Do you go directly to heaven after you die?

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[7angels]

I've heard two teachings about this subject. I've heard that a Christians spirit goes directly after death to be with Jesus and awaits the resurrection of the body and I've heard of soul sleep where a Christian sleeps in the ground until the resurrection and the time from death till resurrection is instantaneous. Which is truth? Why or why not?

let us start with your soul sleep in the ground first. now you should be referring to hell and the bosom of Abraham correct? you know where the rich man goes to hell and calls for lazarith to bring him water and ect. to my understanding the reason Abraham and the others(in Abraham's bosom) were down there was because Jesus had not yet taken the keys of the world away from satan who controlled the world at that time. but with Jesus going to hell taking the keys from satan Jesus returned and brought everyone in the bosom of Abraham to heaven.

so now when those of us that accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior die, we are sent to heaven to await the millennium or 1000 year reign. those that don't accept Jesus live in hell until the appointed time. there are scripture I can list if needed.

God bless

 

[RaymondG]

I've heard two teachings about this subject. I've heard that a Christians spirit goes directly after death to be with Jesus and awaits the resurrection of the body and I've heard of soul sleep where a Christian sleeps in the ground until the resurrection and the time from death till resurrection is instantaneous. Which is truth? Why or why not?

I happen to believe neither.....but a third options....... If you die.....you go to "hell".

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

We should look now to be raised from our sleep of death.......never to see death again......as our savoir has already conquered it.

 

[Halbhh]

In the parable of the rich man, Lazarus was not among the elite of the world. He was a beggar that ended up paradise.

In the Kingdom, someone like Lazarus might be among the more righteous, or 'first', we can wonder. Service isn't only the more easily noticeable services, but includes subtle things that happen just between two people, such as a moment of kind regard given to someone that really needs it at some random moment for instance, which any beggar would be in a position to do as much (often) as someone at labor.

 

[Neostarwcc]

2 Corinthians 5:6-9 and Philippians 1:23-25 is clear that the soul is actively conscious after death; for the believer: immediately at the presence of Christ, and unbeliever: immediately in hades (often called hell) awaiting judgment for the lake of fire.

I agree. I was mostly curious about the other belief. I think I won't find too many people who believe in soul sleep though. I think mainly the DAD's and a few other minor groups believe in it.

I personally believe that we will be present with Jesus and have to wait for the resurrection because John saw a great multitude of people in heaven and that great multitude of people were getting kind of impatient waiting for Christs return. I would get impatient too if I had to wait thousands of years. I mean can you imagine Paul and the Apostles? They had to wait for over 2,000 years now. And it might be another 1,000 years before Christ returns. Who knows.

 

[Halbhh]

I happen to believe neither.....but a third options....... If you die.....you go to "hell".

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

We should look now to be raised from our sleep of death.......never to see death again......as our savoir has already conquered it.

But 'never die' can refer to Life, eternal life in the age to come. All the verses seems open to such wider meanings, so therefore it's not possible to gather just say 5 or 10 verses and be sure of a conclusion. My attitude is to remember even old ideas are themselves involving guessing also, and I'm content to just trust in God, and know that it will all work out.

For some reason, I keep remembering Philippians chapter 3 though, where Paul writes he has not yet even become certain of the outcome he seeks.

Please forgive me. But for everyone, I think it's the right moment to quote it --

 

[Halbhh]

For everyone:

7 "But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."
Philippians 3 NIV


Paul didn't even try to have certainty that he'd already obtained this! Rather he sought to, to press on towards the goal.

 

[redleghunter]

Right Paul believed in life after death. He says in 2 Corinthians 5:8 that he desired to be away from the body and present with the Lord. But Paul also believed a lot of other crazy things. Who's to say he's right? I'm not calling Paul a false prophet or a heretic but who's to say that Paul was right about everything.

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God..."

He is either an apostle or he is not. He says he is and was accepted by his brethren.

What I posted from the NT is apostolic teaching.

 

[Neostarwcc]

In the Kingdom, someone like Lazarus might be among the more righteous, or 'first', we can wonder. Service isn't only the more easily noticeable services, but includes subtle things that happen just between two people, such as a moment of kind regard given to someone that really needs it at some random moment for instance, which any beggar would be in a position to do as much (often) as someone at labor.

Why would Lazarus be among the elite though. Scripture says that Jesus loved him but it doesn't really say what he would have done to become elite. I think Lazarus was just a commoner who had Jesus's favor because Jesus had to show the world that he had the power to raise the dead.

 

[Neostarwcc]

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God..."

He is either an apostle or he is not. He says he is and was accepted by his brethren.

What I posted from the NT is apostolic teaching.

True he was an apostle and had authority to write scripture but... Idk... Some of the things that he said does seem to contradict what Jesus said in the gospels.

 

[Jonaitis]

I agree. I was mostly curious about the other belief. I think I won't find too many people who believe in soul sleep though. I think mainly the DAD's and a few other minor groups believe in it.

I personally believe that we will be present with Jesus and have to wait for the resurrection because John saw a great multitude of people in heaven and that great multitude of people were getting kind of impatient waiting for Christs return. I would get impatient too if I had to wait thousands of years. I mean can you imagine Paul and the Apostles? They had to wait for over 2,000 years now. And it might be another 1,000 years before Christ returns. Who knows.

Well, I think of that more as language of their incomplete redemption. I am more than confident that Christians who have passed out of this life are at present so consumed with the glory of God that they aren't aware of how long it has been, what has happened since, etc. They have nothing to distract them, no indwelling sin to struggle with, they have in a real sense already entered life, despite being bodiless. Once you're with Christ, you have entered the heavenly places. You're just waiting for the resurrection and future glory yet to be realized, but you cannot ever again depart from Christ.

