How does the Beast Convince the World he is God /Jesus

ewq1938

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When Jesus judges, he judges some unto to Heaven, others unto Hell.

Judgement for the saved isn't about going to heaven. It's about receiving eternal life and being able to enter new Jerusalem in the NHNE and that happens before the thousand years begin. It is only after the thousand years that the unsaved are judged to the LOF.
 
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lismore

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Hello

How does the Beast Convince the World he is God /Jesus.
l

Hello Facts. Roman Emperors in the past demanded to be worshipped as gods and were by many. People are little lost sheep, if they don't follow the shepherd they will follow anything that moves. Blessing to you :)
 
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Erik Nelson

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Virtually all historians, ancient and modern, are of general agreement that St. John wrote the Apocalypse during the reign of Domitian, sometime in the early-mid 90's of the first century. I agree that the number of the beast refers to Nero; but John wasn't writing contemporaneously with Nero, Nero had been gone for several decades already. It is more likely that John refers to the Nero Redivivus legend. As we read in History by Eusebius,

"Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men, finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God. He was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial to us." - Eusebius, Church History, Book III.13

Domitian was, as it were, a second Nero. Nero had, figuratively speaking, come back from the dead to wage war against the saints.

-CryptoLutheran
That interpretation opposes the plain reading of revelation, which says that 5 heads 5. Kings have been one head one King IS.

PRESENT TENSE on number 6.

Caesar Augustus. Tiberius. Caligula. Claudius NERO.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Judgement for the saved isn't about going to heaven. It's about receiving eternal life and being able to enter new Jerusalem in the NHNE and that happens before the thousand years begin. It is only after the thousand years that the unsaved are judged to the LOF.
That interpretation opposes the plain reading of Revelation.

the Church defeats the beast in revelation 19 BEFORE the Millennium of Revelation 20, brought about by the defeat of the beast in the previous chapter, BEFORE the time of Gog and Magog, revelation 20 verses 7 through 9, all BEFORE the final judgment comes the Great White throne, revelation 20 verses 10 on up.
 
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Dan1988

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First of all the a/c will not be revealed until after the Church is raptured. The nuclear destruction of America will bring him to power as the rEUnited Roman Empire will be the fourth and last kingdom to reign over the Earth before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and his Church at Jerusalem.
The book of revelation is the most difficult book in the entire Bible, it was written in such a way that only those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit will understand it.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that "America will be destroyed by nuclear weapons" Iv'e never heard that before. There are all kinds of interpretations but there is only one truth.

I don't believe in a god, who would destroy the country which has the largest number of believers in the world, I can't find anything in the book of revelation to indicate that God will do such a thing.
 
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Pethesedzao

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The book of revelation is the most difficult book in the entire Bible, it was written in such a way that only those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit will understand it.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that "America will be destroyed by nuclear weapons" Iv'e never heard that before. There are all kinds of interpretations but there is only one truth.

I don't believe in a god, who would destroy the country which has the largest number of believers in the world, I can't find anything in the book of revelation to indicate that God will do such a thing.
America will be destroyed after the Church has been raptured. One third of the Earth will be destroyed...
 
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ViaCrucis

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America will be destroyed after the Church has been raptured. One third of the Earth will be destroyed...

Seeing as there's no such thing as "the rapture" as Dispensationalists understand it, then that kind of throws that whole notion out of the window.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timothyu

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I don't believe in a god, who would destroy the country which has the largest number of believers in the world, I can't find anything in the book of revelation to indicate that God will do such a thing.
Do they put God's will before their own and love all neighbours as s self or do they seek gain at the expense of others, redefining good and evil to suit the cause??
 
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Pethesedzao

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Seeing as there's no such thing as "the rapture" as Dispensationalists understand it, then that kind of throws that whole notion out of the window.

-CryptoLutheran
Praying for you
 
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ewq1938

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That interpretation opposes the plain reading of Revelation.

the Church defeats the beast in revelation 19 BEFORE the Millennium of Revelation 20,

Well, it shows Christ defeating the beast not the church. This does happen before the thousand years happens.

brought about by the defeat of the beast in the previous chapter, BEFORE the time of Gog and Magog, revelation 20 verses 7 through 9, all BEFORE the final judgment comes the Great White throne, revelation 20 verses 10 on up.


Yes.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Well, it shows Christ defeating the beast not the church. This does happen before the thousand years happens
.
Revelations 19. Does depict a clearly Christ like figure. It does not demand a premillennial interpretation.

The church is the body of Christ on Earth. If, the church was victorious over. The beast. That would be symbolized the same way as a Christ like figure, defeating the beast.

