Please Stop Saying "Replacement Theology"

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Only a remnant????

Romans 11:25
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.​
This is just a question that I haven’t studied completely but from the standpoint of faith is there any Rabbinical teaching that shows a difference between the sand of the sea and the stars of the sky that are to be receivers of Abrahamic promises?
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think this exposes a huge red flag in your view. IIRC you've said this explicitly elsewhere. This suggests that a person can be saved without Jesus and it's probably through something like "jewishness". This is just a denial of the gospel.
I have not said that at all.
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I have not said that at all.

I've seen you say here that a jewish person who rejects Jesus might be saved. A gentile person who rejects Jesus cannot be saved. So how does the jewish person who rejects Jesus get saved?
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
This is just a question that I haven’t studied completely but from the standpoint of faith is there any Rabbinical teaching that shows a difference between the sand of the sea and the stars of the sky that are to be receivers of Abrahamic promises?
I am not aware of any. But there may be somewhere.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I've seen you say here that a jewish person who rejects Jesus might be saved. A gentile person who rejects Jesus cannot be saved. So how does the jewish person who rejects Jesus get saved?
Let me ask you a question.

If a gentile baby dies during childbirth, or shortly thereafter, what keeps them from going to hell immediately? (or do they?)
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Let me ask you a question.

If a gentile baby dies during childbirth, or shortly thereafter, what keeps them from going to hell immediately? (or do they?)

Only God's sovereign election to put a person into Christ would keep them from going to hell. So if the baby is saved, she is saved by Christ.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟794,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Not at all. That is "dual covenant" theory which has serious problems of its own. I do not ascribe to that concept at all.

But Jeremiah and Paul are both clear - Every Jew will accept Jesus as lord and savior. And every physical promise to them will be fulfilled; not "spiritually" or "to the church," but to Physical Ethnic Israel.


Even the ones who have already died in unbelief?
Even the Jews that bowed their Knee to Baal and were destroyed By God for doing so? They will accept Jesus and be saved anyway?

Or when you say "every Jew" you mean something other than "EVERY" Jew?
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So if the baby is saved, she is saved by Christ.
One can only be saved by consciously accepting Christ as savior and Lord. An infant is incapable of doing that.

And if you are appealing to the Calvinist concept of Unconditional Election, I reject that idea out of hand.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟794,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If a gentile baby dies during childbirth, or shortly thereafter, what keeps them from going to hell immediately? (or do they?)

It is dependant on The timing of the The Great White Throne Judgement.

If it's Past, all born sinners go to hell immediately upon physical death. If future, they have to wait just like everybody.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Even the ones who have already died in unbelief?
Even the Jews that bowed their Knee to Baal and were destroyed By God for doing so? They will accept Jesus and be saved anyway?

Or when you say "every Jew" you mean something other than "EVERY" Jew?
As I have said before, I cannot give an answer to that.
Leave it in God's hands.

Why do you need to have that information?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Tree of Life: Please consider the following passage:

Joshua 1:1
Now it came about after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord, that the Lord spoke to Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ servant, saying, 2 “Moses My servant is dead; now therefore arise, cross this Jordan, you and all this people, to the land which I am giving to them, to the sons of Israel. 3 Every place on which the sole of your foot treads, I have given it to you, just as I spoke to Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory. 5 No man will be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I have been with Moses, I will be with you; I will not fail you or forsake you.

Clearly Israel has NEVER in her history occupied the west bank of the Euphrates River (in Iraq)


Actually, the Bible clearly states that ALL of the land promised to the fathers was given to Israel, NOT ONE promise failed Israel. EVERYTHING was fulfilled.

Joshua 21:43-45 Thus the LORD gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their fathers, and they took possession of it and settled there. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, just as He had sworn to their fathers. None of their enemies could stand against them, for the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. Not one of all the LORD's good promises to the house of Israel failed; everything was fulfilled.
 
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
One can only be saved by consciously accepting Christ as savior and Lord. An infant is incapable of doing that.

I agree that one is saved by accepting Christ and infants cannot do this. But the church has traditionally taught that infants dying in infancy might be saved by Christ even though they did not have the ability to accept him. The same is true for mentally handicapped people. This has been based on the idea of unconditional election by Reformed theologians.

And if you are appealing to the Calvinist concept of Unconditional Election, I reject that idea out of hand.

That's fine. We don't need to go there. I believe you're obscuring the question I posed to you. How is it that a Jew who consciously rejects Jesus might be saved?
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟794,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
OF course they are. Currently.

Every Jew alive when our Lord returns will accept Him.

So that means Every person on earth Alive at that time will accept him, since we all have some Jewish DNA today?

Or How much Jewish DNA do you say is required?
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That's fine. We don't need to go there. I believe you're obscuring the question I posed to you. How is it that a Jew who consciously rejects Jesus might be saved?
And I have answered that already.

Unless YOU are such a person, a Jew that rejected Christ, why do you want to know?
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟794,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
As I have said before, I cannot give an answer to that.
Leave it in God's hands.

Why do you need to have that information?

YOU made the claim... and now you say, "well, I really don't know what my claim means, why are you asking me to tell you what MY claim means"?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So that means Every person on earth Alive at that time will accept him, since we all have some Jewish DNA today?
Do we? That is the error of the "2 House Theory."
Or How much Jewish DNA do you say is required?
I see nothing in scripture that says God is interested in DNA.
 
Upvote 0

A Realist

Living in Reality
Dec 27, 2018
1,371
1,335
Georgia
✟67,536.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually, the Bible clearly states that ALL of the land promised to the fathers was given to Israel, NOT ONE promise failed Israel. EVERYTHING was fulfilled.
Real history would disagree.
The land of the Hittites was in modern day Turkey.
The boundaries of ancient Israel never extended that far north, nor did they extend eastward to the Euphrates in modern day Iraq. That is fact.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
YOU made the claim... and now you say, "well, I really don't know what my claim means, why are you asking me to tell you what MY claim means"?
I'm sorry I missed where you clearly answered that. Could you repeat your answer?
Posts 67 and 68.

Paul made the claim in Romans 11. "All Israel shall be saved." And in that direct context he says Israel are "enemies of the gospel." Clearly he is NOT talking about the church or believing Jews.

How God wants to work that out is His business.

Paul wrote it. It is in the bible. I believe it.

Nuff said.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,243
✟48,077.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Posts 67 and 68.

Paul made the claim in Romans 11. "All Israel shall be saved." And in that direct context he says Israel are "enemies of the gospel." Clearly he is NOT talking about the church or believing Jews.

How God wants to work that out is His business.

Paul wrote it. It is in the bible. I believe it.

Nuff said.

Well that's not exactly true. You've already made qualifications. You believe "all Israel" does not necessarily include every single Jew who has ever lived - only those who are living at the time Jesus returns. Paul does not explicitly say this. There's a need to interpret Paul's words, as you are already doing. I'm asking you to defend your interpretation.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: parousia70
Upvote 0