James's "Faith Without Works"

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

If any one wonders why Christians are guiltless for profaning the sabbath, then see why and how in Matthew 12:1-7. If you cannot see that truth, then ask Him. If not still, Lord be willing, ask me and I may be around still to answer you.

Old Testament Laws:

Moral: 10 Commandments written in stone By the finger of Y.H.W.H placed inside of Ark. Exodus 25:16

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Laws written by moses on parchment placed on side of Ark. Deut 31:26
1. Civil Law: Exodus 21:24 Eye for Eye
Leviticus 20:10 Death for Adultery.
Mal 3:10 Tithing

_______________________________________________________________________________2.Dietary Law: Unclean foods Leviticus 11

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3.Ceremonial Laws: Oaths, Numbers 30:2
Sacrifice of animals for sin, Exodus 29:10

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There were 613 laws in the Old testament

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Old Testament Laws Fulfilled By Yahshua the Christ:

1.Civil Law: Matt 5:38-39 Eye for an Eye.
Adultery John 8:3, Tithing Hebrews 7:1-12

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2.Dietary Law: Matt 15:11,17 1 Tim 4:2-5 Rom 14: All food is clean.

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3.Ceremonial Laws: Oaths Matt 5:33-37, James 5:12 , Hebrews 7:
Christ Lamb of God slain for man's sins John 1:29, High Priest Heb 7:

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4. The 10 Commandments were written in stone by the finger of Y.H.W.H two times. And placed inside the Ark. Deuteronomy 10:2-5. The other three Laws(making up the entirety of the Mosaic Law) above were written by moses on parchment and placed on the side of the Ark, showing they were only for a time till Christ fulfilled them. Matt 5:17-18

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5. The Moral Law is the only one that was not passed away.

Moral law written in our hearts.

1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:


Not with ink(not by mosaic law) but by the Spirit(law of the Spirit). No longer on stone(moral law) but written in our hearts(Moral law)
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;


Not of the letter of the law(mosaic law which killeth) but of the spirit(law of the Spirit)
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


While under the mosaic law the moral law also became a ministration of Death(being coupled with law written in ink) for the Moral law is easy but the Mosaic law is bondage. The Glory contained within these tablets was Glorious to behold but they who were to be under the law could not behold this law's Glory because of the veil of Moses. Which veil has been taken away and the Glory behind the veil revealed.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


The Glory that was done away(Glory seen through the veil of the Mosaic law) was Glorious. But the Veil being taken away that which remains(moral law which was hidden behind the veil of the Mosaic law) is much more Glorious.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


This is after the promise he would write his law within us, inside our hearts.
Jeremiah 31:33-34
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 10:16
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;


The Ten commandments were placed inside the ark of the Covenant written in stone by the finger of God Twice (Deuteronomy 10:2-5;Exodus 25:16; Exodus 31:16-18; Exodus 34:1) showing that they would stand for eternity. The Book of the Covenant(Exodus 34:27; Exodus 24:7; 2 Kings 23:21; 2 Kings 23:2) was only for a time, that is why he said there was going to be a new covenant(Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31). That is why the book of law, written by the hand of Moses(Exodus 34:27; Nehemiah 9:13,14) was not placed inside the ark of the Covenant with the ten commandments that were written in stone by the finger of God Twice, but were instead placed by the side of the ark( Deut 31:26) signifying that the book of law(the book of the covenant) was only for a time.


Each of the ten commandments are shown within the New Testament spoken of either by Christ or the Apostles. The keeping of the Sabbath day is no exception.

4th Commandment(Keep the Sabbath day to sanctify it)
In the Old Testament: Exodus 20:8-11,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deut 5:12-15

All of the Apostles kept the sabbath day holy and sacred.Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4

The Apostle Paul has said that the day of rest given by YHWH still remains: Hebrews 4:1-12


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The Eternal Covenant

The promise(Sabbath day) was indeed a perpetual covenant to show that those who kept it were sanctified by the Lord.
Exodus 31:13-18
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.