Exactly as the beast symbolizes the Pagan Roman Empire. And the harlot Babylon symbolizes apostate Jerusalem. So. The conquering Christ like figure possibly symbolizes the church triomphant as it was under Constantine and the quickly ensuing Council of Nicaea. Which literally means Council of victory

obviously there is a Christ like figure who comes in conkers? And brings about a mini first resurrection. That obviously contains many elements which resemble. The Second Coming.

But I don't think it's enough to be conclusive. When Jesus comes the second time it will be for final judgment. It'll be an eternal separation of righteous this wickedness. For everyone, I General Judgment not just a mini resurrection of some Saints.
 
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Dan1988

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Do they put God's will before their own and love all neighbours as s self or do they seek gain at the expense of others, redefining good and evil to suit the cause??
The "they" you refer to are not whom I'm referring to. Gods people can never get anywhere near the government. Those who rule America are not Christians, they are secular authorities who represent the vast majority.

I'm referring to statistics, which show that America has the highest number of professing Christians in the world, but they are still in the minority because most are secular or atheist.

America's constitution was formed on Biblical principles, but they have been severely eroded over the past 4 decades. 70 million children have been murdered in their mother womb in America since the early 1970's when the abortion law was passed.

Christians are now jailed and persecuted in America for speaking out against the government, so we know that America is no longer a "Christian Nation" as it was in the early days. But it still has the highest number of believers.

The Bible never teaches us to go into the streets and burn cars and smash shops to make our claim, so Im against all those "Christians" who rebel and cause havoc by protesting and causing civil unrest.

The Bible teaches us to follow Christ, He never formed groups of vigilantes or challenged the powers with physical violence or force. He taught the Gospel which changes people from the inside out, not from the outside in.
 
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ewq1938

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Revelations 19. Does depict a clearly Christ like figure.

No, it is Christ.

It does not demand a premillennial interpretation.

It does actually when you take the order of listed in Rev 19 and 20 regarding when the beast and FP are cast into the LOF and when Satan is cast into the LOF since it says the beast and FP are already there proving the events of Rev 19 did happen prior to the start of the thousand years which proves Premill correct. Jesus returns before the thousand years. Scripture makes this clear.




Exactly as the beast symbolizes the Pagan Roman Empire. And the harlot Babylon symbolizes apostate Jerusalem.

No, the beast is a new global government that is unlike any that came before such as Rome. Also, Babylon is symbolic of false religion and is all deceived peoples who are in that religion not just Jerusalem. With these two things we must always think bigger than Rome and Jerusalem. Rome is long gone, and Jerusalem will take part in the abominations of Babylon.


So. The conquering Christ like figure possibly symbolizes the church triomphant as it was under Constantine and the quickly ensuing Council of Nicaea. Which literally means Council of victory


Nope. The church is the armies that follow Christ.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Obviously "his name is called The Word of God" is Jesus the Word of God.


But I don't think it's enough to be conclusive. When Jesus comes the second time it will be for final judgment. It'll be an eternal separation of righteous this wickedness. For everyone, I General Judgment not just a mini resurrection of some Saints.


Not according to what is found in the book of Rev.
 
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Erik Nelson

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No, it is Christ.
Not according to the postmillennial view. Many fine scholars like Kenneth Gentry support the post millenia view.



It does actually when you take the order of listed in Rev 19 and 20 regarding when the beast and FP are cast into the LOF and when Satan is cast into the LOF since it says the beast and FP are already there proving the events of Rev 19 did happen prior to the start of the thousand years
yes

which proves Premill correct. Jesus returns before the thousand years. Scripture makes this clear.
no






No, the beast is a new global government that is unlike any that came before such as Rome. Also, Babylon is symbolic of false religion and is all deceived peoples who are in that religion not just Jerusalem. With these two things we must always think bigger than Rome and Jerusalem. Rome is long gone, and Jerusalem will take part in the abominations of Babylon.
Already did 2000 years ago. Sounds like you're now sliding into Futurism. Or its age, Rome was already a very different kind of Polity and state then Babylon. Persia. And the Greeks. It was at its core a Republic not a Kingdom or empire.




Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Obviously "his name is called The Word of God" is Jesus the Word of God.
That is logical. But still does not automatically prove the premillennial perspective over the postmillennial one.
 
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ewq1938

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Not according to the postmillennial view. Many fine scholars like Kenneth Gentry support the post millenia view.

Well they are wrong. It is Christ.

It was at its core a Republic not a Kingdom or empire.

There is no real difference.

That is logical. But still does not automatically prove the premillennial perspective over the postmillennial one.

