Meditation question.

[RickardoHolmes]

Some people regard everyone with gifts as charlatans and hypnotists simply because they do not have spiritual discernment and can not recognize the Holy Spirit.

That is a very valid point that I have been saying all along. We know these teachers by their fruits. The fruit of the good tree is good, the fruit of the bad tree is evil. It is not based on what color robe they wear, or they banner that they show, but by the teachings and actions that they show.

 

[GenemZ]

Mark is not a hypnotist if that's what you are implying.

Some people regard everyone with gifts as charlatans and hypnotists simply because they do not have spiritual discernment and can not recognize the Holy Spirit.

We must have spiritual discernment or we will either fall for false prophets, or we throw out the baby with the bath water and we lose out on the blessings of the Holy Spirit and forfeit our own gifts and spiritual growth.

Jesus said that the following will be deceived all their lives. All the while as they thought they were serving Him. They will call Him "Lord." Yet, they were never really saved. They instead, entered into a counterfeit power sphere that produced sight evidence... Faith is not by sight. But, for the naive, giving sight evidence gets them to buy their snake oil.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is
in heaven. Many will say (not a few) to me on that day, ‘Lord,
Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive
out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me,
you evildoers!’ Mat 7:21-23​

One can not disprove them simply by the sight evidence they wish to provide. Even though a hypnotist can get people feeling the joy, speaking in other languages, and even fall backwards in what is now called slain in the spirit.

We become warned against them by discerning how they teach sloppy-thinking teachings. Teachings that are driven by the desire to overtake the emotions of those they draw into their power sphere.

Its the teachings we should always test them by. For if they are truly so deeply one with the Spirit that they claim for themselves? Their teaching should be the most accurate and most careful thinking to be found in the churches. Not teachings filled with misapplication like all the church groups I have seen who get sucked into such a realm .

"Many will say (not a few) to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we
not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons
and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them
plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Mat 7:21-23​

It will be quite common to find. Many ... not a few.... will mislead naive and closed minded believers who will refuse the corrections that may come their way. Even Paul could not convince them... For, he said they drove him to tears. (Philippians 3:18)

 

[Romans 8]

Jesus said that the following will be deceived all their lives. All the while as they thought they were serving Him. They will call Him "Lord." Yet, they were never really saved. They instead, entered into a counterfeit power sphere that produced sight evidence... Faith is not by sight. But, for the naive, giving sight evidence gets them to buy their snake oil.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is
in heaven. Many will say (not a few) to me on that day, ‘Lord,
Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive
out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me,
you evildoers!’ Mat 7:21-23​

One can not disprove them simply by the sight evidence they wish to provide. Even though a hypnotist can get people feeling the joy, speaking in other languages, and even fall backwards in what is now called slain in the spirit.

We become warned against them by discerning how they teach sloppy-thinking teachings. Teachings that are driven by the desire to overtake the emotions of those they draw into their power sphere.

Its the teachings we should always test them by. For if they are truly so deeply one with the Spirit that they claim for themselves? Their teaching should be the most accurate and most careful thinking to be found in the churches. Not teachings filled with misapplication like all the church groups I have seen who get sucked into such a realm .

"Many will say (not a few) to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we
not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons
and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them
plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Mat 7:21-23​

It will be quite common to find. Many ... not a few.... will mislead naive and closed minded believers who will refuse the corrections that may come their way. Even Paul could not convince them... For, he said they drove him to tears. (Philippians 3:18)

It's interesting you use the term "they" to describe anyone with a gift. If you don't believe that gifts and divine healing through the Holy Spirit are possible, than why are you bothering to reply?

Do you believe in demons sir? Because I believe you may have a religious spirit. Your posts, and there are many are strife with accusation, blame, and discord. If we were living in the days of Jesus I do believe you would be a Pharisee.

 

[GenemZ]

Some people regard everyone with gifts as charlatans and hypnotists simply because they do not have spiritual discernment and can not recognize the Holy Spirit.

That is a very valid point that I have been saying all along. We know these teachers by their fruits. The fruit of the good tree is good, the fruit of the bad tree is evil. It is not based on what color robe they wear, or they banner that they show, but by the teachings and actions that they show.

Its based upon what the Scriptures tell us about certain specific gifts that were only intended to be temporary.

Gifts that did disappear, only to pop up many centuries later to be formed into groups by those who broke away from churches with sound teachings. Teachings that bored them.

 

[GenemZ]

Do you believe in demons sir? .

Demons are real.

 

[Romans 8]

Demons are real.

Great, but since we fundamentally agree on the gifts, what's the point in your replying? It's a circular argument.

 

[GenemZ]

It's interesting you use the term "they" to describe anyone with a gift. If you don't believe that gifts and divine healing through the Holy Spirit are possible, than why are you bothering to reply?

Do you believe in demons sir? Because I believe you may have a religious spirit. Your posts, and there are many are strife with accusation, blame, and discord. If we were living in the days of Jesus I do believe you would be a Pharisee.