The Sabbath day was created for man(Mark 2:27-28) it was a covenant made in the beginning(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3) and restated in the Moral law on Mount Sinai(Exodus 31:13-18;Hebrews 4:4-5) it was given to the Jews who accepted the Lord God and were chosen by him(that is why he said it was a covenant with the Nation of Israel). The sabbath was given as a perpetual covenant for sanctification and promise to those who kept it holy(Exodus 31:13-14; Hebrews 4:9-11). When the kingdom was taken from the OT Jews and given to us(Matt 21:43; Romans 10:19,20; Acts 28:25-28) who are made Jews after the Circumcision of the heart and spirit(Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3) it was given to us(who are the new Jews, the people of God's Israel), being written in the fleshy tables of our hearts(2 Cor 3:2-6; Hebrews 4:9-10).


Christ who is lord of the Sabbath day(Matt 10:1-8; Mark 2:25-28;Luke 6:1-10) told us that the traditions of men added to the Sabbath were done(Luke 14:1-6) the same traditions spoken of by YHWH(Ez 20:13,16,18-21,24), that it was lawful to do the Lord's work on the Sabbath as well as do what we need to do(things that may or may not pertain to Godly work such as getting an animal out of a ditch/pit). Christ is the living word of God( John 1:1,14, Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44, Revelation 2:12,16, Isaiah 66:16, Eph 6:17) and Lord of the Sabbath day, he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow(Hebrews 13:8-9). Beings that he is both the living word of God and Lord of the Sabbath day it stands to reason that he would be the one to tell us the day was changed(or that it was no longer important). But nowhere in the bible do we find him saying this(or any of the Apostles for that matter).Instead we are told the seventh day Sabbath is kept in the New Heavens and the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. That it still remains to us(Hebrews 4:9)


Those who keep his Sabbath day(Saturday) are counted worthy of entering his Holy mountain in the last days.

Isaiah 56:1-12

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Hebrews 4:1-11
First Paul tells us to fear if the Promise of rest were to have left us.
1. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

The Gospel did not profit them who heard but did not have faith.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

We who believed enter into rest as we were commanded to by God when he swore to us by an oath that if we enter into the rest set by him after he had finished the works from the foundation of the world.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


That is why he spoke in a certain place(the Moral law) on this matter, showing that even did rest on this Seventh day sanctifying it as a everlasting sign and covenant between us.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And we are told again to continue to enter into his rest(keep the sabbath day) to receive his promise.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing this, we know it remains(the sabbath day remains) that some must enter therein(those of faith/belief). But to those to whom it was first given did not keep it because of their unbelief.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

When the Lord spoke to david he again limited a certain day(to david was again given the seventh day rest).
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

If Jesus had come to give us another day of rest(another sabbath) then would he not have spoken of another day? Christ never mentioned another other day for sabbath worship, it cannot be found anywhere in the New Testament.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Because no other day was given by Christ or YHWH there remains a rest to the people of God. The same Sabbath day rest shown and spoken of since the beginning of the bible, being shown all the way into the new heavens and the New earth.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Those that enter into God's rest(seventh day sabbath) cease from their own works, after the example of God himself ceasing from his.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

We are to labour to enter enter into that same rest(same sabbath day) lest we fall away from God as those others did from unbelief.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Point 3.

1. Romans 14:5-6
   

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


Some people try to use these verses to say that since Paul said, both the man who esteemeth one day above another and the man who esteemeth every day alike, to say that the seventh day has no more significance except to those who believe it remains.

But when we look at these verses in context we see that Paul is speaking of only two things: A. Weaker and stronger brethren B. What foods are clean and how they are made clean.

It is in the light of the surrounding verses that we see what Paul is speaking of in verses 5-6. He is speaking not of the Sabbath day but of people who are weak in the faith and decide in their hearts that the Lord does not want them to eat certain things on certain days. There are many studies on these two verses that can be found online that show that what Paul was speaking of here was not the Sabbath day but instead of those who chose to limit what they could eat on certain days.


