James's "Faith Without Works"

[Danthemailman]

When James says that "faith without works is dead" (James 2:20) he does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

All scripture is in agreement. We are under a New Law through Christ, and sin is the transgression of this law.
1. James 2:
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

The law of Moses is how those who have respect of persons are judged under. If they break one point of the law of Moses, then they break the whole law and thus become transgressor of the law. Verse 12 refers to verse 8 as that is the royal law under Christ;

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So James was referring to the royal law Christ as the law of liberty to love others per verse James 2:8 If they do the royal law, they do well. If not, but have respect of persons, then they are judged by the law of Moses.

1 John 3:
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The contrast between those tow references confirms the truth I just shared. The law of Moses is the law of sin and death. The law of liberty is the same as the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus in having made us free from the law of sin and death.

Our hope in Christ and not in our religious flesh can be seen here.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If a man says he has faith but does not the work of God then he is not of Christ. For we are the workmanship of God created unto good works. We love our neighbor and the Lord not in word, but in deed and truth.
James 2:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

The Law of Moses was not against the promises of God(Galatians 3:21) but life could not come by the law(Galatians 3:21) so that before faith came we were kept under the law shut up in our faith(Galatians 3:23) by the law were the means to bring us unto Christ(Galatians 3:24) so that after faith had come by the promise which was Christ(Galatians 3:13,14,16,17,22,24,26,29) we were no longer to be kept under the schoolmaster which was the mosaic law(Galatians 3:25) but instead are after the promise of faith which is the law of faith(Galatians 3:7-9,11,24,25;Romans 3:27).

Your quote was shorted of the many references because of post length limit.

You need to make a distinction between the law of Moses and the law of liberty. They are not one and the same. None of the scripture cited supports your judgment that they are not of Christ. The scripture you misapplied are for discerning believers of whom are abiding in Christ and when they are not. If you consider that those not abiding already know the gospel, then those who profess to believe are called to do what? Repent. If you see a brother living in sin, and he already knows the gospel, you would react in the same way; tell him to go to Jesus for forgiveness and help to not live in sin. If he does not listen, grab 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm the word to him of the need to repent; if he still does not listen, bring him before the church. If he still does not listen to repent, then he is to be excommunicated, but note the beginning of Jesus words as regarding those astray as still His sheep..

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

We see the same instruction in dealing with wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not walk after the traditions taught of us and are "disorderly" as expounding on those that fall away from the faith for not holding the tradition that one cannot receive the Holy Spirt apart from salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Damned? Yes, because being left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation as a vessel of "dishonor" in His House is a damnation, but Paul goes on to explain that they are still brothers.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;....13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

How can this be? Paul even calls former believers to repent because Jesus Christ still abides in them, and if they do not, then they are at risk of being denied by Him when the Bridegroom comes.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.....

Example given about former believers before that call to repent to all believers not abiding in Him, but in iniquity.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So abiding in Him as His disciple is to be fruitful and that our joy may be full when the Bridegroom comes. That is what running that race is all about, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin so that we may be received by Him as a vessel unto honor in His House. Hebrews 12:1-2

No one can run that race for salvation for that would be denying Him as our Saviour that we are saved.
Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world...….9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

That is why His burden is easy and His yoke is light ( Matthew 11:28-30 ) because He will do it ( John 6:28-39 ) ; He will finish His work in us to His glory ( Philippians 1:6-11 ) when we rest in Him that we are saved as well as rest in Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him by His power; not by our religious strivings; but by our trust in Him for everything and to help us. Philippians 3:3-10

Remember only those who serve the Lord by keeping his commandments with faith are called righteous in the Last days.
Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 14:
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God bless you

The commandments are ..

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If any one wonders why Christians are guiltless for profaning the sabbath, then see why and how in Matthew 12:1-7. If you cannot see that truth, then ask Him. If not still, Lord be willing, ask me and I may be around still to answer you.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Verses 9-12 practically talks about my point with the Chapter being talking about circumcision and the Jewish law as the "works"

9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Paul was explaining that the blessedness of the Good News where God will not impute sin for why believers have eternal life is also applied to the Gentiles and not just the Jews.