I was healed via prayer. Even had a doctor confirm it.

God heals sovereignly today. There is no more gift of healing. Paul began with the gift. But, after God established Paul as being genuine, the gift stopped.

Today God will sovereignly heal from time to time. Demons can also agree to remove themselves when a fake teacher says something over a naive believer as a way to convince that naive believer to follow the false teacher... So, we need upmost diligence in discerning what is going on.

The Holy Spirit led me more than once in finding out how to treat something I had.... Something the doctor did not know how to treat without doing potentially as much harm as good. Several times this has been an answer through prayer.

But? Just to zap me with a healing? Only once. When I was young in the Lord - weak in faith - and needed such a sign to encourage while I was still weak in knowledge that gives us stronger faith.

 

[GenemZ]

Great, but since we fundamentally agree on the gifts, what's the point in your replying? It's a circular argument.

How do we agree? Its you who seems circular by what you just claimed. In what way do I agree with you?

 

[Romans 8]

I was healed via prayer. Even had a doctor confirm it.

Thanks for sharing! Jesus is so great!

God heals sovereignly today. There is no more gift of healing. Paul began with the gift. But, after God established Paul as being genuine, the gift stopped.

Jesus is the healer. He heals us through the Holy Spirit. It's faith that heals. Anyone can be healed if they have faith. Some people have little faith and therefore need someone to pray for them. The biggest issue for one with little faith is to keep their healing.

Demons can also agree to remove themselves when a fake teacher says something over a naive believer as a way to convince that naive believer to follow the false teacher... So, we need upmost diligence in discerning what is going on.

I agree completely.

The Holy Spirit led me more than once in finding out how to treat something I had.... Something the doctor did not know how to treat without doing potentially as much harm as good. Several times this has been an answer through prayer.

But? Just to zap me with a healing? Only once. When I was young in the Lord - weak in faith - and needed such a sign to encourage while I was still weak in knowledge that gives us stronger faith.

Knowledge doesn't give us faith. We don't read the bible like a book. It's a living book. The Holy Spirit reveals His Word to our Spirit when we meditate on His Word. We grow closer to God when we read His Word and He gives us faith. We can do nothing without Him so no one can boast.

 

[Romans 8]

How do we agree? Its you who seems circular by what you just claimed. In what way do I agree with you?

Sorry, that was a typo. Since we don't agree on the gifts, there not much point in debating them. Healing is one of the gifts. You've received healing, which is wonderful. But some people can pray for people are there are always results if the person has faith. Mark is one of those people.

 

[GenemZ]

Knowledge doesn't give us faith. We don't read the bible like a book. It's a living book. The Holy Spirit reveals His Word to our Spirit when we meditate on His Word. We grow closer to God when we read His Word and He gives us faith. We can do nothing without Him so no one can boast.

Knowledge of sound doctrine is the building material of all the faith we possess.

For, faith comes by hearing (comprehending).. Romans 10:17. Hearing the Word of God being taught, and understanding what is taught, becomes the substance of our faith!


And.. Our growing knowledge? It becomes the fertile soil for our love to grow in capacity.

" And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Philip 1:9​

Our faith is not to be based upon how strongly we feel. Though, as our faith grows, our way of being able to feel will evolve. Its not about emotionalism. Many base what they think is their faith by how strongly they feel about a matter.

 

[Romans 8]

Knowledge of sound doctrine is the building material of all the faith we possess.

For, faith comes by hearing (comprehending).. Romans 10:17. Hearing the Word of God being taught, and understanding what is taught, becomes the substance of our faith!


And.. Our growing knowledge? It becomes the fertile soil for our love to grow in capacity.

" And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Philip 1:9​

Our faith is not to be based upon how strongly we feel. Though, as our faith grows, our way of being able to feel will evolve. Its not about emotionalism. Many base what they think is their faith by how strongly they feel about a matter.

Do you think if we simply "memorize" the Bible, the more spiritual we become? There are countless theologians that have spent years in university and are many times further from walking with God than the alcoholic or prostitute walking the streets.

We have a mind, soul and spirit. When we study the Bible, the goal is to feed our spirit. We do this with the help of the Holy Spirit. This is the ONLY way to know God. We must pray every time we read the Bible for help from the Holy Spirit for discernment. That's what the scripture means you quoted in Phillipians 1:9.

The word knowledge you quoted in English is derived form the Greek word epígnōsis.

Below you can see that epígnōsis means first-hand knowledge. This is knowledge in the Spirit, from God (the Holy Spirit).

Cognate: 1922epígnōsis(from 1909/epí, "on, fitting" which intensifies 1108/gnṓsis, "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing. This is defined by the individual context. See 1921(epignōskō).

 

[GenemZ]

Do you think if we simply "memorize" the Bible, the more spiritual we become?

Sorry.. I would be stupid if I did.

