How do you feel about Donald Trump declaring a national emergency to build border wall?

[EpiscipalMe]

Do you support the eviseration of American borders? Sounds like you do!

Sounds like you support straw man arguments.

 

[childeye 2]

If illegal immigration is going down, how do you explain the caravans?

Do some research. Don't be deceived. The caravans are vastly comprised of asylum seekers, which is not illegal.

 

[notreligus]

Trump was wrong to call this a national emergency. But doing the wrong thing has not been much of a deterrent for him so far.

I feel certain that he was convinced by folk like Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell that he should use this option and if he is overruled he can blame everything on the Democrats and tell his base of supporters that he has tried everything possible to get his wall built. The truth still remains that he said, and said so many times no one knows how many times for sure, that he would force Mexico to pay for construction of the wall. He said it often enough that many chose to believe him.

 

[childeye 2]

Do you support the eviseration of American borders? Sounds like you do!

Respectfully, you should understand that a strawman argument is a logical fallacy. Do you really believe that it's fair, to characterize those who see no justification for a border wall originally described as needed to stop drugs, rapists, and gang members, as being proponents for the redrawing or erasing of borders?

 

[notreligus]

If illegal immigration is going down, how do you explain the caravans?

I don't try to explain them as there is no accurate reporting on this by anyone on either side of the argument. Mexico is apparently breaking up some of these. Mexico has their own border patrol and ports on entry on their southern borders and I believe it was on C-Span (not 100% on that) that these ports of entry were shown where the Mexican government has turned away a lot of immigrants that are supposed to be coming the the USA, according to the Trump side of the news.

 

[HTacianas]

Please choose your words carefully. For example, I have no idea what you have heard and seen some congress person say. But assuming that they said what you say, it still doesn't justify declaring a National emergency based on any improper and unlawful behavior. Also please consider that you're talking to someone who believes that those who knowingly participated in taking peoples children away from their parents and making them orphans, should go to jail.
There has always been people crossing over the border back and forth as a way of life. The growing power of violent drug cartels have precipitated the influx of those seeking sanctuary here in America. I cannot honestly state whether they intend to enter illegally or legally, but the Holy Spirit in me affords me the compassion to understand how out of desperation to save their lives, some would consider it the only viable course of action, particularly if on the American side officials were actively undermining the fair and due process concerning asylum seekers provided through the law.

Again any reasoning based on falsehood ends in a contradiction. They are all entitled under our laws and international law to apply for asylum. There is a fair and a due process that must be adhered to so as to determine eligibility and legitimacy. To claim that they are not eligible before they even apply is a contradiction in reasoning. So since this is obvious propaganda, you tell me why you believe someone would want to get you to believe that those coming here to seek asylum do not deserve asylum before even being processed and fairly evaluated?
God's Spirit would obligate them to do so. God is all about hope, faith and Love. Do you deny this?

Under international law a person with a credible fear of persecution may leave their home country and apply for asylum in the next country they come to. That rules out every single person attempting to cross the southern border except Mexican citizens. But these "caravans" of people are mostly central and south Americans.

And honestly, if anything I've said comes as some shock or surprise or if you weren't paying attention to the last election cycle you are quite frankly unqualified to make intelligent comments on the subject.

 

[Toney exlore]

Every time I see Trump say that without borders we have no country, I am forced to wonder if people are really stupid enough to believe that without a wall there's no border and therefore there's no country. Everyone should know that there has always been a border and a country ever since the borders were drawn.


All reasoning based on falsehood ends in a contradiction. The current economy is being grown through bringing in a million legal immigrants every year, so it's unreasonable to blame those thousands seeking asylum here for the higher costs of housing and low wage jobs.[/QUOTE

 

[EpiscipalMe]

Under international law a person with a credible fear of persecution may leave their home country and apply for asylum in the next country they come to. That rules out every single person attempting to cross the southern border except Mexican citizens. But these "caravans" of people are mostly central and south Americans.

And honestly, if anything I've said comes as some shock or surprise or if you weren't paying attention to the last election cycle you are quite frankly unqualified to make intelligent comments on the subject.

Not true. The US has no “safe third country” agreement with Mexico.

A 'Safe Third Country' Agreement With Mexico Won’t Fix U.S. Migratory Challenges

 

[Toney exlore]

I have a question how would you fill if America took over all of South America and forced are rule of law

 

[Tigger45]

How do you feel about Donald Trump declaring a national emergency to build border wall?

No being that urgency is required to meet the definition of emergency and Trump had two years to formally initiate action which he didn’t.

