What did Jesus mean when He told Peter he was the rock he would build his church upon?

[prodromos]

Rome was the trade hub of the empire. So everybody would have had incentive to communicate with Rome.

Corinth even more so, for the reasons given.

The epistel of, One Clement. Is regarded as scripture in some churches And is near Canonical in status. What other non Apostolic writings? Not considered full cannon. are still considered almost Canon. Of status equal to come parable with or even in excess of one Clement?

The Shepherd of Hermas is one of a few such works.

Palestine turned to Italy for authority. In the letter to the Hebrews.

How do you figure that? They turned to Paul, who happened to be in Rome.

Greece turned to Italy for authority in the letter of one Clement. All in the mid first century AD.

Corinth is not Greece. The Greek inhabitants had been massacred or sold into slavery after a failed uprising against the empire. The city had been rebuilt as a Roman outpost.

 

[Jonaitis]

Many claim that because Jesus said that to Peter, that Peter became the first pope and that proves the Roman Catholic Church is the only true Christian church. Thoughts?

The actual verses, in the context of the discussion, was this:

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

Notice that the passage quoted above had to do with the confession of Peter about Christ, rather than about Peter himself. His name, Peter, which means "rock," was related to his good confession about who Jesus was. It was upon this truth about Jesus, which he spoke, who is the Rock, that the church is built on and that the gates of hell will not prevail. This makes more sense with the overall understanding of this kind subject elsewhere in Scripture.

 

[Erik Nelson]

It looks like there are no identifiable churches which considered it to be "near canonical," after all.

Well, why don't you check out the foot notes to the article? I myself don't have time to do everybody's homework. If the Wikipedia article is in error you're Welcome to revise it.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Corinth even more so, for the reasons given.

The Shepherd of Hermas is one of a few such works.

How do you figure that? They turned to Paul, who happened to be in Rome.

Corinth is not Greece. The Greek inhabitants had been massacred or sold into slavery after a failed uprising against the empire. The city had been rebuilt as a Roman outpost.

And Paul was in Italy for a reason.

The fact remains both the letter to the Hebrews, and one Clement. Which share a lot of language? I'm not so with that many people speculate that Clement was he who helped Paul Write Hebrews. Both evidence the Italian Roman congregation. Strengthening their brothers in times of crisis. Even as Jesus instructed Saint Peter to do. The Petrine see was they who strengthened the church, they to whom others turned for strengthening and leadership. Even in the middle of the first century.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I clearly wrote "such a 'one head.'" Get it? Singular Earthly administrator, i.e. leader, of the visible church. That's what we all had been discussing here.

Thanks for clarifying. Now I know you're wrong.

 

[prodromos]

And Paul was in Italy for a reason.

The fact remains both the letter to the Hebrews, and one Clement. Which share a lot of language? I'm not so with that many people speculate that Clement was he who helped Paul Write Hebrews. Both evidence the Italian Roman congregation. Strengthening their brothers in times of crisis. Even as Jesus instructed Saint Peter to do. The Petrine see was they who strengthened the church, they to whom others turned for strengthening and leadership. Even in the middle of the first century.

It wasn't known as the Petrine See in the 1st century. As shown by the popular quote from Irenaeus it was the church established by Peter AND Paul. It wasn't until much later that Paul got swept under the rug as he got in the way of establishing the theology of 'Petrine primacy'

 

[Erik Nelson]

It wasn't known as the Petrine See in the 1st century. As shown by the popular quote from Irenaeus it was the church established by Peter AND Paul. It wasn't until much later that Paul got swept under the rug as he got in the way of establishing the theology of 'Petrine primacy'

well yes Rome has even more claim to fame

 

[Root of Jesse]

It looks like there are no identifiable churches which considered it to be "near canonical," after all.

While it is true that the books of the Bible are either Canonical or not, reading a letter at Mass was one of the criteria used to determine canonicity. The truth is that it's binary-either/or. But it was a question until a canon was chosen in the late 300's.

 

[Legroom]

Many claim that because Jesus said that to Peter, that Peter became the first pope and that proves the Roman Catholic Church is the only true Christian church. Thoughts?

The context of "the rock" was the fact that the Father bore witness to the identity of the Son. Jesus built his church/kingdom on this conviction that each believer comes to experience in our faith in Christ.



Peter Declares That Jesus Is the Messiah
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

The Rock is the Father in our hearts giving us the conviction that Jesus is his Son.

Not to take anything away from brother Peter, a far greater man than I, but Jesus was talking about how we all come to have faith in the Son even though he has returned to heaven.

 

[eleos1954]

Many claim that because Jesus said that to Peter, that Peter became the first pope and that proves the Roman Catholic Church is the only true Christian church. Thoughts?

***

1 Corinthians 10:4

4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Samuel 2:2

2 “There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

Deuteronomy 32:4

4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.


