timothyu

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"Theology can never be definitive, for it is always a contemporary exposition of the definitive biblical word."

The concepts of those of the will of man trying to understand rather than live an alien concept, the will of God. As a result trying to make God's will fit the human mold, rather than change to fit His.
 
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dms1972

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Did Jesus use theology?

He used parables a lot of the time I believe. That said it doesn't seem to me a good idea to lump all theology together as all the same. Theology arose to combat erronenous teachings.

Also can there not be a theology of the Kingdom of God - for instance what about writers like George Eldon Ladd, Dallas Willard, and others... what are they doing when they write about the Kingdom of God? What about Augustine's City of God? Are these not theology?
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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I'm sure there is huge disagreement about this point. Please start a separate thread if you want to argue about whether the Catholic church is the one Jesus founded. Karl Barth isn't a Catholic theologian, so arguing about the Catholic church isn't going to help the OP answer her question.
No need. I know what you think. That's why you took a pot-shot at protestants. There is another current EO thread questioning when Rome and if Rome will be accepted into what they believe is the True Church. That game never ends, if you believe that one body contains the True Church. I dont.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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I quit Bible college over that. First I endure 2 hours of questioning Luke's authorship of Luke and Acts. Then I have to sit for another two hours on the contradiction between seperate accounts of Judas hanging himself. That as well as the fact that textual criticism had to be in every paper, biblical references were discouraged because parentheses should be reserved for scholarly works citations. As I started the theology part I encount Tillich who was obviously an atheist and everywhere you encountered emerging church theology. Our Bible colleges have gone to seed. Second and third generation academics who train for ministry have sold out to liberal theology.
It is really sad. But Jesus and his closest followers and John the Baptist and Saul/Paul--none got a NT seminary degree, so you are in good company!
 
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dms1972

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And thus a conflict over whose theology would win out while others simply lived according to God's will as commanded, not man's.

Just to be clear then, are you saying all theology only an expression of man's will and thoughts? Not saying I totally disagree, as you might have a point in regard to some theologies.
 
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dms1972

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It is really sad. But Jesus and his closest followers and John the Baptist and Saul/Paul--none got a NT seminary degree, so you are in good company!

It was a completely different way of learning for the disciples walking around the countryside with Jesus, listening to him teach and seeing him cast out unclean spirits, and heal the sick, then being sent out to do the same.
 
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timothyu

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It is really sad. But Jesus and his closest followers and John the Baptist and Saul/Paul--none got a NT seminary degree, so you are in good company!

I believe they said to spread their Good News of the Kingdom, not establish hierarchical institutions built upon the wisdom of man's opinion.

Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 
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timothyu

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Just to be clear then, are you saying all theology only an expression of man's will and thoughts? Not saying I totally disagree, as you might have a point in regard to some theologies.

I guess the simplest way to clear it is for me to say theology is based either from the viewpoint of the will of man or the viewpoint of the will of God. Both exist within Christianity as Christianity has not only served the will of God, but more so the traditional will of man which existed prior.
 
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PloverWing

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No need. I know what you think. That's why you took a pot-shot at protestants.
Do you actually know what I think? Did you look at my denominational affiliation in my profile?

I didn't take a pot-shot at Protestants. I took a pot-shot at the notion of arguing for the bazillionth time about which church (if any) is the one True Church, in a thread that's supposed to be about helping a student get through her theology coursework.
 
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timothyu

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I took a pot-shot at the notion of arguing for the bazillionth time about which church (if any) is the one True Church, in a thread that's supposed to be about helping a student get through her theology coursework.

As which church is based upon theology, it shows it's worth as compared to scripture.
 
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dms1972

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I guess the simplest way to clear it is for me to say theology is based either from the viewpoint of the will of man or the viewpoint of the will of God. Both exist within Christianity as Christianity has not only served the will of God, but more so the traditional will of man which existed prior.

I agree theology may be man-centred, or God centred.

So which theologies, in your view are based in and serve the will of God?
 
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twin1954

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The Kingdom of God is not a physical kingdom but a spiritual one. Does anyone believe that God is really concerned with that which is destined to be destroyed? The Lord Jesus used physical things to illustrate spiritual realities.

The Lord told Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world.

