Those who are born again can NEVER be lost.

Neostarwcc

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Once a person comes to Jesus for salvation and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit nothing can take their salvation away. That person becomes a part of Gods family and will NEVER be turned down or lost (John 6:37-40). They are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30) and nothing in heaven or on Earth can take their new Birth away. Those who are born again will never be plucked out of Gods hand and are given Eternal life (John 10:27-30).

But what about those who fall away? The Bible gives numerous warnings about falling away. Well a person who has been born again will NEVER leave the faith and those who do were NEVER born again (see 1 John 2:19).

I tell you today and I tell you for an eternity about the security in Jesus for those who believe. Those who are called, chosen, and predestined to share in God's kingdom will share in the glory of God. (Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Peter 1:20, John 15:16). Period.


So what do you think is the truth? Discuss.
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Once a person comes to Jesus for salvation and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit nothing can take their salvation away. That person becomes a part of Gods family and will NEVER be turned down or lost (John 6:37-40). They are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30) and nothing in heaven or on Earth can take their new Birth away. Those who are born again will never be plucked out of Gods hand and are given Eternal life (John 10:27-30).

But what about those who fall away? The Bible gives numerous warnings about falling away. Well a person who has been born again will NEVER leave the faith and those who do were NEVER born again (see 1 John 2:19).

I tell you today and I tell you for an eternity about the security in Jesus for those who believe. Those who are called, chosen, and predestined to share in God's kingdom will share in the glory of God. (Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Peter 1:20, John 15:16). Period.

If you disagree with me than you disagree with the apostlles, Paul, and even Christ himself and you make them all out to be liars. Because they ALL taught the Eternal security of the believer and how that believer was predestined for salvation. It's taught all throughout the Bible people! Now I'm not saying you aren't saved if you disagree with me. Because every one who trusts and comes to Jesus for salvation will be saved (Romans 10:13) . I'm just saying that you're wrong.

I agree with you.

It's so sad that some teach that we can lose our salvation.

Some think you can lose your salvation and then gain it back again then lose it again and possibly gain it back again.

So if I am saved on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday but not on Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday I better be very careful what day I die on -- that's so ridiculous!

M-Bob
 
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HTacianas

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Once a person comes to Jesus for salvation and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit nothing can take their salvation away. That person becomes a part of Gods family and will NEVER be turned down or lost (John 6:37-40). They are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30) and nothing in heaven or on Earth can take their new Birth away. Those who are born again will never be plucked out of Gods hand and are given Eternal life (John 10:27-30).

But what about those who fall away? The Bible gives numerous warnings about falling away. Well a person who has been born again will NEVER leave the faith and those who do were NEVER born again (see 1 John 2:19).

I tell you today and I tell you for an eternity about the security in Jesus for those who believe. Those who are called, chosen, and predestined to share in God's kingdom will share in the glory of God. (Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Peter 1:20, John 15:16). Period.

If you disagree with me than you disagree with the apostlles, Paul, and even Christ himself and you make them all out to be liars. Because they ALL taught the Eternal security of the believer and how that believer was predestined for salvation. It's taught all throughout the Bible people! Now I'm not saying you aren't saved if you disagree with me. Because every one who trusts and comes to Jesus for salvation will be saved (Romans 10:13) . I'm just saying that you're wrong.

Why then would the writers of the new testament warn so many times against falling away?
 
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marineimaging

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Why then would the writers of the new testament warn so many times against falling away?
People will come and claim to be Christ centered but will not be so in their heart. Why they warned against the falling away in the end days was so we would know and identify them and not be disheartened. Because also in these warnings I see them as those who are not true and real, but have ulterior motives in wanting to call themselves Christians. Their TRUE heart was and is in the lust for life and earthly things.
 
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Neostarwcc

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I agree with you.

It's so sad that some teach that we can lose our salvation.

Some think you can lose your salvation and then gain it back again then lose it again and possibly gain it back again.

So if I am saved on Monday Tuesday and Wednesday but not on Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday I better be very careful what day I die on -- that's so ridiculous!

M-Bob

Well that is just plain not true because if it were possible for a Christian to lose their salvation than there would be no way for them to get their salvation back and God would have failed in his promise to not lose a single believer. See Hebrews 6:4-6 and Jesus's statememts in John 6:37-40. In John 6:37-40 Jesus promises to not lose ONE single person who the Father gives to him. Zip. Nada. Therefore you cannot lose your salvation.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Why then would the writers of the new testament warn so many times against falling away?

