.

I'll do my best to help clarify.

I need to try and get on the same page with you, so let me ask the following before I proceed any further.

That's fair.

Let's look at it like this.

A---the tribulation of those days

B---the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

C---And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

D---Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him

Got it.

Let's start with D since you brought it up. Are you saying D is the same event as C?

Yes.

When are you concluding D is fulfilled? Before, during, or after A above? You do agree that A, B and C involves chronology, and that C can't occur before or during A, but has to occur after A, right?

Sounds reasonable...

BTW, it matters little whether the stars falling are literal or not. What matters is, whatever the falling stars are referring to, and it has to be referring to something, that event can't happen until after the trib of those days, and that the coming in verse 30 can't occur until after the trib of those days, and can't occur until after the falling stars scenerio.

Ok.. Not sure exactly where you are going with this though?
I assume you believe this provides some sort of Conundrum for me somehow?

Sorry, I don't see it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, it's not foreign to the NT at all.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

I was talking about the Second Coming of Christ, not the abiding of the Holy Spirit in a believer.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*..............
BTW, it matters little whether the stars falling are literal or not. What matters is, whatever the falling stars are referring to, and it has to be referring to something, that event can't happen until after the trib of those days, and that the coming in verse 30 can't occur until after the trib of those days, and can't occur until after the falling stars scenerio.

Sure it matters!!! It is part of our Bible.

Let's take a look at some of the Hebrew OT/OC scriptures [which the Jews read, not our NT/NC] that refer to sun, moon and stars.

Deu 4:19
“And take heed, lest you lift your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, you feel driven to worship them and serve them,
which the LORD your God has given to all the peoples under the whole heaven as a heritage.

Isa 13:10
For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not give their light;
The sun will be darkened in its going forth,
And the moon will not cause its light to shine.
Jer 31:35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name):

Eze 32:7
When I put out your light,
I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud,
And the moon shall not give her light.
Joe 2:10
The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
Joe 3:15
The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
=================================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
LLoJ's Olivet Disourse Harmonized

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matthew 24:29

Mat 24:29
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Luk 21:25
“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
=======
Jer 31:35 Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name):
=================
If this is speaking of a third of the 12 stars in Revelation 12:1, that would mean 4 stars are thrown down. [That can be for another topic]

Rev 8:12
Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened.
A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.

Rev 12:1
Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

Jesus describe 7 stars here:

Rev 1:20
“The mystery of the seven Stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the Messengers of the seven Assemblies,
and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven Messenger.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus said:

Matthew 16:28 ~ "And I tell you the truth, some standing here right now will not die before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom."

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Did He cast out devils during His earthly ministry?

Based on the above statement by Christ, the kingdom of God has a past, present, and a future aspect.



Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

The victory of His kingdom was at the cross.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Did He cast out devils during His earthly ministry?
Based on the above statement by Christ, the kingdom of God has a past, present, and a future aspect.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

The victory of His kingdom was at the cross.
.

Revelation and the Olivet Disourse are the same event........
study the NT and Revelation as a Hebrew Jew would. Afterall, Jesus came to them...... .

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I am saying to ye, that shall be being taken-away from Ye the Kingdom of the God,
and it shall be being given to a Nation doing the Fruits of it.

Luke 13:28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth, whenever Ye should be seeing Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the Kingdom of the God
and Ye yet being cast out<1544> outside [Revelation 11:2]

Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these? Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”

Luke 21:31
"Thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these-things becoming,
ye are knowing that nigh is the Kingdom of the God."


Do you view this as a future 3rd Temple being visioned here:

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Altar of Sacrifice], without of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations and the holy City they shall be treading/pathsousin <3961> (5692) forty two months.

Luke 13:28
There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth, whenever Ye should be seeing Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the Kingdom of the God
and Ye yet being cast out<1544> outside [Revelation 11:2]

Mat 8:12 “But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 8:
12 “But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
44 `Ye out of a father, the Devil, are, and the desires of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.
That one a man-killer was from beginning and in the truth not has stood, that not is truth in him.
Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own/P he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it. [Reve 18:14]
Matthew 23:33
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

Revelation 20:10
and the Devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of the fire and of brimstone/qeiou <2303>, the-where also the beast and the false prophet.

.........................

 

[mkgal1]

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Did He cast out devils during His earthly ministry?