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
 
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Johnny4ChristJesus

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Do you actually know what I think? Did you look at my denominational affiliation in my profile?

I didn't take a pot-shot at Protestants. I took a pot-shot at the notion of arguing for the bazillionth time about which church (if any) is the one True Church, in a thread that's supposed to be about helping a student get through her theology coursework.
There is no visible church that is "the True Church". There are just many who think they are. Though you will hear people tell you theirs is. That doesn't make them right.
 
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timothyu

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So which theologies, in your view are based in and serve the will of God?

Those of the only gospel, the Gospel of the Kingdom, which being straightforward in scripture, really need no interpretation of man. Actually it has been man's theology and doctrines that have kept the Gospel of the Kingdom safely hidden in plain sight for almost 2000 years while it focusses on other things..
 
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timothyu

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The Kingdom of God is not a physical kingdom but a spiritual one. Does anyone believe that God is really concerned with that which is destined to be destroyed? The Lord Jesus used physical things to illustrate spiritual realities.

The Lord told Pilate that His kingdom was not of this world.

A physical kingdom for those of the spirit, regardless of what dimension it takes. But it also exists now in those who are of the will of God, having rejected the will of man.
The Kingdom (position of rule) of God is also God's governance, not man's governance.

How could Jesus' Kingdom be of this world at the time? It could not. One, this world was built upon the will and rule of man (not God) and has not yet been destroyed, and two the time of the end of days at the time of His crucifixion was not yet come.
 
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timothyu

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There is no visible church that is "the True Church". There are just many who think they are. Though you will hear people tell you theirs is. That doesn't make them right.

Agreed. God will confound denominations just as He did speech for the same reason.
 
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PloverWing

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I quit Bible college over that. First I endure 2 hours of questioning Luke's authorship of Luke and Acts. Then I have to sit for another two hours on the contradiction between seperate accounts of Judas hanging himself. That as well as the fact that textual criticism had to be in every paper, biblical references were discouraged because parentheses should be reserved for scholarly works citations. As I started the theology part I encount Tillich who was obviously an atheist and everywhere you encountered emerging church theology. Our Bible colleges have gone to seed. Second and third generation academics who train for ministry have sold out to liberal theology.
I'd be curious to hear more about your experience of Bible college (and to hear more from @VhiaLemon , if you're still around). I would expect to see the elements you've mentioned at a mainline-to-liberal place like Yale or Harvard, and to a lesser degree at an Evangelical college or seminary, but my image of Bible colleges was that they were much more conservative than that, not bringing in modern theology or higher criticism. Is my image of Bible colleges wrong? What was the curriculum like at your school?
 
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mark kennedy

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I'd be curious to hear more about your experience of Bible college (and to hear more from @VhiaLemon , if you're still around). I would expect to see the elements you've mentioned at a mainline-to-liberal place like Yale or Harvard, and to a lesser degree at an Evangelical college or seminary, but my image of Bible colleges was that they were much more conservative than that, not bringing in modern theology or higher criticism. Is my image of Bible colleges wrong? What was the curriculum like at your school?
Much of it was very good, some of the expositional studies were well crafted and the emphasis was on Pastoral ministry. Many of the Nazarene Bible colleges have turned into liberal arts programs, same could be said of mainstream Wesleyan colleges and seminaries. My Old Testament studies were fascinating, I learned a ton of things as a result of studies in the historical books and eight century prophets. The Nazarenes are tender hearted and sincere, I never got a lot of flack for being Calvinist. I just couldn't stand the Liberal theology that had made it's way into the curriculum, I started feeling claustrophobic and suffocated. I never took the final for Acts, which was the class that set me off. I never said anything to them because I didn't have the heart, I have no desire to be divisive or contentious.

It's distressing for me to see so many ministers influenced by liberal theology and especially disturbing to see so many evangelicals on the Trump bandwagon. It's awkward to talk to them out in the world.

I can get more into the Biblical studies I did sometime, maybe even here if we get that far. I've just been appalled at the influence of liberal theology and seriously thought of converting to Catholicism over it, only to see Pope Francis rise to be the leader of the Roman Catholic church and clearly, he is as liberal a Pope was I have ever seen.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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