Struggling with christian faith

[grantdenning]

Thanks for the replies everybody. First of all, if I did convert, it wont be because my son has done so, it would be because I no longer believed that the Christian faith was the correct way to worship god. I am not there yet, but I have been looking at all the evidence, & to date the evidence towards jesus being the prophesied messiah of the old testament appears very slim. As I previously stated, I had had my doubts before, due to many things in the new testament not seeming to make sense to me. but always just dismissed them as just that, doubts due to my onw imperfectness. It is not until I began really studying the bible closely with my son, that I realised that many of my doubts appear valid.

Some of you have quoted prophesies about Jesus from the old testament, & that is exactly what I started to do with my son. I had the pamphlet distributed by my church, with a long list of these prophesies. My son was very happy to go through all of these with me, as we both looked them up & studied them in detail. My son wasn't at all surprised, but I was, that as I studied the prophesies in detail, often starting from the start of the chapter the prophesy was contained in, & reading through to the end, so they could be read in the correct context, that many of them simply could NOT be about Jesus at all. Many of them weren't even prophesy. In fact by the time we got to the end of the pamphlet, there was not one prophecy that I had any faith in that it actually was prophesying Jesus.

I took my doubts to my pastor, & asked if he could explain how they were prophesy about Jesus, when read through properly. He couldn't explain, just making the sort of excuses I have heard all of my life through the church, such as you cant question god, & that I am not understanding the passages correctly, even though he could NOT explain how to understand it differently when read in the correct context. At the end I sensed he was quite flustered & embarrassed that he could not come up with any sensible answers. I also felt that I am not welcome back anytime soon to ask more questions about scripture.

I then went with my son to my sons Rabbi, armed with the same questions. The answers he gave were sensible & reasonable. He explained to me that Christian theologians read the bible in a circular fashion. he explained that if you knew absolutely nothing about Jesus, & read the old testament from start to finish, you would not have any concept that Jesus was the messiah when he came, because there is simply nothing in the old testament that describes a Jesus like messiah. He said that the only way to find jesus in the old testament is if you start with the pre-conceived idea that Jesus IS the messiah, then look for passages in the old testament that appear to fit.

He said that "I bet if you wanted to start a new religion based around Donald Trump, I bet you could find Donald Trump as the Messiah in the old testament, if you scour it looking for passages that appear to describe Trump".

SO, it is from reading the bible, both old & new testaments, & questioning both my pastor & my sons Rabbi, that I have come to this point. I don't want to make a wrong decision, so still looking for answers & hoping that somebody can say something where I think "I never thought of that one" that might sway my mind in one direction or the other.

If the old testament is from god, & I believe it is, then how can it be wrong? And if you can read it from front to back, & not know Jesus without reading the new testament 1st, then how can it be prophesy of Jesus? Surely if it is prophesy, you should be able to read the old testament & recognise Jesus in it WITHOUT knowing of the new testament 1st?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am not there yet, but I have been looking at all the evidence, & to date the evidence towards jesus being the prophesied messiah of the old testament appears very slim.

Who you trust ?

Jesus taught the Apostles and showed from TORAH, PSALMS and PROPHETS (the Old Testament)
all through Scripture how the Messiah must suffer..... and all through Scripture He is found , as Yahweh Planned and Breathed Yahweh's Word through the inspired men He Chose.

There are very few sites, you might or might not find one... showing from Genesis through Malachi, all Yahweh's Word, is about Jesus being the Promised Messiah.

As Yahweh Himself Promises, it depends on YOU - IF YOU seek the truth and keep seeking, you will find it, and the truth will set you free (from that other deception, from death, from the power of hasatan) .

Trust Yahweh, not trust religion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Surely if it is prophesy, you should be able to read the old testament & recognise Jesus in it WITHOUT knowing of the new testament 1st?

Those in Jesus' day on earth knew the TORAH , PROPHETS and PSALMS better than anyone on earth today.
They rejected Jesus, not having repented and not having been immersed in His Name.
Those who recognized Jesus as Messiah, had repented and been immersed in Jesus' Name , and been saved to eternal life.
Yahweh opened their minds to understand Scripture. This also is key (necessary).