While I do not agree with this Church's(Seventh Day Adventists) views on the translation of the Greek word used for unclean in romans 14

2839. Koinos
Translated as Unclean but could also mean: common, defiled, unclean, unholy.

I do agree with most of what they have to say about Romans 14:5-6 and they provide an excellent commentary/Exegis on it here: https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/Onedaybetter.pdf

I hope this helps show you that a Christian cannot profane the Sabbath day and be blameless.

 

[Blade]

Praise GOD for His word. All those verses are WONDERFUL..its GODS WORD. But.. how many understand "FAITH".. with out WORKS"..what do you think that word means? You were made in Gods image.. God called those things that be not as though they were. Faith is? The substance of things hoped for the EVIDENCE of things NOT seen.. calling those things that BE not as though they were..

As even Jesus said.. what so ever you desire when you pray BELIEVE you receive them you shall have them. Things you CANT SEE! The WORKS.. the THINGS are what HIS WORD say. It HAS to be written. It is yet not what ever we want. It HAS to be written. SOME have taken this to far..but none the less..it IS true.

You cant just look at this ONE way. As in ONLY "salvation". Most do not have any works. No faith at all. If we had just the faith of a mustered seed which is how small? Do you WORK your faith? See this NOT through mans eyes not how YOU just want to see it.. but how GOD means it. He is real.. ASK HIM! Seek HIM.. seek 1st the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.. what was said BEFORE that verse in Matt?

This is the deeper path..

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Does it say it is a parable? Didn't Jesus said to the thief "Today you will be with me in Paradise"?

Christ went to the grave that day to preach to those in Paradise(the Abode of the pious souls in the grave/hell/Hades/Sheol) and to preach to those in Prison(abode of the damned souls in the Grave). That is why we are told he did not first ascend but first descended into the lower parts of the Earth.

1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ephesians 4:9-10
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


Paradise- Paradeisos 3857
Thayer’s greek lexicon
3. that part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of the pious until the resurrection: Luke 23:43
We know that he didn’t ascend until mid or late morning because he appeared to Mary after she left his grave and still had yet to ascend.

John 20:16-17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
After speaking with her he ascended and then reappeared to the disciples and told them to touch him.(John 20:19-28).

It wasn't until Sunday that he rose after being dead for 39 hours. Also we are told that David is still asleep and the Saints as well.
Acts 2:29
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Revelation 6:
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We see that even after the first resurrection before the thousand years that there are dead still sleeping in the earth until the second.
Revelation 20:
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


God bless and guide you

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Since KJV Onlyism has crept in, here's a public service announcement:

1 hour and almost 27 minutes long?

You can do better than that for a public service announcement, can't you? That's a sermon.

And I am not KJVOnlyism and if someone else posted that, then I missed it, but I do rely only on the KJV because not all Bibles are saying the same thing and if there is going to be any progress in any discussion, this being my thread, I prefer to stick with the KJV, otherwise, those in error will go to another Bible version and say.. see? Then it becomes an impasse. Progress in the discussion is halted because people in error who use the KJV or claim that they do, go to another version when the KJV reproves. This has happened to me enough in life and so that is why I am emphasizing KJV for finding the truth in His words, even to those who claim they only use the KJV.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

I never said to obey the Jewish law, I said we have Christian responsibilities we have to obey

I lost track of our discussion and had confused your stance with skywriting, sorry.

I still apply faith in Jesus Christ to help me to follow Him for why His yoke is easy and His burden is light so I can hope in Him for all things for why I rest in Him. And He even helps me to do that too... to rest in Him, that is.

 

[RDKirk]

Becasue Paul never spent any time with Jesus, all his teachings are suspect on how believers are to act, becasue he never saw Jesus in action.

And Jesus never pastored a congregation, so all His teachings are equally suspect on how believers are supposed to act.

 

[timothyu]

And Jesus never pastored a congregation, so all His teachings are equally suspect on how believers are supposed to act.

What do you call His followers and many many disciples? He told them how to act.. put the will of God before that of man and love all neighbours as self.

