Does marriage in the eyes of God have to be legalized?

RDKirk

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I don't think the government needs to get involved in a sacred union. And why should they take the disability from a guy that needs it just because their law has an ugly hole? God supported people rebelling to the point of getting executed.. i think he'd accept this. If lying could never be right then Esau would've been a prophet. That would've been bad. When the midwives lied in the beginning of Exodus about not getting to the boys in time to kill them, God was pleased.

Lying for good reasons is always good. The way sinful lying is described is taking advantage of someone. A disabled person should get disability. The government's not gonna fall apart from one disabled person getting his due.

They will have to live that lie, every day and every document they ever sign, because the government has begun using all means--social media analysis and everything--to verify benefit payouts. If (or when) the government discerns that a fraud has occurred, the couple could see garnishment of whatever wages they have, maybe even jail.
 
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Daniel Martinovich

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?
That is what the welfare\nanny state does. Makes you a slave, by design. I have offered guys a job and all they can think about is losing their benefits even though I'm paying them four times a much as their benefits do. Its crazy the subjugation of the mind.
 
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buzuxi02

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or

There's a few things that need to be addressed on this issue. In many states it's illegal for a clergyman to perform a marriage without a state license such as in my state of NY (I'm not kidding you).
The second thing is some Church's believe that marriage is a sacrament (such as my own) , in that case you are required to have a Church wedding (but not a government license), however in most countries your required to get the government paperwork done in order to schedule the wedding.

Note how I said most countries. Some countries do not have civil marriages. For example Israel does not get involved in the marriage business and each faith community governs it's own affairs. In most of Eastern Europe there was a time government had nothing to do with marriage. In my native country of Greece for example there was no such thing as licenses or civil unions until about 1982 or so. Or you can travel to many countries to small villages whether in Latin America or Siberia where central government authority does not have reach and bypass the first world red tape marriage bureacracy.
 
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Radagast

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For example Israel does not get involved in the marriage business

Yes it does (like most countries). It just requires that an officially recognised religious body perform the ceremonies and adjudicate divorces. There are still legally recognised bits of paper.

Virtually all countries "get involved in the marriage business" (and have done so for thousands of years) because of the legal property and inheritance implications.

In many states it's illegal for a clergyman to perform a marriage without a state license such as in my state of NY

Of course; it would be dishonest. A marriage without a state license would look like a marriage, but would be legally invalid. Such a sham could be used to fool parents, fool brides, or avoid the penalty for bigamy.
 
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mama2one

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"SSDI is the benefit paid to disabled workers who have paid taxes into the Social Security for multiple years. To receive SSDI, you have to fit the Social Security Administration’s (SSA’s) definition of disability, but you can be unmarried or married. Getting married won’t ever effect SSDI benefits that you collect based on your own disability and your own earnings record."


however, if he is on SSI
which is for those who didn't pay enough into social security, when a person marries, there is a complicated formula they use which is "deeming"
the new spouse's income is deemed available to the other spouse and depending on how much they make, the benefit would be decreased or could disappear


What Will Happen If Someone is Found Guilty on Welfare Fraud?
 
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Hazelelponi

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?

I am disabled. When your on disability you can get married if you like. Disability in the U.S. is based on your earnings and has nothing to do with household income. .ca can legally marry anyone he wants, and her income will never prevent him from getting his disability check each month, it sounds like he is confused about disability law, or deceiving her.

That said, marriage is a covenant and the state doesn't have to approve two people making a covanent with one another before God and their freinds and family UNLESS the state she is living in requires it. (And many states, believe it or not, still require a marriage license to co- habitate as husband and wife, and Christians do have to follow the laws of the land unless it is expressly against our faith)

Look up covanent marriage..Those are marriages that follow our Christian beliefs but still offer protections to the couple.

The reason most Pastors have something against performing marriages without state involvement is because if the man turns out to be a deadbeat the woman involved and any potential offspring have little to no legal protections.

The red flag in your post is what I said in my first paragraph about spousal income having no affect on disability payments - it doesn't and he might be attempting to mislead her into a sinful relationship. No Pastor should help him to do that.
 