Isaiah 51:1

1 “Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut and to the quarry from which you were hewn;


Matthew 16:18
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock (Jesus Himself) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Psalm 18:2

2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 18:31

31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

Psalm 18:46

46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!

Psalm 28:1

1 To you, LORD, I call; you are my Rock, do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who go down to the pit.

Psalm 62:2

2 Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

Psalm 62:6

6 Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

Psalm 71:3

3 Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.

Psalm 89:26

26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’

Psalm 95:1

1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Jesus told Peterhe was the "rock" (Greek petra) on which Christ would build his Church. Peter is the "rock" under the Church.

The best modern English translation of the Greek word for "rock" is crag. In Modern English Jesus told Peter his name is Craig. Meaning a rocky outcropping of bedrock jutting up above ground level. "Your name is Craig and upon this crag I will build my church", in Modern English.

Eventually, Peter (1 Peter 2:5) told his followers that they were living "stones" (Greek lithos). The Greek word means something the size of a marble or a chess playing piece.

Christians become stones built upon. The rocky outcrop. Of Peter himself. Much like Edinburgh Castle is built on Castle Rock.

Logically that's why Peter uniquely was given the keys to the Kingdom. Peter controls who enters and exits. The church who is and who is not a member of the church.

Because just as a STONE must be built ON top of. Castle ROCK to be part of Edinburgh Castle. And just as no stone can hang and float and hover in mid air off to the side somewhere. So only those who are built ON the foundation of PETER and his faith. Are part of The true spiritual structure of the church.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Every bishop who confesses Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the Living God, is Peter.

With respect, please observe that Jesus spoke plainly. In Matthew 16, he gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom. And the authority to bind and loose. In that statement did he include the other apostles? And how do we know? 2 chapters later in Matthew 18. Jesus explicitly expressly extends the authority to bind and loose to the other Apostles also.

When Jesus wanted to do something he did it plainly for all to see. We know that the other. Apostles have the authority to Bindon lose the authority to participate in defining and determining Orthodox doctoring. Because Jesus explicitly said so.

If Jesus had wanted to extend it to them. The keys of the Kingdom, he would have also plainly said so. And if he considered them the rocky outcropping. The Crag on which he would build his spiritual temple. He also would have plainly said so.

We cannot read our words into Jesus' mouth. If we do so we are assuming the authority to speak as God's Word on Earth.

When Jesus wanted to give the Apostles. Exalted authority, he said, so plainly. When he wanted to give Peter even more exalted authority. He said, so earlier and just as plainly.

 

[Erik Nelson]

***

1 Corinthians 10:4

4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Samuel 2:2

2 “There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.

Deuteronomy 32:4

4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.


Isaiah 51:1

1 “Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness and who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut and to the quarry from which you were hewn;


Matthew 16:18
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock (Jesus Himself) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Psalm 18:2

2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Psalm 18:31

31 For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

Psalm 18:46

46 The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!

Psalm 28:1

1 To you, LORD, I call; you are my Rock, do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who go down to the pit.

Psalm 62:2

2 Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

Psalm 62:6

6 Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

Psalm 71:3

3 Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.

Psalm 89:26

26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’

Psalm 95:1

1 Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

And Simon CEPHAS, Simon PETER, was called that ROCK.

Even If you want to say that "rock" refers to Jesus himself. The fact then remains. Jesus was making and especially exalted identification of Simon PETER with the PETROUS ROCK of Jesus the son of God Himself, a direct comparison He made with no one else.

 

[prodromos]

The best modern English translation of the Greek word for "rock" is crag.

According to who? What is your source for this claim and how are they qualified to make this claim?

Eventually, Peter (1 Peter 2:5) told his followers that they were living "stones" (Greek lithos). The Greek word means something the size of a marble or a chess playing piece.

You are very much mistaken (perhaps the same source as above?).
Mark 16:3-4

And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone (λιθον) for us from the door of the tomb?” And looking up, they saw that the stone (λιθος) was rolled back—it was very large​

Logically that's why Peter uniquely was given the keys to the Kingdom.

He wasn't.

 

[prodromos]

With respect, please observe that Jesus spoke plainly. In Matthew 16, he gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom. And the authority to bind and loose. In that statement did he include the other apostles? And how do we know? 2 chapters later in Matthew 18. Jesus explicitly expressly extends the authority to bind and loose to the other Apostles also.

Your error is in not understanding that the keys of the kingdom IS the authority to bind and loose. This is the patristic understanding. Peter is also understood as a "type" of the apostles, and by extension, of the bishops.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Your error is in not understanding that the keys of the kingdom IS the authority to bind and loose. This is the patristic understanding. Peter is also understood as a "type" of the apostles, and by extension, of the bishops.