 

[RDKirk]

What do you call His followers and many many disciples? He told them how to act.. put the will of God before that of man and love all neighbours as self.

A lot of people would prefer that there were no writings of Paul, because if all we had were the "red letters," they could actually do anything they wanted and claim they still had faith in Jesus.

 

[timothyu]

A lot of people would prefer that there were no writings of Paul, because if all we had were the "red letters," they could actually do anything they wanted and claim they still had faith in Jesus.

Actually just the opposite. Christianity conveniently leaves out the will of man vs the will of God and the fact that Jesus brought a movement opposite to the traditional ways of man which He commanded followers to follow. They accepted Jesus as Messiah freeing them from the world man had built in it's don image. More importantly they did what he told them unlike later churches who focussed on the Messenger and not the message, preferring to build their own worldly kingdoms

 

[BNR32FAN]

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

There is only one gospel.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Since there is only one gospel and Paul confirmed he was given the right hand of fellowship with James, then we need to take that phrase "faith without works" in context and may you find James heeding Galatians 2:10 in James 2:1-26 about remembering the poor.

James starts off pointing out an abuse of the poor by how they are treated in church service. You can click on this scriptural reference of James 2:1-13 to see that rebuke towards the church abuse of the poor.

Then in James 2:14-25 You will see that James is talking about another abuse of the poor when after church service, the church would verbalize their faith in God's Providence to the poor as if by saying so, God will provide for them without the church meeting any of their immediate needs that were starving and naked from the bounty collected at church service.

It is the church's verbalized faith in God's Providence that will not profit the poor nor save the poor from starvation and the elements. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence is dead, seeing how the church is not willing to lead by example.

So James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. James was talking about the church's abuse of the poor by verbalizing faith in God's Providence without leading by example, because they wanted to get our of helping the poor after church service.

We can see this is the kind of faith James was talking about in reference here.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That reference to Abraham and Isaac is about faith in God providing for His servants. See here.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of;.....

11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

The name of the place is God provides for His servant and that is the faith James was talking about in referring to Abraham and Isaac.

No one can apply James's "faith without works" to faith in Jesus Christ because salvation is without works. Paul explains this;

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Paul even referred to Abraham for why he was considered righteous by believing God.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is no way James would offer the right hand of fellowship with Paul or for Paul to even accept if they were speaking 2 different gospel.

So there can be no taking James's "faith without works" or "faith without works is dead" to be applied towards faith in Jesus Christ for salvation when James was specifically talking about the abuse of the poor that the church was doing in verbalizing faith in His Providence to the poor just to get out of helping the poor after church service.

Scripture cannot go against scripture; and there is only one gospel. Do discern that.

What about John 15:1-10 or Matthew 25:31-46? They both also teach that one cannot be saved by faith without works. The reason faith without works is dead is because faith without love is dead. Jesus constantly emphasized the importance of love for others. The examples given in James 2:15-16 and Matthew 25:42-43 are very similar. Both cases show a lack of love for others. Do you believe we are saved by faith without love?

 

[RDKirk]

Actually just the opposite. Christianity conveniently leaves out the will of man vs the will of God and the fact that Jesus brought a movement opposite to the traditional ways of man which He commanded followers to follow. They accepted Jesus as Messiah freeing them from the world man had built in it's don image. More importantly they did what he told them unlike later churches who focussed on the Messenger and not the message, preferring to build their own worldly kingdoms

None of what you said means anything in a real world where people and all their natural bickering needs to be recognized and handled.

 

[timothyu]

None of what you said means anything in a real world where people and all their natural bickering needs to be recognized and handled.

Love neighbour as self. Not our job to right the world but to sow the seeds.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

There is only one gospel.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Since there is only one gospel and Paul confirmed he was given the right hand of fellowship with James, then we need to take that phrase "faith without works" in context and may you find James heeding Galatians 2:10 in James 2:1-26 about remembering the poor.

James starts off pointing out an abuse of the poor by how they are treated in church service. You can click on this scriptural reference of James 2:1-13 to see that rebuke towards the church abuse of the poor.

