The Pope kissed a notorious Islamist anti-Semite

[crossnote]

"The most important picture taken during the Pope's trip to the Arab Emirates was the Pontiff's close encounter with the imam of Al Azhar, Ahmed al Tayyeb. They kissed each other after signing a joint declaration which repudiated violence justified “in the name of religion”.

Religion?
I don't see any violence today in the name of Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism, while I see a lot in the name of Islam. But let's go on..

Tayyeb is the same Islamic religious figure who suspended all dialogue with the Vatican in 2010, after Pope Benedict XVI had dared to ask for respect following a series of devastating attacks on Coptic churches in Egypt. Since then, the condition of Christians in the Islamic world - their numbers, their persecutions, their exiles - has worsened everywhere, in Cairo, in Damascus, in Mosul, in Turkey, in the Philippines, in Pakistan, in Kenya.

So I ask myself: was there really any need for this physical demonstration of affection, for a kiss? Shouldn't dialogue be based on facts, rather than on the effusions and the right but empty words in deference to the cameras? When everyone gets excited, applauds, beats his heels and hands, I think there is something wrong.

And there is something wrong in the double standard of who is called the Pope's friend. Francis kissed an anti-Semite and an Islamist of the worst kind. “The solution to Israeli terror lies in the proliferation of suicide attacks that spread terror into the hearts of Allah's enemies”, said Ahmed al Tayyeb during the Second Intifada. It goes without saying that “the Palestinians have the right to blow up everything they want” (women, children, bars, buses, as long as the victims are Jewish Zionists).

For the imam, the Muslims who convert to Christianity deserve to be killed (he called them “apostates”), anti-Semitism is justified by the Koran and Jerusalem has never been Jewish.

Dear Pope Francis, are you sure that he was an angel of peace and not one of death?
Are you aware that violence is committed or attempted every day against the Jews in Israel and that your Egyptian friend justified it? Or that if the Jews are attacked by Muslims that is not "violence in the name of religion," but in the name of a justified “resistance”?"
The Pope kissed a notorious Islamist anti-Semite

 

[Basil the Great]

There has been plenty of violence in the name of Christianity in the past, so let us not forget that.

 

[TheLostCoin]

I don't know, growing up Catholic, I've always found that the paradox of Catholicism.

On the one hand, it seems that there is such an indifference towards religion which give the appearance of being "foreign" and "mystical" and "wise," without actually analyzing what each of those religions teach morally and doctrinally. And thus, the Catholic Church constantly preaches a John Lennon style of "love love love" and the need for acknowledging each of those religions as beautiful in God's eyes, despite the fact they often blatantly and explicitly, knowingly, deny that Christ is the Son of God.

On the other hand, if you are a Protestant, especially if you are a fundamentalist, you are nothing more than a rebellious heretic whose going to perish in everlasting fire for being outside the Church. Also, Lefebvrists are seen in pretty much the same light, although they simply teach doctrines which are far more in line with Rome in the years 1958 backwards.
And if you were baptized in their Church and dare leave their Church of Christ, you are like damned to the 9th Circle of Hell.



It's so weird - as someone who regularly attends the Orthodox Church, I've seen Catholics like almost get on their knees and beg for reunion, as if Rome is somehow deficient without Orthodoxy - but on the other hand, I'm a rebellious schismatic who ain't gonna be saved, and I need to repent and rejoin Rome as if Rome isn't deficient without Orthodoxy and I'm deficient for being interested in Orthodoxy.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Also, as I've pointed up elsewhere, this whole question is nothing new.

Pope Benedict also kissed Imams, and Pope John Paul II went so far to kiss the Quran in a very notorious AP Press image that Catholics have a hard time explaining away.

 

[timewerx]

First of all, I'd like to make it clear I'm not here to accuse anyone. But if this verse does not apply to this situation, I'd like to know why. In case anyone throws this verse up to our faces, it would be great if we could have a "way out" of this argument / debate:

2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. 11Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds.

And of couse we should not insist our beliefs on those who refuse to believe:

Matthew 10:14
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.

 

[JosephZ]

I don't see any violence today in the name of Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism, while I see a lot in the name of Islam.

You're not looking hard enough.

On the Christian side recently we have the Bosnian genocide, the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda wanting to establish a Christian state whose law will be based on the Ten Commandments, and The National Liberation Front of Tripura that is intent on creating a Christian state state and to expand the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.