 

[redleghunter]

Idk... Some of the things that he said does seem to contradict what Jesus said in the gospels.

If you think there are contradictions between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught, then Paul (in your model) would not be an apostle. But I have read and studied the OT and NT often over the years and I find no contradictions.

 

[Halbhh]

Why would Lazarus be among the elite though. Scripture says that Jesus loved him but it doesn't really say what he would have done to become elite. I think Lazarus was just a commoner who had Jesus's favor because Jesus had to show the world that he had the power to raise the dead.

When you use the word 'elite' I'm taking it to mean what Christ said were the 'first' --

1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7“ ‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Matthew 20 NIV


----------

(note -- the Lazarus in the story of the rich man and Lazarus isn't the one who was brother of Mary and Martha.)

 

[Neostarwcc]

If you think there are contradictions between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught, then Paul (in your model) would not be an apostle. But I have read and studied the OT and NT often over the years and I find no contradictions.

Right we fight for biblical inerrancy but sometimes I question whether that is true. Like in Romans 4:5 Paul says that a person who doesn't work his faith is counted as righteousness.

This seems to contradict what James says in James 2:17 and what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46. That's just one example of the many apparent contradictions in the bible. Idk...

 

[Neostarwcc]

Well, I think of that more as language of their incomplete redemption. I am more than confident that Christians who have passed out of this life are at present so consumed with the glory of God that they aren't aware of how long it has been, what has happened since, etc. They have nothing to distract them, no indwelling sin to struggle with, they have in a real sense already entered life, despite being bodiless. Once you're with Christ, you have entered the heavenly places. You're just waiting for the resurrection and future glory yet to be realized, but you cannot ever again depart from Christ.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I mean some people have been waiting over 6,000 years. That's a LONG time. I mean I know a year goes by like that but 6,000 years is a long time. Anyway.. It would make sense that many are crying out for the return of Christ because when Christ does return it is the erradication of all evil in the world. I long for the return of Christ too.

 

[RaymondG]

But 'never die' can refer to Life, eternal life in the age to come. All the verses seems open to such wider meanings, so therefore it's not possible to gather just say 5 or 10 verses and be sure of a conclusion. My attitude is to remember even old ideas are themselves involving guessing also, and I'm content to just trust in God, and know that it will all work out.

For some reason, I keep remembering Philippians chapter 3 though, where Paul writes he has not yet even become certain of the outcome he seeks.

Please forgive me. But for everyone, I think it's the right moment to quote it --

Yes, i agree that most pick a belief and then interpret scripture to match them.......since, like you stated, "All the verses seems open to such wider meanings." And I see nothing wrong with this.

However, we will all be amazed, shocked and confused.....when we go to God as a Child....and ask for the "Bread of Life" The kingdom of heaven, and the promised land are for such.

What we hear will first sound sweet......then become bitter in the stomach
"and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter."

But all that spiritual stuff aside.......If we look at the English of the sentence......"Never die" seems to apply not dying at all....whereas "not die" (if it were used) seems to be more conducive to a single death scenarios....like eternal death, for instance.

 

[redleghunter]

Right we fight for biblical inerrancy but sometimes I question whether that is true. Like in Romans 4:5 Paul says that a person who doesn't work his faith is counted as righteousness.

He was comparing works based salvation the Jews instituted through tradition and works based salvation is the religion of the pagan world, with God's Grace. Grace is unmerited favor. It is a gift. We are justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. (Romans 3:24-25 )

So Paul is correct. If any works other than the Finished Work of Christ is added to Grace, then it is no longer Grace.

This seems to contradict what James says in James 2:17 and what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46. That's just one example of the many apparent contradictions in the bible. Idk...

No, it does not. Really it does not.

Pitting verses against each other from different books and from a different context creates a pretext. It is applying eisegesis:

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words. (What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?)​

 

[Neostarwcc]

He was comparing works based salvation the Jews instituted through tradition and works based salvation is the religion of the pagan world, with God's Grace. Grace is unmerited favor. It is a gift. We are justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. (Romans 3:24-25 )

So Paul is correct. If any works other than the Finished Work of Christ is added to Grace, then it is no longer Grace.


No, it does not. Really it does not.

Pitting verses against each other from different books and from a different context creates a pretext. It is applying eisegesis:

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words. (What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?)​

Maybe. Anyway I didn't mean to turn this into a debate about biblical inerrancy. I personally believe in inerrancy as well but sometimes it just feels like a blind belief you know? I mean why can't I compare two different books to each other? All of scripture should be in harmony for biblical inerrancy to be true. And for Paul to say "Oh don't worry if you don't do works you'll still go to heaven. Because your faith will be counted as righteousness. When another apostle and Jesus himself said the opposite seems contradictory to me." I mean a true faith would have works in it. We are not saved BY our works but a true faith would have works.

 

[Albion]

I agree. I was mostly curious about the other belief. I think I won't find too many people who believe in soul sleep though. I think mainly the DAD's and a few other minor groups believe in it.

That is correct. Relatively few denominations accept the idea of soul sleep.

And FWIW, belief in soul "sleep," so called, is taken by cult-watchers, writers, and those organizations to be one mark of a religious cult, saying that this belief amounts to denying the immortality of the soul.

 

[His student]

Do you go directly to heaven after you die?

"........he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”........... They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” " Acts 7:54-60
Jesus rose to His feet from where He was seated at the right hand of God in order to receive Stephen into Heaven.

If Stephen didn't go immediately to Heaven when he died - Jesus has got to be quite tired by now - being on His feet for the last 2000 years as He has.