If you take Revelation 21 as a visualization of the spiritual temple of the Church in its completed and perfected state - towards which Abraham looked (Heb 11:10) and was glad (John 8:56) - then Peter and the other 11 Apostles are collectively symbolized similarly by the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem -- Likewise, Jesus Christ is symbolically the foundation as well as the chief extreme cornerstone. 1co3:11, eph2:20

 

[Erik Nelson]

Your error is in not understanding that the keys of the kingdom IS the authority to bind and loose. This is the patristic understanding. Peter is also understood as a "type" of the apostles, and by extension, of the bishops.

I understand that is a commonly held assertion, but I'm not so sure that's accurate. Binding and losing is a well known Hebrew expression. It's a Hebraic term. For the authority to determine and define Orthodox doctrine & practices.

The very word RELIGION means that which we are BOUND to. The authority to bind means the authority to make something BINDING. Make something if REQUIRED part of our religion. Conversely, the authority to loose means the authority to abrogate dispense with. And obviate some practice as not part. Of the religion.

Conversely, keys, 2 doors and gateways signifies the authority to control access to the Kingdom as well as movement within the Kingdom.

Obviously these are related functions in so far as someone who is flagrantly unorthodox probably can't remain within the Kingdom and would have to be expelled out of one of the doors and gateways.

But binding and losing refers to Orthodox doctrine & practice and its definition. Whereas keys refers to who is and is not allowed. Into or out of The Kingdom. As well as who is and is not allowed into the inner rooms, there of. About the membership of people. And so who is allowed where at Final Judgment.



Isaiah 22:22 = Rev 3:7, cp. Rev 1:18

NIV Study Bible Notes
Is 22:22 Quoted in part in Rev 3:7 (see note there). The mention of “father” (v. 21) and of the responsibility “on his shoulder” recalls the words about the Messiah in 9:6. key to the house of David. Cf. Rev 3:7 and note; the authority delegated to him by the king, who belongs to David’s dynasty—perhaps controlling entrance into the royal palace. Cf. the “keys of the kingdom” given to Peter (Mt 16:19)

Rev 3:7 Christ is the Davidic Messiah with authority to control entrance to the kingdom (see Isa 22:22; Mt 16:19).

Mt 16:19 16:19 keys. Perhaps Peter used these keys on the day of Pentecost (Ac 2) when he announced that the door of the kingdom was unlocked to Jews and converts to Judaism and later when he acknowledged that it was also opened to Gentiles (Ac 10; cf. Isa 22:22; Rev 3:7 and notes). bind . . . loose authority to determine guilt or innocence (see 18:18 and context; cf. Jn 20:23 and note).

Mt 18:18 To the other apostles is given a share in the authority given to Peter.

Jn 20:23 Lit. “If you forgive anyone their sins, they have (already) been forgiven; if you do not forgive, they have not been forgiven.” The intent of this word of Jesus has been much debated

 

[Erik Nelson]

According to who? What is your source for this claim and how are they qualified to make this claim?

Thayer's Lexicon as depicted online at Blue Letter Bible

You are very much mistaken (perhaps the same source as above?).
Mark 16:3-4

And they were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone (λιθον) for us from the door of the tomb?” And looking up, they saw that the stone (λιθος) was rolled back—it was very large​

He wasn't.

Well, a LITHOS is still not as large as a PETRA.

PETRA refers to the Rocky Crag of Golgotha in which the tomb of. Joseph of Arimathea was carved as well as the Rocky crag outcropping on which Herod's temple had been built. Whereas Herod's temple was made out of many individual LITHOS. No 2 of which would remain stacked and a LITHOS was rolled in front of the tomb's entrance.

 

[Erik Nelson]

1 Chronicles 9:25-27

keepers to the Holy Temple had keys and were in charge of guarding the grounds and keeping night watch. and letting people in in the morning.

Compare what Jesus said to Peter in the garden of Gethsemane about standing guard that night. Peter was supposed to be on the lookout for Judas and other physical embodiments of Diabolical influences.

This duty, he upheld in his epistles. 1 Peter 5:7-8, 2 Peter 2:1-2

 

[eleos1954]

And Simon CEPHAS, Simon PETER, was called that ROCK.

Even If you want to say that "rock" refers to Jesus himself. The fact then remains. Jesus was making and especially exalted identification of Simon PETER with the PETROUS ROCK of Jesus the son of God Himself, a direct comparison He made with no one else.

Matthew 16

18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

well in the verse and when one goes to the greek ... it says you are "Peter" and the meaning of Peter is:

4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).

and then later in the verse He says on this Rock and the meaning is:

4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – "a mass of connected rock," which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is "a detached stone or boulder" (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a "solid or native rock, rising up through the earth" (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

so I take it as more of a humbling position for Peter rather than an exalted one.