When will Rome be in the Church?

☦Marius☦

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We don’t slander are own, we call out heresy in all its forms, whether outside or inside the Church. Every subsequent Pope held no choice, but to uphold the Bull of Excommunication because the Patriarch of Constantinople Excommunicated Rome and all subsequent patriarchs upheld the Excommunication, not being in communion with Rome is heresy and naturally all Popes upheld the Bull issued by Humbert regardless if it was wrong or not, however canonically the original Bull of Excommunication was not legitimate since it did not come from the Pope. Regardless if every single following Pope holds to it, since it has no legitimate origin to begin with.

Lol have you ever heard liberal Catholics and conservative Catholics talk about each other?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Technically and Canonically I’m not apart of any Church I’m just a simple Catechumen or someone on the way to joining the Church.

you were enrolled in the catechumenate?
 
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Anhelyna

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@Al Masihi
Some direct questions which may help others as they respond to you

1) Have you been able to attend any Orthodox Churches ?
2) Have you been able to contact an Orthodox Priest ?
3) Have you been able to attend any Eastern Catholic Churches ?
4) Have you been able to contact any priest - Catholic [ Eastern or Latin ] or Orthodox ?
 
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SingularityOne

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Yes they were based off of Christ's teachings...not a hierachy

Christ’s teachings (The Faith) are maintained in their fullness in the Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church added to the faith and Protestant’s have taken away from the faith. The hierarchy isn’t the problem, however, hierarchy is something that inherent in creation, but I will not get into that topic at the moment as it would be a digression.
 
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SingularityOne

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Well, I did enter the catechumenate last fall but I faced some major concerns in my parish and the church in total which made me confident that I should stay in communion with the pope (despite all issues in our communion).

The Orthodox church is fragmentary and reminds me to much of just another protestant sect. Sorry, but I'm just being straight.

There's just to heavy loads of antisemitism, internal schisms etc for my taste.
Besides this new friction between the seas of Constantinople and Moscow is just another example of a false unity in my eyes.

You have unity while you still disagree with one another like just about everything.

To me it kind of boils down to the phrase" by their fruits you shall know them" and the orthodox fruits are division and fighting.

Sorry if I annoyed you guys, but I was just being frank.

This does not nullify the fact that the Faith is maintained in it’s fullness in the Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church added to the faith and Protestant’s have taken away from the faith. It’s a matter of the Theology that has been maintained throughout all the ages unchanged (not added to).

We can disagree with one another, but that doesn’t mean that The Mind of the Church changes within the Heart of the Orthodox Church. The Heart of the Catholic Church has deviated from the Mind of the Church in it’s teachings/dogmatics. The Catholic Church is in schism.

However, I will agree that it is “by their fruits that you will know them”, but as the goal of a Christian is to crucify one’s mind/heart to the Mind of the Church, then The Mind of the Church should be the one that has been maintained in it’s fullness throughout the ages.

Edit: as I always like to point out... the early Church was conciliar, not papal run.
 
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prodromos

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Well, I did enter the catechumenate last fall but I faced some major concerns in my parish and the church in total which made me confident that I should stay in communion with the pope (despite all issues in our communion).

The Orthodox church is fragmentary and reminds me to much of just another protestant sect. Sorry, but I'm just being straight.

There's just to heavy loads of antisemitism, internal schisms etc for my taste.
Besides this new friction between the seas of Constantinople and Moscow is just another example of a false unity in my eyes.

You have unity while you still disagree with one another like just about everything.

To me it kind of boils down to the phrase" by their fruits you shall know them" and the orthodox fruits are division and fighting.

Sorry if I annoyed you guys, but I was just being frank.
Because we are all sinful people in the Church, you will always have squabbles and fights. The fact that we are still one despite all that is testimony to the truth of the Orthodox faith.
 
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SingularityOne

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If you ask two priests you'll recieve three answers so to speak. The lack of central control of the church is a major concern for me.
It feels as the union is on paper not in real life.

Maybe I wasn’t clear enough... The Mind of the Church (which was developed in a conciliar fashion) is “the central control” within the maintained Theology of The Church. One’s goal as a Christian is to crucify one’s own mind to The Truth. The Truth has been maintained in The Orthodox Church even if there is discord within The Church. This discord is nothing new. God willing, there will be unity someday, but until then I must trust the Holy Spirit within the Church that has been maintained throughout all the ages through prayer, my spiritual father, and other elders that God has blessed me with within the Church. I know where The Holy Spirit is, but I cannot say where it is not, at the end of the day though.