It proves the person whose name is the word of God is Jesus and then this next thing shows how Jesus does return before the start of the thousand years.

It does actually when you take the order of listed in Rev 19 and 20 regarding when the beast and FP are cast into the LOF and when Satan is cast into the LOF since it says the beast and FP are already there proving the events of Rev 19 did happen prior to the start of the thousand years which proves Premill correct. Jesus returns before the thousand years. Scripture makes this clear.
 
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Ronald

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Hello

How does the Beast Convince the World he is God /Jesus.

This is not a scripture hunt more of an out load wondering.

I know what scripture says. So does every one in here. So do people all over the world. Everyone is waiting for him so how does he manage to deceive a world that is waiting for him.

This question haunted me for years.

The only answer I can come up with is this.................... and it is sooooo simple................ I was amazed it took me so long to see it.

So here it is. Everyone is waiting for a person to fulfill a particular set of event that person will be labeled the AC. For Example

Many Believe the AC will make a Pact with the Jews and help them rebuild the Temple.

So ask yourself this..... if a Man, say a leader of the EU, did just that how many people would believe beyond any doubt he was the AC. Now if the Temple was rebuilt how happy would the Muslims be. So if the EU then came to the defense of Israel that would just be more proof he was the AC.

Example 2:

Say a EU Leader got shot in the head and then Lived. How many people would say he was the AC without even a doubt in their mind.

So what the AC must do is convince the world that someone else is the AC.

Now after the world is convinced someone is the AC and a series of events happen. What is everyone is waiting for............... What event. Well they are waiting for Jesus to show up and destroy him aren't they.

Now we can see why Satan and his demons have put so much effort into false doctrine over the centuries. It is to get to a point where people think the Arrival of the AC is one set of events that it really isn't. That way he can create that "Fake Set" of events convince the world someone else is the AC then he can show up with all signs and wonders destroy the Fake AC and convince the world he is Jesus returned to set up God's Kingdom.

The simplicity of this is diabolical
It is not that simple. As you know, there are many views of how this is all going to pan out.
People who are the reprobate will be given a strong delusion so that they believe the lies. But also the AC will perform super-natural miracles, rain fire from the sky, etc. That's enough to get everyone else on board -- for who can war against him?
In the Pre-Trib view, the Church will be gone.
In the Mid-Trib view, we will have to endure through the first Six Trumpet events and will be taken out at the Seventh trumpet (last). Then the wrath of God comes in the Seven Bowls.
The Post Trib View suffers us through the most deadly part and takes us out at the end.
Those are just Pre-Millennial views. There are Post Millennial, Preterist (Amillennial), Partial-Preterist views as well. So it's not all that simple. Many of us think we have it right and it's not the way you said! :)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Virtually all historians, ancient and modern, are of general agreement that St. John wrote the Apocalypse during the reign of Domitian, sometime in the early-mid 90's of the first century. I agree that the number of the beast refers to Nero; but John wasn't writing contemporaneously with Nero, Nero had been gone for several decades already. It is more likely that John refers to the Nero Redivivus legend. As we read in History by Eusebius,

-CryptoLutheran
I suppose.
So much for my 15yrs of viewing 1st century Jerusalem in Revelation.

https://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/ApocalypseCommentaries/Dating/Early/index.html
Apocalypse: Early Date Advocates

https://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/ApocalypseCommentaries/Dating/Late/index.html
Apocalypse: Late Date Advocates

No matter the dating, the Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God arrived at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad as prophecied by our Lord Jesus and the OT Prophets

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach and to say,
“Repent, for the kingdom of the heavens is nigh<1448>.
Mark 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled,
and the kingdom of God is nigh<1448>. Repent! and believe in the Gospel.”

Luke 21:
20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being compassed by armies,
then be ye knowing that nigh<1448> the desolating of Her. [Daniel 12/Revelation 18, 19]
28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is nigh<1448>.”
30 - When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh<1451>.
31 - So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh<1451>

Romans 13:
11 And this knowing the time, that hour it-is already out of sleep to be roused,
for now nearer<1452> of us the Salvation than when we believed.
12 The Night progresses, the yet Day is nigh<1448>.
We should be putting off then the works of the Darkness, we should be putting on the implements of the Light.

Hebrews 8:13
in the to be saying `New', He hath made Old the first
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh<1451> of disappearance

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End is nigh<1448>
be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

James 5:8
be patient! and stand-fast! the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord is nigh<1448>

Revelation 1:3

Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
That the Time nigh/egguV <1451>.

Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.
That the Time is nigh<1451>
 
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