Intellectual knowledge = Gnosis. That kind of study Solomon said wearies a man.

Bible knowledge learned that the Spirit makes to be alive and to become one with your being? = Epignosis.

Paul coined that term. "Epignosis."

Paul invented a new Greek word to fit the new life of spiritually alive knowledge. Knowledge that requires we be filled with the Spirit when taught from a competent pastor-teacher. Living knowledge that we are to know with ever increasing abundance and to meditate upon as it transforms our souls in the filling of the Spirit.

Its far from boring, dead knowledge. But, because God's ways are not our ways? And, the Spirit is opposed to the flesh, and the flesh is opposed to the Spirit? In the beginning days, learning sound doctrine will at times rub us the wrong way. For, it exposes our areas of pride that we do not want to let go of .... even spiritual pride. That is why Paul wrote to Timothy the following warning..

"For the time will come when people will not put up with/tolerate/
endure sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they
will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their
itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3​

James 3:1, said that if we were all Spirit led? That we should only find a few teachers amongst us.

But? We now a great number. Paul warned Timothy that the believers intolerance for sound teaching will cause a great abundance of teachers to be sought to please the various world views of people. Each teacher ends up finding some way to appeal to the carnal thinking of various groups.

Its why we see so many denominations today. Way too many.

 

[Noxot]

my two cents... I prefer sometimes to pray a single word usually either being yah (jah) or mom. when I pray my simple prayer to God I mean it and it usually occurs in a spontaneous manner. also sometimes when evil thoughts trigger in my mind my prayer also triggers.

one of my favorite ways to "meditate" is in the spirit of experiencing a beautiful aspect of nature as a child without fault. I find trees to be wonderful creatures. or the little plant with white and purplish/lavender colored flowers.

I think one way to understand "meditation" is to call it an experience of perception of reality deeper than the average shallow waters of the ho hum of life. it is life in the spirit.

John 10:9-10 (YLT)
I am the door, through me if any one may come in, he shall be saved, and he shall come in, and go out, and find pasture. `The thief doth not come, except that he may steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

and in fear with my lack of understanding, humbling myself in fear and thus to not lean on my own understanding the Lord puts the Holy ones with us and we might hear and learn. and this happens in the spiritual world, to our spirits.

Prov 9:10 (YLT)
The commencement of wisdom is the fear of Jehovah, And a knowledge of the Holy Ones is understanding.

but the flesh has to be dead least even that which we have is taken from us, when we think we plainly hear the word and understand it but are carnal rather than spiritual this happens... and notice how she does some things like wisdom, because it is wisdom distorted and maimed by hell.

Prov 9:13-18 (YLT)
A foolish woman is noisy, Simple, and hath not known what. And she hath sat at the opening of her house, On a throne--the high places of the city, To call to those passing by the way, Who are going straight on their paths. `Who is simple? let him turn aside hither.' And whoso lacketh heart--she said to him, `Stolen waters are sweet, And hidden bread is pleasant.' And he hath not known that Rephaim are there, In deep places of Sheol her invited ones!

 

[RickardoHolmes]

It's interesting you use the term "they" to describe anyone with a gift. If you don't believe that gifts and divine healing through the Holy Spirit are possible, than why are you bothering to reply?

Do you believe in demons sir? Because I believe you may have a religious spirit. Your posts, and there are many are strife with accusation, blame, and discord. If we were living in the days of Jesus I do believe you would be a Pharisee.

Who. Me ?

 

[W2L]

Anyone can be healed if they have faith. Some people have little faith and therefore need someone to pray for them. The biggest issue for one with little faith is to keep their healing.



.

Keep their healing? I cant agree with such a statement.

 

[W2L]

Proper meditation can be to empty our mind of clutter, but at times its also thinking of spiritual things. For me its both.

 

[Romans 8]

Keep their healing? I cant agree with such a statement.

If we rely on others faith and have none of our own, our bad back or whatever can return.

Proper meditation can be to empty our mind of clutter, but at times its also thinking of spiritual things. For me its both.

Emptiness is not Christian, it comes from eastern religion such as Hinduism and Buddhism. In Christianity our mind gets filled, not emptied. Leaving your mind in a vacuous state leaves one open to demonic influence.

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Proper meditation can be to empty our mind of clutter, but at times its also thinking of spiritual things. For me its both.

You are perhaps referring to the "Monkey Mind" wherein one's thoughts seem to race, or bounce around, or seem to overwhelm us at times. meditation is an excellent way to achieve focus and silence the inner noise.

I find the health benefits of meditation to be numerous as well. I would add that minimalism need not be only about removing unnecessary clutter from our lives; it can be useful to remove unnecessary thoughts and ideas as well.

 

[W2L]

In Christianity our mind gets filled, not emptied. Leaving your mind in a vacuous state leaves one open to demonic influence.

Do you have a scripture to prove either of these statements? What do you base them on?