Edit: I will not reply on this thread about this anymore since it is not the correct place to debate. If you would like to open a debate thread in Justin Martyr’s, then I would be willing to debate your stance.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Well, I did enter the catechumenate last fall but I faced some major concerns in my parish and the church in total which made me confident that I should stay in communion with the pope (despite all issues in our communion).

The Orthodox church is fragmentary and reminds me to much of just another protestant sect. Sorry, but I'm just being straight.

There's just to heavy loads of antisemitism, internal schisms etc for my taste.
Besides this new friction between the seas of Constantinople and Moscow is just another example of a false unity in my eyes.

You have unity while you still disagree with one another like just about everything.

To me it kind of boils down to the phrase" by their fruits you shall know them" and the orthodox fruits are division and fighting.

Sorry if I annoyed you guys, but I was just being frank.

Church history shows otherwise. what is going on with these little schisms and excommunications had happened long before East and West split.
 
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ArmyMatt

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If you ask two priests you'll recieve three answers so to speak. The lack of central control of the church is a major concern for me.
It feels as the union is on paper not in real life.

we don't have a lack of central control. for us, it's Christ and not the guy in Rome.

and to say that we are guilty of folks having many different answers is not an argument to make. both Michael Moore and Pope Benedict XVI are Catholics in good standing (or at least I know Moore was). I am pretty sure if you asked both the theology behind where they stand on gay "marriage," abortion, and women's ordination you'd get two different answers.
 
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Ioustinos

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Well, I did enter the catechumenate last fall but I faced some major concerns in my parish and the church in total which made me confident that I should stay in communion with the pope (despite all issues in our communion).

The Orthodox church is fragmentary and reminds me to much of just another protestant sect. Sorry, but I'm just being straight.

There's just to heavy loads of antisemitism, internal schisms etc for my taste.
Besides this new friction between the seas of Constantinople and Moscow is just another example of a false unity in my eyes.

You have unity while you still disagree with one another like just about everything.

To me it kind of boils down to the phrase" by their fruits you shall know them" and the orthodox fruits are division and fighting.

Sorry if I annoyed you guys, but I was just being frank.

Disagreements have occurred within the Church since it's existence. That shouldn't discourage you from its truth. Any family is going to have disagreements, but that doesn't mean its not family.

I noticed your religious designation is "Traditional Catholic". That just points to the fact that even within the Roman Catholic Church there is disagreement and discord. As Marius noted, here in the US there is a huge battle occurring within the Catholic Church between traditional, conservative Catholics and liberal Catholics. Many are even opposed to Pope Francis because he is seen to be very liberal and contradicting Church teaching. For an example, you are SSPX - bring up the Latin Rite vs Novos Ordo of Vatican II amongst Catholics and grab your popcorn. It's like the Apostle Paul before the Sanhedrin.

So Roman Catholicism is not as black and white as you state - its just as messy as Orthodoxy.
 
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Barney2.0

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Some direct questions which may help others as they respond to you

1) Have you been able to attend any Orthodox Churches ?
2) Have you been able to contact an Orthodox Priest ?
3) Have you been able to attend any Eastern Catholic Churches ?
4) Have you been able to contact any priest - Catholic [ Eastern or Latin ] or Orthodox ?
I'd unfortunately have to answer no to all of those questions. And it will be like that for a few years.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Its messy alright, but far less so than your so called unity. If you hear how priests talk about one another across the EP-MP lines you'd stand corrected.
You talk about how laity fight one another in our communion, well in yours even clergy does so.

Except from apostolic succession and valid sacraments you guys have a lot in common with protestants.
I've begun to agree with some of my Orthodox friends who say that the EO is closer to the Lutherans than to us Catholics.
The lack of obedience to the pope is a major problem that you have in common.

We may disagree and complain about him, yeah even straight out dislike him but we dont throw our obedience to the See out the window just because we have a bad pope for the moment.

In the long run Peter unites...

that's just not true. there are Irish Catholic parishes which banned German Catholics simply because they weren't Irish Catholics, and let's not open what Byzantine Catholics have had to endure.

there is nothing that you can point at us that we can't point right back. simply having a Pope hasn't really helped for actual unity.
 
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