Trump the Toddler

tulc

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Trump the Toddler: The President's Negotiating Strategy - The Atlantic
Donald Trump wants his wall, and he’ll hold your breath until he gets it.

Twenty days into a partial government shutdown, the impact on government workers, their families, and basic services is coming into view. Food is not being inspected. Transportation Security Administration workers are calling in sick rather than working without pay. Millions could be evicted from their home, hundreds of thousands of workers are about to miss their paycheck, and tens of millions could lose food assistance. All because the president isn’t getting his way.


As with so much of what Trump does, holding Americans hostage to partisan goals is a logical extension of what the Republican Party was already doing. During Barack Obama’s administration, Republicans shut down the government demanding the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. They threatened to put the U.S. government in default on its debt in order to cut the deficit, then as soon as they regained power, they vastly expanded it by passing upper-income tax cuts. Demanding that the Democrats cough up money for a wall on the southern border or the American people get it is different only in the degree of its absurdity.
tulc(thought this was an interesting piece)
 

Oldmantook

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Hank77

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The first of foremost responsibility of gov't. is to protect the safety and well-being of its citizenry. Therefore the wall is necessary to prevent unauthorized entry by anyone who is not a citizen or who has not been properly vetted. People put up fences and lock their doors for a reason. Common sense
Mostly to protect themselves from natural born citizens.
 
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tulc

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The first of foremost responsibility of gov't. is to protect the safety and well-being of its citizenry. Therefore the wall is necessary to prevent unauthorized entry by anyone who is not a citizen or who has not been properly vetted. People put up fences and lock their doors for a reason. Common sense
...and his throwing a tantrum and acting like a spoiled rich kid is going to accomplish that? :scratch:
tulc(just wondering) :wave:
 
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Oldmantook

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...and his throwing a tantrum and acting like a spoiled rich kid is going to accomplish that? :scratch:
tulc(just wondering) :wave:
What does it matter? I don't care how he acts. Seems reasonable to me. Pelosi stated that she would not allocate monies for the wall even if gov't workers return to work. Trump then took the only reasonable action - walk out on unreasonable people.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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What does it matter? I don't care how he acts. Seems reasonable to me. Pelosi stated that she would not allocate monies for the wall even if gov't workers return to work. Trump then took the only reasonable action - walk out on unreasonable people.

When did she say she would never support a wall? She has said publicly that she would negotiate on border security after the government is open.
 
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Oldmantook

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When did she say she would never support a wall? She has said publicly that she would negotiate on border security after the government is open.
It was widely reported that when Trump, Schumer and Pelosi met yesterday to discuss the matter, he first asked them if they would negotiate funding for the wall if the gov't were reopened. They replied in the negative. He then walked out.
 
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Hank77

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Depends. An illegal alien in the state of Arizona is twice as likely to commit a crime versus a natural born citizen.
Do you have a source? This is all I found....Lott research which wasn't correct and there wasn't any way to determine natural born either....

According to Lott, the data allowed him to identify “whether they [the prisoners] are illegal or legal residents.” This is where Lott made his small error: The dataset does not allow him or anybody else to identify illegal immigrants.
....
There is no reliable way to identify native-born Americans in the ADC datasets.
The Fatal Flaw in John R. Lott Jr.’s Study on Illegal Immigrant Crime in Arizona
 
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EpiscipalMe

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It was widely reported that when Trump, Schumer and Pelosi met yesterday to discuss the matter, he first asked them if they would negotiate funding for the wall if the gov't were reopened. They replied in the negative. He then walked out.

I stand corrected. I do agree with her though.

“Pelosi said she had wanted to stress that Democrats value border security in the form of spending on surveillance technology and other evidence-based fixes. The effectiveness of a physical wall is debated.”

Nancy Pelosi Says Shutdown Meeting Was Set Up For Trump To Walk Out
 
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Oldmantook

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I stand corrected. I do agree with her though.

“Pelosi said she had wanted to stress that Democrats value border security in the form of spending on surveillance technology and other evidence-based fixes. The effectiveness of a physical wall is debated.”

Nancy Pelosi Says Shutdown Meeting Was Set Up For Trump To Walk Out
Her presumption is based on a logical fallacy otherwise known as a false dilemma. It is not one or the other. Security involves using ALL means necessary to secure the border. Physical as well as electronic means are necessary. One does not negate the other. Just more obfuscation from the Dems.
 
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Hank77

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It was widely reported that when Trump, Schumer and Pelosi met yesterday to discuss the matter, he first asked them if they would negotiate funding for the wall if the gov't were reopened. They replied in the negative. He then walked out.
Trump's words, his tweet.....
"I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, are you going to approve Border Security which includes a Wall or Steel Barrier?" he continued. "Nancy said, NO. I said bye-bye, nothing else works!"
 
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Oldmantook

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Trump's words, his tweet.....
"I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, are you going to approve Border Security which includes a Wall or Steel Barrier?" he continued. "Nancy said, NO. I said bye-bye, nothing else works!"
Yup.
 
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EpiscipalMe

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Her presumption is based on a logical fallacy otherwise known as a false dilemma. It is not one or the other. Security involves using ALL means necessary to secure the border. Physical as well as electronic means are necessary. One does not negate the other. Just more obfuscation from the Dems.

Ironic that a Trump supporter would claim false dilemma.

Trump and his followers have been saying for years that Democrats don’t want a border wall and therefore don’t want border security.

But, you are right - security means using all means necessary. Trump only takes about a wal, only demands a wall. There is no evidence that more wall is necessary/effective and any bill should include a comprehensive plan - not just the wall.
 
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Stormy

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President Trump did not throw a tantrum. He simply walked away from democrats who refused to negotiate and are making America's security a political fight

President Trump does not simply roll over and play dead when confronted with pushy democrats

BTW.. I think it will be interesting to tulc that rumor is RBG will soon resign... Probably tomorrow.
 
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Oldmantook

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Ironic that a Trump supporter would claim false dilemma.

Trump and his followers have been saying for years that Democrats don’t want a border wall and therefore don’t want border security.

But, you are right - security means using all means necessary. Trump only takes about a wal, only demands a wall. There is no evidence that more wall is necessary/effective and any bill should include a comprehensive plan - not just the wall.
The wall is a physical deterrent. It is a basic barrier is it not? The Dems are on record for wanting a wall in the past. Now all of a sudden they don't. I wonder why?
 
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EpiscipalMe

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The wall is a physical deterrent. It is a basic barrier is it not? The Dems are on record for wanting a wall in the past. Now all of a sudden they don't. I wonder why?

Perhaps because in the past the wall was associated with an actual comprehensive plan.
 
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