 

[Hillsage]

Have you considered that because of this reference below from the same Book of Galatians, which was before that reference of Galatians 2:7, Paul was not insinuating that there are two different kinds of gospel but that Peter was to go to the circumcision while Paul was to go to the uncircumcision with that one gospel?

That is absolutely what I also was indoctrinated to believe. Because most bible translators incorrectly interpret the Greek word to "to". But it is not the adverb "to" in the Greek. It is the definite article 'OF', and is so rendered in the Greek Interlinears that I use to study.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

So Peter wasn't preaching a different gospel; he was taking that one gospel to minister unto the circumcision; the Jews.

Yes, he did preach a different gospel by teaching a perversion of the pure teaching of the 'one gospel'. And that's why Paul called him out as "condemned".

Paul judged Peter because Peter went back to the former ways ( maybe out of habit ? ) as a Jew to separate themselves from the believing "Gentiles" for fear of repercussions from the believing Jewish Christians. Paul had to defend the gospel to reprove the old way of how a Jew behaves since they were all Christians, Jews and Gentiles alike.

I agree, and those "former ways" were the 'mixture of law and truth' which I stated to begin with in my first post.

If they were preaching 2 different kind of gospel, then Paul couldn't reprove Peter.

Does this really make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me.

So there is only one gospel as Galatians 2:7 was just signifying Peter being a minister outreach to the Jews whereas Paul was being a minister outreach to the Gentiles, both sharing the same one gospel.

You should reread Galatians with 'new eyes' I think.

GAL 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Paul never bowed to "the party of the circumcision" Jewish Christians who make Jerusalem go back to circumcision. The apostles even bowed to their 'FEAR' of thee thousands of believing Jews.

ACT 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Paul then waffled and did not do what the Holy Spirit said to him, but what the apostles said to him.

ACT 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Paul is talking about the starting point of faith, and James is talking about the activity of that faith. Paul is about where faith is directed, and James is about proving that faith is genuine. Essentially, James is saying that a faith that remains in theory only is lifeless.

For clarity sake;

James was only addressing faith in God's Providence that when the church verbalize that faith in His Providence to the poor, the church had best lead by example by showing their own faith in God's Providence by meeting the immediate needs of the poor that are starving and perishing from the elements from the bounty collected at church service.

Paul wrote "with the heart man believes unto righteousness," so it's not mere head-knowledge. Genuine faith of the heart is trust, so anyone who trusts Christ will act on His words, and this is what James is saying to some people in the churches who failed to understand authentic faith in Christ.

So Paul is essentially saying that we (by ourselves) cannot add any value to our salvation by anything we do. Therefore, our faith must be 100% directed toward Christ and His completed work, and 0% of it toward ourselves and our own works. That kind of faith actually produces the fruit of the Spirit, since 100% trust in Christ makes a person His follower. Therefore, good deeds is the result of relationship with God, not a cause.
TD

I agree as Paul separates work from saving faith and yet exhort believers to continue good work because it is "profitable" unto men.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Amen! In James 2:21, we notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

There are different kinds of faith that can be applied in Christianity. There is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation without works and then there is a faith in His Providence to provide which requires setting an example if you say that to someone. There are other different kinds of faith, but these 2 are sufficient to show they are not one and the same thing.

Paul was referring to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation whereas James was referring to the church verbalizing faith in God's Providence to the poor in rebuking the church for not leading by example to the poor. Faith in God's Providence requires an example set for those who tell others to have that faith.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul reminds tis truth again but exhorts believers to maintain good works because they were profitable unto men.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

 

[SkyWriting]

Paul saw so much of the risen Christ in action it left him blind.

Acts 9:3-5

3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” 5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

That's a great example of legalism. I can't think of one similar occasion where Jesus said "go _______, and you will be told what you must do.” or anything similar. This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

Jesus appeared to Paul. Are there any similar stories in scripture?
This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Becasue Paul never spent any time with Jesus, all his teachings are suspect on how believers are to act, becasue he never saw Jesus in action.