Based on the above statement by Christ, the kingdom of God has a past, present, and a future aspect.

Yes. He did. That's recorded in Matthew 8:28-34 & Mark 5:1-17.

I don't disagree that His kingdom has a past, present, and future aspect. His kingdom is eternal. I'm not sure why you're bringing that up?

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

The victory of His kingdom was at the cross.

Well.....as you said - His kingdom has a past present, and future aspect. His kingdom is dynamic....the work of Christ is ongoing and present. His victory over sin and death was most certainly at the cross (I don't disagree with that at all)....but His justice and glory in dealing with the disobedient religious leaders of the Temple system was AFTER the cross. His "coming in His kingdom" wasn't just one event - but a series of events (in my belief and understanding). I see that as His mercy.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes. He did.

I don't disagree that His kingdom has a past, present, and future aspect. His kingdom is eternal. I'm not sure why you're bringing that up?

I am bringing it up because it can also be applied to Matthew 16:28 during His earthly ministry, instead of 70 AD.

We have some here who are promoting Full-Preterism at every opportunity.

.

 

[mkgal1]

We have some here who are promoting Full-Preterism at every opportunity.

.

No we don't have that here. Full preterism = there is nothing left to be fulfilled (IOW....that Jesus will not ever "come again" as stated in the creeds). No one has advocated for that belief here.

 

[mkgal1]

I am bringing it up because it can also be applied to Matthew 16:28 during His earthly ministry, instead of 70 AD.

As I posted earlier - I believe there was a series of events unfolding. I'm of the belief that He was "anointed" as king when He was baptized by John the Baptizer and there was a progression from that point as He "took His kingdom".

 

[parousia70]

I was talking about the Second Coming of Christ, not the abiding of the Holy Spirit in a believer.

Matthew 18:20 is likewise not describing the abiding of the Holy Spirit in a believer.
The Holy Spirit can abide in a believer regardless if He is alone or with a group of two or 3 or 10 or 5000 gathered in Jesus name...

This Coming of Jesus Christ himself into the midst of two or three who have gathered in His name, is completely different from the Holy Spirit Abiding constantly in the hearts of Believers since Pentecost.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Matthew 18:20 is likewise not describing the abiding of the Holy Spirit in a believer.
The Holy Spirit can abide in a believer regardless if He is alone or with a group of two or 3 or 10 or 5000 gathered in Jesus name...

This Coming of Jesus Christ himself into the midst of two or three who have gathered in His name, is completely different from the Holy Spirit Abiding constantly in the hearts of Believers since Pentecost.

The midst....He is in the midst of us right now on CF.....where 2 or more are gathered

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 18:20 G3319/midst. The exact form of the word used:

μέσῳ — 31x G3319 μέσος
Occurrences: 31 times in 29 verses
Speech: Adjective Parsing: Dative Neuter Singular

1 time in the Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 Those in Judea

Luk 21:21 -
“Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart,
and let not those who are in the country enter her.
========
Exact word form used 6 times in Revelation

Rev 1:13 - and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.

Rev 2:1 -
“To the of Messenger of the church in Ephesus write,
‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:
Rev 4:6 -
Before the throne a sea of glass, like crystal.
And in the midst of the throne, and around the throne, were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back.
Rev 5:6 -
And I looked, and behold! in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lambkin as though it had been slaughtered,
having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Rev 6:6 - [denoting famine in 70ad Jerusalem]
And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius;
and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Rev 22:2 -
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the Tree of the Life, which bore twelve fruits, each yielding its fruit every month.
The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[BABerean2]

No one has advocated for that belief here.

Check the link below for post#256 in another thread...

Eschatology for dummies

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[LittleLambofJesus]

Check the link below...

Eschatology for dummies

.

The way it looks on this board, everyone on here should be checking that whole board out.

I said I am leaning toward it [close tho]......

Nothing wrong with that. If I remember correctly, 1 billion Roman Catholics are also Amill.
I am a Preterist and leaning toward full preterism/full Covenantle Fulfillment because I view Revelation as "Covenantle", but not quite there yet.
Here is an interesting thread on amill and preterism beliefs.............

I haven't yet figured out that symbolic "1000yr period" and the Gog-Magog, event after that.

Btw, check this post out:
Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of "Replacement Theology"