I already addressed that in my OP. But I can answer you here. Which verses are you talking about? You can't use Hebrews 6:4-6 because I've already explained that verse several times to you and just what it means. I've also during those times have given you a verse in Hebrews proving eternal security too. Its the one where the writer if Hebrews says that people are saved once for all (forgive me I don't have access to a bible at the moment so I can't give the exact verse). So what other verses in the Bible even talk about Christians falling away? There's one in the book of John that I'm thinking of but Jesus never said "Those people lost their salvation" he just said those people in times of testing proved that they never had faith to begin with. John further comments in this in 1 John 2:19.
 
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Once a person comes to Jesus for salvation and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit nothing can take their salvation away. That person becomes a part of Gods family and will NEVER be turned down or lost (John 6:37-40). They are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30) and nothing in heaven or on Earth can take their new Birth away. Those who are born again will never be plucked out of Gods hand and are given Eternal life (John 10:27-30).

But what about those who fall away? The Bible gives numerous warnings about falling away. Well a person who has been born again will NEVER leave the faith and those who do were NEVER born again (see 1 John 2:19).

I tell you today and I tell you for an eternity about the security in Jesus for those who believe. Those who are called, chosen, and predestined to share in God's kingdom will share in the glory of God. (Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Peter 1:20, John 15:16). Period.

If you disagree with me than you disagree with the apostlles, Paul, and even Christ himself and you make them all out to be liars. Because they ALL taught the Eternal security of the believer and how that believer was predestined for salvation. It's taught all throughout the Bible people! Now I'm not saying you aren't saved if you disagree with me. Because every one who trusts and comes to Jesus for salvation will be saved (Romans 10:13) . I'm just saying that you're wrong.

I 100% agree with you. Those who are born again will never be lost and it is impossible for born again believers to become lost because then how can God give his promise of Eternal life? It makes no sense. It would make God a liar.
 
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Neostarwcc

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I 100% agree with you. Those who are born again will never be lost and it is impossible for born again believers to become lost because then how can God give his promise of Eternal life? It makes no sense. It would make God a liar.

Agreed. God cannot lie and I don't think any of the apostles lied either. Because they were chosen by God to declare his message to the world Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:16 that ALL scripture is God breathed. To write scripture you had to either be a prophet, an apostle, or someone chosen by God. All other scripture out there (if it even exists) is false.
 
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royal priest

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I 100% agree with you. Those who are born again will never be lost and it is impossible for born again believers to become lost because then how can God give his promise of Eternal life? It makes no sense. It would make God a liar.
Good point. Eternal security is established by at least two facts concerning Eternal Life. One is the fact that Jesus said it can never be lost John 10:28. Second is the fact that Eternal Life begins here and now in this life.
Upon exercising true faith, we pass from death to life:
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”
This happens by the resurrecting power of God. That's right, the resurrection begins in this life. New birth by the Spirit means new life, Eternal Life:
Ephesians 1:16-20
I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that... you may know... what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places
 
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8484838

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Peter himself says we are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5), which is explained by Paul in Ephesians 1:13. After we believe the gospel, we are sealed with the Spirit of God as a promise until the redemption of the purchased possession (Ephesians 1:14), which is when Jesus Christ shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation to all them that look for him/believe (Hebrews 9:28).

Good post brother, by the way.
 
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8484838

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If you disagree with me than you disagree with the apostlles, Paul, and even Christ himself and you make them all out to be liars.... Now I'm not saying you aren't saved if you disagree with me.
Is it really not a salvation issue, though? Because the eunuch was saved when he believed with all of his heart on the Lord Jesus (Acts of the Apostles 8:37).

Acts 8:37 “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

If someone thinks they can lose their salvation, that somehow Christ didn’t pay for all their sins, are they really believing him with all their heart? An answer that definitely needs to be carefully considered, but I wouldn’t say with certainty it’s not a salvation issue. It very well could be one.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Is it really not a salvation issue, though? Because the eunuch was saved when he believed with all of his heart on the Lord Jesus (Acts of the Apostles 8:37).