Peter validated Paul's writings as scripture and thus inspired by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Paul received the gospel he preached from Christ Himself. And so he testifies. That gospel was not "second hand," IOW, so nothing he wrote is suspect. There might be cases that are cultural in nature, such as women covering their heads and such. But his doctrine is spot on, and nothing he wrote has any conflict with anything Jesus said or anything other apostles wrote. If you want to say his teachings are suspect, you'll need to get specific on what you think is suspect.
TD

Peter validated Paul's writings as scripture and thus inspired by the Holy Ghost. FYI

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.​

 

[SkyWriting]

Peter validated Paul's writings as scripture and thus inspired by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Oh, LOTS of people think highly of Paul. Tons.
I'm explaining what doesn't fit.

-Jesus appearing to Paul on the road.
-Paul being told what to do.
-Pauls lack of humility.
-Pauls falling back on legalism.
-Pauls persecution of specific kinds of "sinners", not really much different than his past persecution of Christians.
- I get the impression that he admired people who stoned sinners to death.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Yes, he did preach a different gospel by teaching a perversion of the pure teaching of the 'one gospel'. And that's why Paul cursed "thou art condemned" him.

Paul did not condemn Peter. He rebuked him for separating himself from the Gentiles believers that he was with, fearing repercussions from Jewish believers in Jesus Christ that had entered into their company. Paul was rebuking his action; not Peter's preaching as if he was preaching a different gospel.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

That's a great example of legalism. I can't think of one similar occasion where Jesus said "go _______, and you will be told what you must do.” or anything similar. This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

Jesus appeared to Paul. Are there any similar stories in scripture?
This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

Matthew 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

When James says that "faith without works is dead" (James 2:20) he does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

If a pastor tells the congregation to have faith in God to provide for their lives and yet tells the church they are robbing from God when they do not tithe, then the pastor's faith in raising up cheerful givers in how God will provide for the church is dead.

If a cult leader tells his followers never to go to doctors nor hospitals and have faith in God to heal, but he goes to a doctor or hospital, then that cult leader's faith in God to heal is dead. Nobody would listen to him any more about not going to the doctors nor the hospitals.

So when the church did not lead by example of their faith in God's Providence, in the eyes of the poor is how the church's faith in God's Providence is dead for why the church's faith will not profit the poor nor save the poor.

James was not referring to the church's faith as profiting the church nor saving the church. I am sure they see it as "profiting" when they are not giving from the bounty to the poor. It is in the eyes of the poor, that the church's faith will not profit the poor nor save the poor seeing the church's faith is dead.

 

[Revelation 22:10-12]

Oh, LOTS of people think highly of Paul. Tons.
I'm explaining what doesn't fit.

-Jesus appearing to Paul on the road.
-Paul being told what to do.

Matthew 10:1-8 & Matthew 10:18-20 makes it fit

-Pauls lack of humility.

Remember Paul's thorn in the flesh of hearing voices accusing him? How is that not humbling him for why God's grace was sufficient for him because of all the revelations so that believers will not think higher of him than they ought to think?

2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Revelation 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

-Pauls falling back on legalism.

Yet Paul rebuked Peter for separating himself from Christian Gentiles when the Christian Jews came into his company.

More than likely, you are not understanding what Paul was writing for why you would say that.

-Pauls persecution of specific kinds of "sinners", not really much different than his past persecution of Christians.

- I get the impression that he admired people who stoned sinners to death.

I do not know how you got the impression, brother.

Paul spoke of believers falling away from the faith as they were wicked and evil men that have not faith that walk not after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly and commanded believers were to withdraw from them, not treating them as the enemy, but admonishing them as brothers still.

2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 & 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

He never taught stoning in any epistle for the church to do.

 

[Tigger45]

That's a great example of legalism. I can't think of one similar occasion where Jesus said "go _______, and you will be told what you must do.” or anything similar. This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

Jesus appeared to Paul. Are there any similar stories in scripture?
This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

Where yoy see legalism I see the transformative power of Christ.

 

[SkyWriting]

Where you see legalism, I see the transformative power of Christ.