If this is an indication how slowly he reacts to emergency situations them I thank God he wasn’t president during the 9/11 emergency.

 

[HTacianas]

Not true. The US has no “safe third country” agreement with Mexico.

A 'Safe Third Country' Agreement With Mexico Won’t Fix U.S. Migratory Challenges

That would be why I specifically identified it as international law. Not US law.

 

[EpiscipalMe]

That would be why I specifically identified it as international law. Not US law.

Since we live in the US and are talking about people seeking asylum in the US, then it would seem that US law is most relevant.

Besides, your interpretation of international law is questionable. Mexico must accept requests for asylum, but asylum seekers are not required to request it there.
Trump Threatened to Turn Back Caravan Migrants If They Don't Claim Asylum in Mexico. That's Not Legal

 

[tulc]

I agree with trump we have borders the USA begans at each one of them. are rule of law begans at each one of them ..are way of life begans at each one of them. the problem is people out side are borders are trying to change are rule of law .are way of life to tare down America .you ask how is that hurting me .I have to follow the rules and these rules make my way of life .let's look at housing the price of rent is higher thin the price of buying most of are children when they leave home rent a home .now they can't afford to so they stay home longer .jobs don't pay as well as they use to .I could go on and name ways my life as changed.it all starts with the rule of law to make my way of life. am I going to follow them or brake them there is a right way to come in to America and a wrong way .it seems to me that a wall will work .the Democrats answer is more government workers to me that is a way the government can take control of your way of life and take away are freedoms that we have under are laws (emph. added)

First off: welcome to CF!
Secondly: is your use of "are" in place of "our" deliberate? I'm just checking, because sometimes people do that and I try and keep track of those who do.
tulc(is just checking)

 

[childeye 2]

Under international law a person with a credible fear of persecution may leave their home country and apply for asylum in the next country they come to. That rules out every single person attempting to cross the southern border except Mexican citizens. But these "caravans" of people are mostly central and south Americans.

All reasoning based upon falsehood ends in a contradiction. I am opposed to propaganda because I don't like being lied to. Am I wrong for this?

Department of homeland security statistics report, that in 2016 20,455 asylees were granted asylum. The leading countries of origin were China, El Salvador and Guatemala. Therefore, there is no reason why you should expect me to believe that those in charge of adjudicating and lawfully administering the law, were granting asylum to these applicants illegally under international law, just because you claim to know otherwise.

And honestly, if anything I've said comes as some shock or surprise or if you weren't paying attention to the last election cycle you are quite frankly unqualified to make intelligent comments on the subject.

Exactly how does my being shocked at what you say or not paying attention to any election cycle disqualify me from making intelligent commentary? It's not as if I am unaware that deceived people oppose their own selves. Please don't fault me for your posting things I can prove are not true. I actually feel that you should be thanking me.

 

[Toney exlore]

First off: welcome to CF!
Secondly: is your use of "are" in place of "our" deliberate? I'm just checking, because sometimes people do that and I try and keep track of those who do.
tulc(is just checking)

Thanks for making me feel at home.no it was not intended that way.lol I'm from alabama I catch my self writing the way I speak .like we say chicken fangers. I no it is spelled fingers. Lol I mean our country.

 

[The Barbarian]

If illegal immigration is going down, how do you explain the caravans?

How many people from the "caravans" do you think got through? Most illegal immigrants are now coming in through ports of entry, not though border fences or open border.

 

[miamited]

What do you think? Will he be successful?

Trump Declares a National Emergency, and Provokes a Constitutional Clash

Hi hoodwink,

I'm not at all surprised, but I am disappointed. Frankly, my disappointment with this whole span of our current political upheaval began, for me, when Donald Trump threw his hat into the political ring. I've always considered him to be the kind of person that he is and not considered that kind of person to be a good choice for a national leader.

Basic human characteristics and nature of greed, avarice, narcissism, braggadocio and ignorance and the desire to hurt others, has never been what I'd want in a national leader. However, I understand how the political system works and fully understand that I'm not necessarily going to get what I think is right from a lost and dying world. I also fully understand that, according to my understanding of the Scriptures, what we're getting is exactly what we've been promised through the prophecies of the Scriptures.

So, having said all of that to preface my thoughts on this use of 'national emergency' to build a wall of fear and intimidation, I'm not at all surprised, but certainly disappointed. I believe that this is just another tactic for President Trump to turn his nation into a protectionist nation. A nation that is no longer particularly outward looking, but pretty much inward looking in all things. It supports a seemingly widely held belief among Americans that this life, this world that we live in, is all about us.