 

[Not me]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

If you wouldnt mind;

It depends on what your definition of Christianity is. Is it’s a belief in certain facts, or having a personal relationship with Christ?

Hope it helps with your decision.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

Hi I have studied the Bible and am an active Christian apologist on a Torah vs Bible group which features many very intelligent Jews who do a good job challenging you. I have a much better understanding of their arguments and I can probably help you answer some of the questions. Also this may help you to grow to as Eschatology or end of the age and coming of the kingdom are important issues to know. You can message me if you like.

 

[Miss Babbit]

grantdenning

All the proof I gave you didn't come from either the Old or New Testament.

How did Jesus know the inner workings of the human ear before the invention of the microscope?
How are people able to do deliverances in Jesus' name if the Messiah is yet to come?

I work for a Christian missionary. They mission in places where voodoo and black magick are real! The voodoo priests have never seen their magick defeated before and because it failed through Jesus' name the voodoo priests are now Christians! They have had physical proof!

The mission has miracles all the time! In Jesus' name miracles are happening in 2018!!!

Oh yes and there's also been the birth of the red heifer, fish have been found in the Dead Sea and a snake has come out of the Western wall!

Woohoo! Jesus is coming back! It will be the second time for Christians and the first time for the Jews. All unfolding as it has been prophesied! Every knee shall bend!

Turn to the true King! Tomorrow will be too late. Rough estimates is that Tribulation will commence in seven years from now.

There is proof of Jesus' Christ divinity everywhere! You only have to look it is everywhere!
Look at the spiritual fruit it is everywhere!

I have to thank you grantdenning. I came on this site today to feel gloomy about being stuck in this world and now you have fired me up with the love of Jesus Christ again! Thank you so much brother!

The Lord works in mysterious ways! Shalom!

 

[grantdenning]

Those in Jesus' day on earth knew the TORAH , PROPHETS and PSALMS better than anyone on earth today.
They rejected Jesus, not having repented and not having been immersed in His Name.
Those who recognized Jesus as Messiah, had repented and been immersed in Jesus' Name , and been saved to eternal life.
Yahweh opened their minds to understand Scripture. This also is key (necessary).

If the jews living in Jesus day did not see Jesus as the messiah, then why were they wrong? There were a few jews who did, but there movement died out & by 100 CE, it was really only gentiles that believed in any great no.

I also do not understand why Jesus did not prophesy about Paul of Tarsus. After all Jesus said that his followers WERE to follow the Torah, & that not a jot or tittle were to be changed. But paul changed all that, yet Jesus never mentioned anywhere that he would appear to another who would go & preach to the Gentiles. I find that very strange that Jesus wouldn't think to mention it. In fact Jesus seems to warn AGAINST believing somebody like Paul who would preach in his (Jesus) name after he was raised.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="grantdenning, post: 73518594, member: 415029"]If the jews living in Jesus day did not see Jesus as the messiah, then why were they wrong? There were a few jews who did, but there movement died out & by 100 CE, it was really only gentiles that believed in any great no.

I also do not understand why Jesus did not prophesy about Paul of Tarsus. After all Jesus said that his followers WERE to follow the Torah, & that not a jot or tittle were to be changed. But paul changed all that, yet Jesus never mentioned anywhere that he would appear to another who would go & preach to the Gentiles. I find that very strange that Jesus wouldn't think to mention it. In fact Jesus seems to warn AGAINST believing somebody like Paul who would preach in his (Jesus) name after he was raised.[/QUOTE
==================================
First, WHO taught you that about Paul ?

Then we'll get to the first question.

 

[hedrick]

What is your background as far as understanding the New Testament? There's a lot of work on understanding Jesus in the context of 1st Cent Judaism. You might find it useful to look at something like N T Wright's "Simply Jesus." Messiah, in the sense of God's anointed, was true. But messiah is only one of a number of different ways to understand Jesus' role, and not Jesus' preferred term.

There are plenty of connections with what the OT prophets meant by the term, but differences as well. The biggest difference, of course, is that people expected the Messiah to bring the final restoration of Israel. I think they had good reason for this expectation. But Jesus brought something different. Again, I recommend Wright's work to you. (Not that he's perfect, but he's the most accessible representative of current historical Jesus work.)