Yes. People see lots of stuff.
Jesus appeared to Paul. Are there any similar stories in scripture?
Has there ever been any similar stories of people having
a similar born-again experience, ever since that one?
Any similar transformative stories in the last 2000 years?
This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

 

[Tigger45]

Yes. People see lots of stuff.
Jesus appeared to Paul. Are there any similar stories in scripture?
Has there ever been any similar stories of people having
a similar born-again experience, ever since that one?
Any similar transformative stories in the last 2000 years?
This is why everything he wrote is suspect.

The church as a whole for 2000 years saw it as transfromative vs the isolated few who want to lable the motivating, empowering and impassioning grace of God as legalism.

 

[fhansen]

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

There is only one gospel.

Galatians 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. 6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Since there is only one gospel and Paul confirmed he was given the right hand of fellowship with James, then we need to take that phrase "faith without works" in context and may you find James heeding Galatians 2:10 in James 2:1-26 about remembering the poor.

James starts off pointing out an abuse of the poor by how they are treated in church service. You can click on this scriptural reference of James 2:1-13 to see that rebuke towards the church abuse of the poor.

Then in James 2:14-25 You will see that James is talking about another abuse of the poor when after church service, the church would verbalize their faith in God's Providence to the poor as if by saying so, God will provide for them without the church meeting any of their immediate needs that were starving and naked from the bounty collected at church service.

It is the church's verbalized faith in God's Providence that will not profit the poor nor save the poor from starvation and the elements. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence is dead, seeing how the church is not willing to lead by example.

So James was not talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. James was talking about the church's abuse of the poor by verbalizing faith in God's Providence without leading by example, because they wanted to get our of helping the poor after church service.

We can see this is the kind of faith James was talking about in reference here.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

That reference to Abraham and Isaac is about faith in God providing for His servants. See here.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of;.....

11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

The name of the place is God provides for His servant and that is the faith James was talking about in referring to Abraham and Isaac.

No one can apply James's "faith without works" to faith in Jesus Christ because salvation is without works. Paul explains this;

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Paul even referred to Abraham for why he was considered righteous by believing God.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is no way James would offer the right hand of fellowship with Paul or for Paul to even accept if they were speaking 2 different gospel.

So there can be no taking James's "faith without works" or "faith without works is dead" to be applied towards faith in Jesus Christ for salvation when James was specifically talking about the abuse of the poor that the church was doing in verbalizing faith in His Providence to the poor just to get out of helping the poor after church service.

Scripture cannot go against scripture; and there is only one gospel. Do discern that.

The bottom-line of the whole gospel, and the one thing that perfectly unites Jesus, Paul, and James in their teachings, is that faith without works is dead because faith without love is dead.

Love is what faith is meant to lead to, because faith is the re-establishment of a shattered relationship or communion between fallen man and God, who may then justify us via His indwelling ("Apart from Me you can do nothing." -John 15:5). And love is the very definition of justice for man, which is why the Greatest Commandments are what they are, and why love is said to fulfill the Law-but the right way, the New Covenant way. God places His law in our minds and writes it on our hearts to the extent that He causes us to love as we're meant to. And love acts, by its nature, for the good of others which is why Matt 25:31-46 makes so much sense in light of its criteria for judgment.

In fact a classical teaching of the church states it this way,
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."
And Paul could say, in 1 Cor 13,
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing."
And in Gal 5:6,
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love."
And Augustine could say,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

 

[timothyu]

As Paul taught, the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Your words speak without proper explanation, bits and pieces to justify a new doctrine of man (not Paul for they knew the meaning behind the words, inlike today they knew the backstory) ignoring the age old rivalry of will of man vs will of God which Jesus was all about when He brought good news of a Kingdom contrary to man's world. Ignoring the backstory is convenient to the Adversary but without the two gospels working together, of little use to Christians except for those who wish to hang onto the will of man as their driving force.

 

[timothyu]

The gospel of the kingdom is the telling of how things will change because of Jesus Christ.

His gospel clearly states the ways of man are polar opposite to the will of God and we must change accordingly.