Acts 8:37 “And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

If someone thinks they can lose their salvation, that somehow Christ didn’t pay for all their sins, are they really believing him with all their heart? An answer that definitely needs to be carefully considered, but I wouldn’t say with certainty it’s not a salvation issue. It very well could be one.

You raise a good point but I'd be careful of what you say here. It's against the rules here to call a person not a Christian or question their salvation. Plus I didn't really lie I really do believe that SDAs, Catholics, and other controversial denominations are saved because they agree with the key points of Christianity like the Trinity, Jesus's death burial and resurrection..etc. Remeber scripture says that all who believe in Jesus will be saved. Not those who believe in Jesus will be saved but they also have to 100% believe in things that other people believe and believe is truth.

Just because I am right on Eternal Security and that its a doctrine taught in the bible doesn't mean that every single Christian has to agree with me in order to be saved. The other side has arguments to it as well. And quite valid ones which is why I'm interested in debating with people who disagree with me. Salvation is by coming to God as the dirty rotten sinners we all are and begging him for forgiveness. And that forgiveness is through his Son Jesus Christ. Without Christ there is no forgiveness. Remember Christ will NEVER turn down a truly repentant heart.
 
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8484838

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You raise a good point but I'd be careful of what you say here. It's against the rules here to call a person not a Christian or question their salvation. Plus I didn't really lie I really do believe that SDAs, Catholics, and other controversial denominations are saved because they agree with the key points of Christianity like the Trinity, Jesus's death burial and resurrection..etc. Remeber scripture says that all who believe in Jesus will be saved. Not those who believe in Jesus will be saved but they also have to 100% believe in things that other people believe and believe is truth.

Just because I am right on Eternal Security and that its a doctrine taught in the bible doesn't mean that every single Christian has to agree with me in order to be saved. The other side has arguments to it as well. And quite valid ones which is why I'm interested in debating with people who disagree with me. Salvation is by coming to God as the dirty rotten sinners we all are and begging him for forgiveness. And that forgiveness is through his Son Jesus Christ. Without Christ there is no forgiveness.
I understand that, but when the Bible says that Christ is the propitation** for the sins of the entire world, and that whosoever believes on him won’t come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life, and they still believe they can lose their salvation, they are no longer trusting the power of God to keep them, but instead begin believing in their own merits. As if what they did in their life had any bearing on the free gift bought and paid for in full by Jesus. I’m not questioning their salvation, that’s not my job. But I do believe that one must believe we are saved by grace through faith to be saved, and not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Anything less than eternal security is not in alignment with the grace of God, because salvation then becomes back-channeled by works. That’s all I have to say about it really. It’s a very important doctrine, crucial.
 
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8484838

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Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine!
Oh what a foretaste of glory divine.
Heir of salvation, purchase of God;
Born of his Spirit, washed in his blood.

This is my story, this is my song;
Praising my Savior all the day long.
This is my story, this is my song;
Praising my Savior all the day long.
 
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_Dave_

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We need to be careful to properly interpret Scripture that appears to indicate a falling away. In virtually every case, the "falling away" or "losing salvation" text refers to either someone who has not secured his or her salvation in the first place, or who is in danger of losing rewards ... not salvation.

Salvation -- justification -- is secured, once and done. Rewards are up for grabs as we "work out our salvation" -- sanctification.

The confusion comes when people don't understand that salvation is a three-part process.

• Justification -- delivered from the penalty of sin. Forever. Can't be taken away. Period.

• Sanctification -- delivered from the power of sin. We can go back and forth, some days better than others. But always seeking to become more Christ-like.
Rewards and positions of authority are to be had in heaven for how we conducted ourselves here on earth.

• Glorification -- delivered from the presence of sin. We shuck our mortal bodies and live in our new sinless, Christ-like state as we commune with God in heaven.

We should always be aware of which of the three is in view in any Scripture talking about "losing."

Incidentally, the book of 1John is the checksum text for knowing if one is truly saved. Unfortunately, at the snatching away there will be many occupants of pews in Christian churches still sitting there wondering where many of their friends went. They are the many who Jesus said he never knew.

They are still sitting there not because they didn't maintain their salvation good enough (sanctification), but because they never were saved (justification) in the first place.
 
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BobRyan

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I'd like to see the whole world in Heaven whether they believed correctly or not.