My hope is that through the legal system, just as with President Trump's attack on immigrant travel in the first few days of his administration, we will have enough time for his administration to run its course and be replaced with new players before we get too far along on this effort to put both Americans and Mexicans and Central Americans behind bars, or walls or whatever we want to call it.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[straykat]

I honestly don't care. If he gets what he wants, I know American born citizens might have more jobs to fill and big corporate donors like the Kochs would be unhappy. If he doesn't get what he wants, I know many from Mexico and the rest of the Southern Hemisphere will replace much of the decrepit culture of America with better family values and traditional Catholic beliefs.

 

[miamited]

Do you support the eviseration of American borders? Sounds like you do!

Hi hoodwink,

You began this thread with the question of how each of us understands the need to build a wall by declaring a 'national emergency' to do it. I thought you were just looking for a head count from the participants. However, having read this comment, I see that your real intention is to push your understanding of our needing the wall and it being built through whatever means is possible. I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term 'evisceration' to describe what is being done on our border. No one is cutting it up or cutting it out. The border is the border and it is a geographic imaginary line established by geographic way points and as far as I know, it remains where it has always remained. It isn't being cut up or taken out of it's place.

What we're speaking of here is nothing more than how defensible we're willing to make our border in order to stop people from just walking into the geographically determined area of our nation. Now, I don't think that there are very many people who think we don't need to do anything to curtail illegal border crossings. However, the issue seems to be more a matter of 'how' to do that in the most economical and environmentally friendly way. We have miles and miles of border protections already in place that are much less expensive and likely just as much a deterrent as some 30' wall. We can certainly improve upon that and extend the length of such measures, but this issue of illegal immigration isn't solved as simply as just putting up a wall.

As has been noted by many agencies that deal with the problem, illegal immigrants find themselves standing within our borders in a few different ways. Yes, some walk across the border using what are called 'coyotes' to direct their steps. Some come in through perfectly normal and legal border crossing points with temporary visas that just don't leave when those visas expire. Some come across at the border and some come across in the sky and still others come in on ocean going vessels. Personally, I'd hate to see the nation build this fairly fixed wall and find 10 years down the road that nothing much has changed except that we spent a boatload of money for some reasonably ineffective wall. Maybe we reduced our illegal immigrant problem by a few thousand.

Finally, President Trump has proven himself to be reasonably ignorant of most of the issues that he attempts to deal with. I really don't see any reason to think that same issue isn't a serious consideration in this matter also. Remember how, when he was campaigning, all of these issues were going to be so easy to deal with and how we were going to get tired of winning? Well, it hasn't turned out that way. Remember, 'who knew such and such could be so hard'? Despite his self aggrandizing of his intelligence, there really isn't a whole lot of evidence that's the case.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[The Barbarian]

I know many from Mexico and the rest of the Southern Hemisphere will replace much of the decrepit culture of America with better family values and traditional Catholic beliefs.

Pretty much already there. The fear and loathing we see from the extremists isn't something new. It was worse in the 1960s, and we had a similarly crooked president, who also wanted to pull down the Constitution. In the end, the good guys won.

Today, racism is crippled and dying. It's not dead, but it no longer rules. Violence is down, drug usage is down, except for parts of Trump country.

WEDNESDAY, Oct. 25, 2017 (HealthDay News) -- As substance abuse has declined among American teens, so have behavioral issues tied to criminal violence, a new study shows.

The researchers analyzed data from more than 210,000 teens, 12 to 17 years old, who took part in an annual federal government survey from 2003 to 2014.

During that time, abuse of alcohol, nicotine and illegal drugs by teens fell 49 percent. At the same time, behavioral problems -- such as fighting, assault, stealing, selling drugs or carrying a handgun -- dropped 34 percent, according to the study by researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.

"We've known that teens overall are becoming less likely to engage in risky behaviors, and that's good news," said study author Richard Grucza, a professor of psychiatry.

"But what we learned in this study is that the declines in substance abuse are connected to declines in delinquency," he said in a university news release. "This suggests the changes have been driven more by changes in adolescents themselves more than by policies to reduce substance abuse or delinquent behavior.
Decline in U.S. Teen Drug Abuse Means Less Crime, Violence

That doesn't sound "decrepit" to me. And while it might be tempting to put it off on Catholic values, the proportion of Catholics in the United States has remained around 25 percent for at least the last 40 years.

It's a better place now, in spite of the dark period we're passing through at the moment.