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Hazelelponi

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"SSDI is the benefit paid to disabled workers who have paid taxes into the Social Security for multiple years. To receive SSDI, you have to fit the Social Security Administration’s (SSA’s) definition of disability, but you can be unmarried or married. Getting married won’t ever effect SSDI benefits that you collect based on your own disability and your own earnings record."


however, if he is on SSI
which is for those who didn't pay enough into social security, when a person marries, there is a complicated formula they use which is "deeming"
the new spouse's income is deemed available to the other spouse and depending on how much they make, the benefit would be decreased or could disappear


What Will Happen If Someone is Found Guilty on Welfare Fraud?

I have social security disability and if my husband stopped working tomorrow my disability would only go up by 150 dollars per month under the social security disability insurance.

It's not that big of a deal, they really don't give you much... in my house the benefit of a working husband far far far outweighs that 150 dollars. And that additional money is only because he is in the household. If I wasn't married they wouldn't increase my SSD at all.

Anyone who is that worried over so little is likely not wanting to get married so much in the first place.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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Years ago, we had some friends who both lived in a home for the disabled. She was permanently in wheelchair and he was able to walk a little but also pretty much in a wheelchair. They weren't allowed to be legally married because the home did not permit it. So our pastor (I was Lutheran at the time) did it "under the table".
 
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whereloveandmercymeet

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Years ago, we had some friends who both lived in a home for the disabled. She was permanently in wheelchair and he was able to walk a little but also pretty much in a wheelchair. They weren't allowed to be legally married because the home did not permit it. So our pastor (I was Lutheran at the time) did it "under the table".

That seems so unfair :(
 
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Strong in Him

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check.

So her boyfriend would rather continue to receive benefits than commit himself, in marriage, to her?

They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian.

In God's eyes it is consummation of the marriage that makes two people married.
And I think in law, if they went through a ceremony, wanted to split a year later and testified that the marriage had never been consummated, it would be annulled.
It sounds to me as though this is what you mean by "marrying someone" without having a marriage licence or going through a ceremony.

But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it.

Jesus said that for this reason a man leaves his family and joins with his wife; that they would become one flesh.
Paul taught that sexual relations outside of marriage is wrong.
Her Christian friends, and family, are "pestering her about it" for a reason - having intimate, sexual relations with someone before marriage is not God's ideal, or plan, for us.

I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do?

From what you've said, her boyfriend CAN legally do it - there's no law against getting married.
He may not be WILLING to, because he'll get more money as a single disabled person than as a married disabled person - but that is an entirely different matter.
Is that even the case? Could be get a part time job and still keep many of his benefits? Could his wife claim carer's allowance?

Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks?

It's not ONE Christian though, is it? It's her family and friends - who are saying what they say because of the Bible's teaching.

I personally think denominations ruin Christianity.

Granted.
But we're not talking about that; we're talking about going against the Bible's teaching.

They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian.

No, not always.

For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't?

Going to hell is not determined by whether or not you drink alcohol. Nor, actually, is it determined by whether or not you sleep with someone before marriage. But if you love God, you will want to please HIM first, obey his word and not do anything to hurt him.

It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?

If they're judging people not to be Christians because they have different Christian practices - like baptising babies, or anything else - then you are right, they should not do that; no one should.
But they have the right to say, "this is what Scripture says .... you may be a Christian if you ignore it and do your own thing, but your life will not be showing obedience and producing good fruit."
 
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Angeldove97

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The Catholic Church requires that we have a marriage license - so there's no way around being sacramentally married and legally married. I put much more value into the Sacrament of course, but try to get away with fraud is a sin too. Their best bet is to legally get married, as well as, have a church wedding if they want to be "good" Christians.

Hubby and I would have saved so much money on our taxes, but we knew the best thing to do was to legally become married. Also, I wanted my husband to have legal say if anything happened to me - she won't have that if it ever happens to them.
 
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Neostarwcc

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?


What the hell state or country does your friend live in that they'd lose their disability check for getting a marriage license? I get disability and I have a marriage license. My wife and I have been married for almost four years now. I never lost my check. I'm what BS social security is feeding your friend but by law they shouldn't lose their disability check just for getting married.