Rom 2:13-16 says that many who have no access to scripture at all - will be there. And the chapter ends by saying that many who do have access to scripture will not.

I take the same approach with you as I take with the cultists who visit my doorstep. I ask them if they are saved at this minute

how do you think that helps them? Why do you think that those who do not agree with the false doctrine of OSAS don't have assurance right at this minute.

Hint. "The Arminian can know that he is saved - right-at-this-minute, but cannot know that he will continue to choose salvation 20 years from today.....

the 3 and 5 point Calvinist cannot even know that".

The reason being that 3 and 5 point Calvinism "retro-deletes" today's assurance once it can be shown that 20 years from today "you fail to persevere".

Matthew 18 "Forgiveness revoked" refutes OSAS
Isaiah 5:4 - and John 1:11 shows the reality of free will
"What more could I do that I have not already done?" Is 5:4
 
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GTW27

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Once a person comes to Jesus for salvation and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit nothing can take their salvation away. That person becomes a part of Gods family and will NEVER be turned down or lost (John 6:37-40). They are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30) and nothing in heaven or on Earth can take their new Birth away. Those who are born again will never be plucked out of Gods hand and are given Eternal life (John 10:27-30).

But what about those who fall away? The Bible gives numerous warnings about falling away. Well a person who has been born again will NEVER leave the faith and those who do were NEVER born again (see 1 John 2:19).

I tell you today and I tell you for an eternity about the security in Jesus for those who believe. Those who are called, chosen, and predestined to share in God's kingdom will share in the glory of God. (Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 8:28-30, 1 Peter 1:20, John 15:16). Period.

If you disagree with me than you disagree with the apostlles, Paul, and even Christ himself and you make them all out to be liars. Because they ALL taught the Eternal security of the believer and how that believer was predestined for salvation. It's taught all throughout the Bible people! Now I'm not saying you aren't saved if you disagree with me. Because every one who trusts and comes to Jesus for salvation will be saved (Romans 10:13) . I'm just saying that you're wrong.

Blessings in Christ Jesus! For those that are truly His. Truly. Truly, How could we ever walk away from a Love such as this? And if we temporally wander away, that same Love still burns inside us. Who can resist a Love such as this? Is this not what we have been searching for, since our first breath?
 
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Neostarwcc

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We need to be careful to properly interpret Scripture that appears to indicate a falling away. In virtually every case, the "falling away" or "losing salvation" text refers to either someone who has not secured his or her salvation in the first place, or who is in danger of losing rewards ... not salvation.

Salvation -- justification -- is secured, once and done. Rewards are up for grabs as we "work out our salvation" -- sanctification.

The confusion comes when people don't understand that salvation is a three-part process.

• Justification -- delivered from the penalty of sin. Forever. Can't be taken away. Period.

• Sanctification -- delivered from the power of sin. We can go back and forth, some days better than others. But always seeking to become more Christ-like.
Rewards and positions of authority are to be had in heaven for how we conducted ourselves here on earth.

• Glorification -- delivered from the presence of sin. We shuck our mortal bodies and live in our new sinless, Christ-like state as we commune with God in heaven.

We should always be aware of which of the three is in view in any Scripture talking about "losing."

Incidentally, the book of 1John is the checksum text for knowing if one is truly saved. Unfortunately, at the snatching away there will be many occupants of pews in Christian churches still sitting there wondering where many of their friends went. They are the many who Jesus said he never knew.

They are still sitting there not because they didn't maintain their salvation good enough (sanctification), but because they never were saved (justification) in the first place.


You're right it's our rewards we can lose not our salvation. There isn't a single verse in the Bible that says that a born again believer can become unborn again. In fact it says quite the opposite it says that believers are sealed for the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30). If a Christian can become unborn and lose their salvation than Jesus lied in several passages of the Bible and that just cannot be true. Because God cannot lie.
 
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"The Arminian can know that he is saved - right-at-this-minute, but cannot know that he will continue to choose salvation 20 years from today.....
Apparently you do not believe that He is the author and finisher of your faith.

Well - I have assurance that He who began a good work in me will complete it until the day of the Lord.

It's a matter of my faith in the one who gave me to the Son vs. your faith in you living up to a certain standard in order to "stay saved".

I know that mine is justifying faith and I suspect that yours is not. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.:)
 
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