Going a bit farther back in history, here in the Philippines Christianity was brought by the sword. First The Spanish extended their military and missionary conquests to the Philippines in the 16th century followed by the United States and it's policy of "Manifest Destiny" at the end of the 19th century and continuing into the 20th century.

"I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this way—I don’t know how it was, but it came...

...that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died..." -- President William McKinley

In the United States' attempt to "Civilize and Christianize" Filipinos, tens of thousands were slaughtered including women and children, rape and pillaging was widespread, and hundreds of thousands (Some estimates put the death toll between one and three million) died from disease and famine. Even after the Philippines gained its independence, the Philippine government continued the desire to Christianize the southern most island of Mindanao and offered incentives to Christians to move into the remaining Lumad and Muslim lands which led to even further conflicts and deaths of the native population.

This extended attempt to Christianize the Philippines continued until the 1960's which is within the lifetime of many alive today.

Buddhist extremism is widespread in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Thailand today. The current Rohingya Crisis has been called one of the worst humanitarian crisis in recent history with 10,000+ Rohingya people being killed, widespread gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence against the Rohingya women and girls, and close to one million displaced.

Terrorism also exists in Judaism. Jewish religious terrorism - Wikipedia

 

[Nithavela]

Religion?
I don't see any violence today in the name of Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism, while I see a lot in the name of Islam. But let's go on..

Would you like some examples?

 

[timewerx]

In the United States' attempt to "Civilize and Christianize" Filipinos, tens of thousands were slaughtered including women and children, rape and pillaging was widespread, and hundreds of thousands (Some estimates put the death toll between one and three million) died from disease and famine. Even after the Philippines gained its independence, the Philippine government continued the desire to Christianize the southern most island of Mindanao and offered incentives to Christians to move into the remaining Lumad and Muslim lands which led to even further conflicts and deaths of the native population.

This extended attempt to Christianize the Philippines continued until the 1960's which is within the lifetime of many alive today.

Buddhist extremism is widespread in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Thailand today. The current Rohingya Crisis has been called one of the worst humanitarian crisis in recent history with 10,000+ Rohingya people being killed, widespread gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence against the Rohingya women and girls, and close to one million displaced.

If you look at the big picture, I don't think religion is the problem here but misogyny which leads to unchecked aggression of men against women.

There's very little in Christian teachings (without the bias of other's ideas) that men have the right to overrule women in matters of religion and even in family. Many Christians for example have taken Apostle Paul's teachings regarding the role of women out of context. And have regarded God's Ruling in the Old Testament as law including those that concern subjection of women which again, taken out of context.

Centuries of wrong interpretations and placing men in absolute power is strongly linked to religions that resort to violence.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I don't see any violence today in the name of Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism

That can happen when a person goes around with their eyes closed…

 

[crossnote]

You're not looking hard enough.

On the Christian side recently we have the Bosnian genocide, the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda wanting to establish a Christian state whose law will be based on the Ten Commandments, and The National Liberation Front of Tripura that is intent on creating a Christian state state and to expand the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.

Going a bit farther back in history, here in the Philippines Christianity was brought by the sword. First The Spanish extended their military and missionary conquests to the Philippines in the 16th century followed by the United States and it's policy of "Manifest Destiny" at the end of the 19th century and continuing into the 20th century.

"I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this way—I don’t know how it was, but it came...

...that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died..." -- President William McKinley

In the United States' attempt to "Civilize and Christianize" Filipinos, tens of thousands were slaughtered including women and children, rape and pillaging was widespread, and hundreds of thousands (Some estimates put the death toll between one and three million) died from disease and famine. Even after the Philippines gained its independence, the Philippine government continued the desire to Christianize the southern most island of Mindanao and offered incentives to Christians to move into the remaining Lumad and Muslim lands which led to even further conflicts and deaths of the native population.

This extended attempt to Christianize the Philippines continued until the 1960's which is within the lifetime of many alive today.

Buddhist extremism is widespread in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Thailand today. The current Rohingya Crisis has been called one of the worst humanitarian crisis in recent history with 10,000+ Rohingya people being killed, widespread gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence against the Rohingya women and girls, and close to one million displaced.

Terrorism also exists in Judaism. Jewish religious terrorism - Wikipedia

You seem to be confused. True Christianity doesn't conquer by the sword, rather by the Gospel. What is going on even amongst false Christianity is Ecumenism, and the article was just one example.

 

[crossnote]

Would you like some examples?

