The heretics who made the bible

[HTacianas]

This is NOT a callout thread. I am only offering this for discussion.

I had someone earlier in another thread attempt to convince me that the successors to the apostles are heretics foretold by Peter. To support the idea he quoted, inter alia:

2Pe 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

To prove the point that heretics took over the Church, he quoted the bible. Yet those men accused of heresy are the very same men who decided what the bible is.

So apparently using a bible composed by heretics proves they were in fact heretics. This not the first time I've heard this. And it begs the question:

Was the bible created by heretics?

 

[Danielwright2311]

Jesus preached and commanded LOVE,PEACE AND FORGIVNESS.

How is that from any one who is a heretic?

When there is no God nor love or forgiveness, that comes from heretics.

 

[rockytopva]

I know the Bible is true because I experienced God through the teachings. I was born into a military family and spent most of my teenage years traveling and regrettably fell in with the party group and was an atheists. When I was 17 I moved in with my grandmother and would....

1. Work the restaurant of the morning
2. Work the hay field in the afternoon
3. Go to the revival at night
4. Attend the many youth functions during the weekend
5. Spend time gardening and enjoying fresh grown food

While in revival the old guys would sit back in the pew and weep while the people before them were being laid out in the Spirit. If they looked back to catch the amazed look in my eye they would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" As they pointed to the souls blessed around the altar. After being in such an environment for months one evening while laying on my bed reading Nikki Cruzes "Run Baby Run" I felt the Holy Spirit speak to me for the first time to put the book down. When I did he says again, "Where is all that stress, tension, bad feelings, and the like?" In which examining my soul there was nothing there but pure beauty, and in the words of George Clark Rankin,

"As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

"I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life." - The Life of George Clark Rankin

So, no, the Bible was not written by heretics but......

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: - 2 Timothy 3:16

 

[Shempster]

This is NOT a callout thread. I am only offering this for discussion.

I had someone earlier in another thread attempt to convince me that the successors to the apostles are heretics foretold by Peter. To support the idea he quoted, inter alia:

2Pe 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

To prove the point that heretics took over the Church, he quoted the bible. Yet those men accused of heresy are the very same men who decided what the bible is.

So apparently using a bible composed by heretics proves they were in fact heretics. This not the first time I've heard this. And it begs the question:

Was the bible created by heretics?

I won't try to answer your question, but I would like to point out that Jesus specifically told us to beware of the scribes. Who were the scribes? The interpreters and copiers.

Just sayin'

 

[HTacianas]

I won't try to answer your question, but I would like to point out that Jesus specifically told us to beware of the scribes. Who were the scribes? The interpreters and copiers.

Just sayin'

Most of the scribal damage was done long before the canon was decided. Nothing that changed any doctrines or beliefs, just errors and emendations. Origen described some of the errors circa 200 AD. The canon wasn't decided until 390 or so.

 

[TuxAme]

Seems a bit too convenient (in the favor of the so-called reformers). "We're teaching the truth because there just had to be some heresy somewhere"

 

[timothyu]

Point of interest. Christianity was not built upon the canon. The books and writings were chosen to support a gentile church which at about the same time had abandoned the Kingdom in favour of returning to the world of man by rejoining the state, a system opposite to the Kingdom and will of God. They created a new Christianity.

 

[Jonaitis]

I don't understand, how do they determine who a 'heretic' is?

 

[rockytopva]

I know the Bible is true because I experienced God through the teachings. I was born into a military family and spent most of my teenage years traveling and regrettably fell in with the party group and was an atheists. When I was 17 I moved in with my grandmother and would....

1. Work the restaurant of the morning
2. Work the hay field in the afternoon
3. Go to the revival at night
4. Attend the many youth functions during the weekend
5. Spend time gardening and enjoying fresh grown food

While in revival the old guys would sit back in the pew and weep while the people before them were being laid out in the Spirit. If they looked back to catch the amazed look in my eye they would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" As they pointed to the souls blessed around the altar. After being in such an environment for months one evening while laying on my bed reading Nikki Cruzes "Run Baby Run" I felt the Holy Spirit speak to me for the first time to put the book down. When I did he says again, "Where is all that stress, tension, bad feelings, and the like?" In which examining my soul there was nothing there but pure beauty, and in the words of George Clark Rankin,

"As we returned home the sun shone brighter, the birds sang sweeter and the autumn-time looked richer than ever before. My heart was light and my spirit buoyant. I had anchored my soul in the haven of rest, and there was not a ripple upon the current of my joy. That night there was no service and after supper I walked out under the great old pine trees and held communion with God. I thought of mother, and home, and Heaven.