Then in James 2:14-25 You will see that James is talking about another abuse of the poor when after church service, the church would verbalize their faith in God's Providence to the poor as if by saying so, God will provide for them without the church meeting any of their immediate needs that were starving and naked from the bounty collected at church service.

It is the church's verbalized faith in God's Providence that will not profit the poor nor save the poor from starvation and the elements. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence is dead, seeing how the church is not willing to lead by example.

So James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. James was talking about the church's abuse of the poor by verbalizing faith in God's Providence without leading by example, because they wanted to get our of helping the poor after church service.

We can see this is the kind of faith James was talking about in reference here.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That reference to Abraham and Isaac is about faith in God providing for His servants. See here.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of;.....

11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

The name of the place is God provides for His servant and that is the faith James was talking about in referring to Abraham and Isaac.

No one can apply James's "faith without works" to faith in Jesus Christ because salvation is without works. Paul explains this;

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Paul even referred to Abraham for why he was considered righteous by believing God.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is no way James would offer the right hand of fellowship with Paul or for Paul to even accept if they were speaking 2 different gospel.

So there can be no taking James's "faith without works" or "faith without works is dead" to be applied towards faith in Jesus Christ for salvation when James was specifically talking about the abuse of the poor that the church was doing in verbalizing faith in His Providence to the poor just to get out of helping the poor after church service.

Scripture cannot go against scripture; and there is only one gospel. Do discern that.

James mentions two types of faith. He mentions a saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless or barren faith that doesn’t produce works which is not a saving faith. Notice verse 14

“What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Can that faith save him? A dead and useless faith has no love for others and is self serving. That’s why it’s not a saving faith.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Paul even referred to Abraham for why he was considered righteous by believing God without works.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

But Abraham did works he just hadn’t done them yet. His works were a result of his faith. Had he not done any works that to would’ve been a result of his lack of faith.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Becasue Paul never spent any time with Jesus, all his teachings are suspect on how believers are to act, becasue he never saw Jesus in action.

Paul was chosen by Jesus. The apostles knew Paul and trusted Him. Paul actually did more than any of the other apostles. He planted more churches and wrote over half of the New Testament. Paul doesn’t teach salvation by works. Just because a person is counted as righteous doesn’t mean they are saved. They must still abide and endure to the end. Romans 11 the branches that are grafted in can be cut off and grafted back in again.

 

[timothyu]

Paul was chosen by Jesus. The apostles knew Paul and trusted Him. Paul actually did more than any of the other apostles. He planted more churches and wrote over half of the New Testament. Paul doesn’t teach salvation by works. Just because a person is counted as righteous doesn’t mean they are saved. They must still abide and endure to the end. Romans 11 the branches that are grafted in can be cut off and grafted back in again.

Jesus is the Messiah

 

[BNR32FAN]

A lot of people would prefer that there were no writings of Paul, because if all we had were the "red letters," they could actually do anything they wanted and claim they still had faith in Jesus.

I disagree, Jesus gave many stipulations to attaining salvation. Jesus undoubtedly taught conditional salvation. Jesus taught we must believe, love and honor God, love others, repent of sin, abide, bear fruit, and endure to the end to be saved.

 

[Der Alte]

Becasue Paul never spent any time with Jesus, all his teachings are suspect on how believers are to act, becasue he never saw Jesus in action.

Peter did not have a problem with the writings of Paul. In fact Peter referred to Paul as"our dear brother" and implied that his writings scripture.

2 Peter 3:15-16
(15) Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
(16) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

 

[Not David]

I lost track of our discussion and had confused your stance with skywriting, sorry.

I still apply faith in Jesus Christ to help me to follow Him for why His yoke is easy and His burden is light so I can hope in Him for all things for why I rest in Him. And He even helps me to do that too... to rest in Him, that is.

I believe we are to have faith to be saved; however; we need to cooperate with God.

 

[Not David]

Depends on your view of the punctuation issue.

Don't you mean interpretation?