That can happen when a person goes around with their eyes closed…

I hope you realize those quotes were from the article and not me.

 

[durangodawood]

.....Buddhist extremism is widespread in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Thailand today. The current Rohingya Crisis has been called one of the worst humanitarian crisis in recent history with 10,000+ Rohingya people being killed, widespread gang rapes and other forms of sexual violence against the Rohingya women and girls, and close to one million displaced.....

Done by Buddhists. But not for the sake of Buddhism, nor using Buddhist justification. Not comparable to "Islamic State" activities or similar in that regard..

 

[crossnote]

I don't know, growing up Catholic, I've always found that the paradox of Catholicism.

On the one hand, it seems that there is such an indifference towards religion which give the appearance of being "foreign" and "mystical" and "wise," without actually analyzing what each of those religions teach morally and doctrinally. And thus, the Catholic Church constantly preaches a John Lennon style of "love love love" and the need for acknowledging each of those religions as beautiful in God's eyes, despite the fact they often blatantly and explicitly, knowingly, deny that Christ is the Son of God.

On the other hand, if you are a Protestant, especially if you are a fundamentalist, you are nothing more than a rebellious heretic whose going to perish in everlasting fire for being outside the Church. Also, Lefebvrists are seen in pretty much the same light, although they simply teach doctrines which are far more in line with Rome in the years 1958 backwards.
And if you were baptized in their Church and dare leave their Church of Christ, you are like damned to the 9th Circle of Hell.



It's so weird - as someone who regularly attends the Orthodox Church, I've seen Catholics like almost get on their knees and beg for reunion, as if Rome is somehow deficient without Orthodoxy - but on the other hand, I'm a rebellious schismatic who ain't gonna be saved, and I need to repent and rejoin Rome as if Rome isn't deficient without Orthodoxy and I'm deficient for being interested in Orthodoxy.

Well that's what happens over time when His people turn their backs on God and His Word.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I hope you realize those quotes were from the article and not me.

Well, that can happen when the Israeli author of that article goes around with his eyes closed.

I wonder, when an IDF soldier kills someone, do they somehow become “non-Jewish” like Christian solders do during the moments of combat or is it just that the object being killed is not human therefore it is not an actual act of violence?

 

[Not David]

Is there a reason we always try to bring what others do when we talk specifically about Islam?

 

[crossnote]

Well, that can happen when the Israeli author of that article goes around with his eyes closed.

I wonder, when an IDF soldier kills someone, do they somehow become “non-Jewish” like Christian solders do during the moments of combat or is it just that the object being killed is not human therefore it is not an actual act of violence?

Jewish soldiers killed all through the OT period with God's sanction. With Christian soldiers, who believe in protecting and defending their country, it is a matter of personal conscience, but they remain Christian. Are you against protecting and defending one's country?

 

[JosephZ]

You seem to be confused. True Christianity doesn't conquer by the sword, rather by the Gospel.

I agree that true Christianity doesn't do this, but what's the difference between a member of ISIS telling someone in Iraq to convert to Islam or die and a Baptist telling someone in India to convert to Christianity or die?

What's the difference between a member of ISIS beheading someone in Syria for being a Christian and a Pentecostal beheading someone in the Central African Republic for being a Muslim?

What's the difference between ISIS killing tens of thousands in an attempt to establish an Islamic state in Iraq and Syria with a government based on Shari'ah Law, and the LRA killing tens of thousands in an attempt to establish a Christian state in central Africa with a government based on the Ten Commandments?

I can't see a difference.

 

[Nithavela]

I hope you realize those quotes were from the article and not me.

By quoting an opinion article, you are basically making its opinion your own. If you dont, you should put in a disclaimer.

 

[rambot]

The concept of loving your enemies is a really hard one for some people to understand. It's sometimes confused as simply "don't be a jerk to your enemies". What the pope did is the attitude we should, as Christians, be trying to emulate. It's hard.

I've always thought that a christian showing perfect love would be making EVERYONE on the political wings angry:

Loving Trump
Loving ISIS
Loving hate filled imams.
Loving moms who abort fetuses
Loving white supremacists

Everyone ON the political spectrum should be angry with radical loving christians.

 

[durangodawood]

The concept of loving your enemies is a really hard one for some people to understand. It's sometimes confused as simply "don't be a jerk to your enemies". What the pope did is the attitude we should, as Christians, be trying to emulate. It's hard......

Does loving your enemies mean you have to publicly validate them?