"I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life." - The Life of George Clark Rankin

So, no, the Bible was not written by heretics but......

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: - 2 Timothy 3:16

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. -1 Corinthians 2:4-5

I would like to pause and thank God that my experience is not on some Orthodox tradition, but it is in the power of the Holy Spirit that entered my soul. And such Spirit gave me love for the King James Version of the Holy Bible.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. - John 13:16

 

[anna ~ grace]

I think I know the thread you're referencing, @HTacianas , and it was very strange, and frankly, upsetting. How much folks torture themselves trying to understand every word of Scripture with their own reason. I can understand healthy skepticism, uncertainty, and a desire to be 100% correct, and not be mislead. That, I get. But, agreed, to say that the Saints who in history helped to establish the Canon should not be trusted, or were heretical, is just weird. And sad.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

This is NOT a callout thread. I am only offering this for discussion.

I had someone earlier in another thread attempt to convince me that the successors to the apostles are heretics foretold by Peter. To support the idea he quoted, inter alia:

2Pe 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

To prove the point that heretics took over the Church, he quoted the bible. Yet those men accused of heresy are the very same men who decided what the bible is.

So apparently using a bible composed by heretics proves they were in fact heretics. This not the first time I've heard this. And it begs the question:

Was the bible created by heretics?

Well, given the council of Nicaea defined what is considered heresy, how do we then determine someone to be a heretic?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Well, given the council of Nicaea defined what is considered heresy, how do we then determine someone to be a heretic?

I think that looking at history, and at how Christians in history figured this stuff out, what issues were raised, why, and how responses were formulated might help.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I think that looking at history, and at how Christians in history figured this stuff out, what issues were raised, why, and how responses were formulated might help.

I agree. I just thought it was rather ironic that the same group of people who have been described as "heretics" are the ones who defined what was considered heresy. The Nicene Creed is the definition and standard of Christian beliefs. So technically, anyone who doesn't completely agree with the Nicene Creed is a heretic.

 

[HTacianas]

And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. -1 Corinthians 2:4-5

I would like to pause and thank God that my experience is not on some Orthodox tradition, but it is in the power of the Holy Spirit that entered my soul. And such Spirit gave me love for the King James Version of the Holy Bible.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. - John 13:16

Well the point of this thread is that the bible itself is an "Orthodox tradition". Even your King James Version if you have an original and not the one with the books removed from it.

 

[rockytopva]

Well the point of this thread is that the bible itself is an "Orthodox tradition". Even your King James Version if you have an original and not the one with the books removed from it.

I am not saying the Orthodox are not Christian. I would agree that in some points the Orthodox are superior, especially as the Methodist revival does not last long. Augustin remarked, "In every man lieth a serpent." I would say there are many who carry on with tradition, but there are serpents fangs in the character that was never dealt with. With such folk I am suspicious.

 

[Jonaitis]

Oh, I see what kind of threat this is about.

 

[HTacianas]

I am not saying the Orthodox are not Christian. I would agree that in some points the Orthodox are superior, especially as the Methodist revival does not last long. Augustin remarked, "In every man lieth a serpent." I would say there are many who carry on with tradition, but there are serpents fangs in the character that was never dealt with. With such folk I am suspicious.

What seems to be your concerns?

 

[rockytopva]

What seems to be your concerns?

Calling someone a heretic is one concern.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Calling someone a heretic is one concern.

But is it not true that some things are correct, and others are deeply, damagingly wrong?

 

[CodyFaith]

Tbh anyone who truly believes the Bible was made by heretics is themselves a heretic and is possibly unconverted.

So yeah. Not directed towards anyone here, barely even read the OP. Just stating a fact.