As to whether or not getting married without a license is a sin or not I have no clue. But won't 99.9% of places not marry you without a marriage license? The judge that married my wife and I couldn't marry us until we got one.
 
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RDKirk

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There's a few things that need to be addressed on this issue. In many states it's illegal for a clergyman to perform a marriage without a state license such as in my state of NY (I'm not kidding you).

New York requires a marriage license to be signed by a clergycritter ordained by any religion. Anyone ordained by whatever rules of whatever religion is "licensed" to perform weddings in NY. New York has no specific rule or provisions for who can be ordained or how that person is ordained. The "license" is merely an ID card.
 
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JackRT

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The Catholic Church requires that we have a marriage license - so there's no way around being sacramentally married and legally married. I put much more value into the Sacrament of course, but try to get away with fraud is a sin too. Their best bet is to legally get married, as well as, have a church wedding if they want to be "good" Christians.

Hubby and I would have saved so much money on our taxes, but we knew the best thing to do was to legally become married. Also, I wanted my husband to have legal say if anything happened to me - she won't have that if it ever happens to them.

In Canada common law marriage is recognized by the courts after one to three years (depending on province) as the same as a church or civil marriage in terms of rights and obligations. I suspect that may be true in the USA as well.
 
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ace of hearts

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
I can understand if someone is capable of signing a paper and doesn't do it, then that wouldn't be right. But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do? Suffer all because of what one Christian thinks? I personally think denominations ruin Christianity. They all have different beliefs and if you don't listen to one of those beliefs, you're considered not a Christian. For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?
So it is meant by her friends she has to become a ward of the state to be married or have legal sex. It didn't use to be that way. Yes there are or can arise legal issues that come into play if a separation occurs. But those seem to have disappeared with palimony law suits. The way I see life is a marriage license is a tax on sex. A marriage is a religious rite the state now taxes. A marriage license is also the right to enter a business relationship to which there are no rules. That is why many of them fail. Marriage isn't a business for gain. Well it's not supposed to be anyway. But we have things like gold diggers. People marry for money, jobs and uncontrolled passions/gratification, but not for love. The commitment these days is to self.

I've no idea what marriage has to do with disability. What seems to be the case here is the love of money and not the possible future spouse. I think the girl should reconsider the relationship with her boyfriend. It looks like nothing but bondage to me.
 
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A Realist

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ace of hearts

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New York requires a marriage license to be signed by a clergycritter ordained by any religion. Anyone ordained by whatever rules of whatever religion is "licensed" to perform weddings in NY. New York has no specific rule or provisions for who can be ordained or how that person is ordained. The "license" is merely an ID card.
What ever happened to separation of church and state? No a marriage license is bringing the state into the marriage bed. So you also marry the state when you do so under license.
 
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Yarddog

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My friend wants to know if it's a sin to marry without a marriage license. She is planning on marrying her boyfriend but she said all of her Christian friends and family are giving her a hard time about it because her boyfriend can't sign a marriage license or he'll lose his disability check. They pretty much tell her that if she doesn't have a marriage license, she'll be living in sin and will no longer be considered a Christian. But she doesn't believe that. She thinks it's not a sin but her Christian friends will not stop pestering her about it. What are your opinions?
Why would he lose his disability check if he was legally married? He must not be disabled then, but gets a check because his spouse died and children are involved. If so, I would think it would be sin because defrauding the government would be lying.
But if the person legally can't do it and that person is deeply in love, what do they do?
Why would they not be able to legally marry?
For example, The non denominational church believes it's not a sin to drink alcohol and yet the baptists do. Which one is right? Which one is wrong? Who's going to hell and who isn't? It's not right that the baptists get to point fingers at a person for believing differently. Am I right?
Have you read Romans 14? If not, do. You will see how something can be sinful for one denomination and not another.
 
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RDKirk

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What ever happened to separation of church and state? No a marriage license is bringing the state into the marriage bed. So you also marry the state when you do so under license.

That's just silly.

But the rules of the state will apply if you ever want anything regarding your marriage from the state, so you will find yourself answering the question of "separation of church and state."

As long as you never, ever need or want anything regarding your marriage from the state, don't follow their rules and you'll be fine.
 
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