 

[Albion]

grantdenning,

I don't want to comment on what you should do about these faiths, but I cannot imagine how it would be possible to fault the basis on which Christianity rests without faulting Judaism for the same reason.

 

[buzuxi02]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

If the Jews were right all along then why didn't the messiah come and rescue them in WW2?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

Who you have joined or haven't joined has little to do with how God sees you. Saving faith is not based on intellectual agreement.

Jew or Gentile, the Redeemed were chosen by God, and sooner or later their Regeneration becomes seen clearly as God's work. The truth is, the Messiah either has or has not come, and done or not done as predicted. Your decision on the matter is not what will save you.

Study all you can of what they say. And study all you can of what Christianity teaches. Specifically, look into the prophecies and fulfillments. Then read and understand what regeneration is, and how it fits perfectly the old testament.

The gospel is to be found in the Old Testament. You cannot earn Grace.

God does what he does, and none can gainsay it. God created for his own sake.

Do not separate Grace, Election and Creation.

 

[CodyFaith]

.

 

[Great_Depression]

Thanks for the replies everybody. First of all, if I did convert, it wont be because my son has done so, it would be because I no longer believed that the Christian faith was the correct way to worship god. I am not there yet, but I have been looking at all the evidence, & to date the evidence towards jesus being the prophesied messiah of the old testament appears very slim. As I previously stated, I had had my doubts before, due to many things in the new testament not seeming to make sense to me. but always just dismissed them as just that, doubts due to my onw imperfectness. It is not until I began really studying the bible closely with my son, that I realised that many of my doubts appear valid.

Some of you have quoted prophesies about Jesus from the old testament, & that is exactly what I started to do with my son. I had the pamphlet distributed by my church, with a long list of these prophesies. My son was very happy to go through all of these with me, as we both looked them up & studied them in detail. My son wasn't at all surprised, but I was, that as I studied the prophesies in detail, often starting from the start of the chapter the prophesy was contained in, & reading through to the end, so they could be read in the correct context, that many of them simply could NOT be about Jesus at all. Many of them weren't even prophesy. In fact by the time we got to the end of the pamphlet, there was not one prophecy that I had any faith in that it actually was prophesying Jesus.

I took my doubts to my pastor, & asked if he could explain how they were prophesy about Jesus, when read through properly. He couldn't explain, just making the sort of excuses I have heard all of my life through the church, such as you cant question god, & that I am not understanding the passages correctly, even though he could NOT explain how to understand it differently when read in the correct context. At the end I sensed he was quite flustered & embarrassed that he could not come up with any sensible answers. I also felt that I am not welcome back anytime soon to ask more questions about scripture.

I then went with my son to my sons Rabbi, armed with the same questions. The answers he gave were sensible & reasonable. He explained to me that Christian theologians read the bible in a circular fashion. he explained that if you knew absolutely nothing about Jesus, & read the old testament from start to finish, you would not have any concept that Jesus was the messiah when he came, because there is simply nothing in the old testament that describes a Jesus like messiah. He said that the only way to find jesus in the old testament is if you start with the pre-conceived idea that Jesus IS the messiah, then look for passages in the old testament that appear to fit.

He said that "I bet if you wanted to start a new religion based around Donald Trump, I bet you could find Donald Trump as the Messiah in the old testament, if you scour it looking for passages that appear to describe Trump".

SO, it is from reading the bible, both old & new testaments, & questioning both my pastor & my sons Rabbi, that I have come to this point. I don't want to make a wrong decision, so still looking for answers & hoping that somebody can say something where I think "I never thought of that one" that might sway my mind in one direction or the other.

If the old testament is from god, & I believe it is, then how can it be wrong? And if you can read it from front to back, & not know Jesus without reading the new testament 1st, then how can it be prophesy of Jesus? Surely if it is prophesy, you should be able to read the old testament & recognise Jesus in it WITHOUT knowing of the new testament 1st?

Hello, I have recently been doing some studies on this issue as well and haven't got all the answers yet either. I am not yet wavering in my faith, but would still like to do more research. Maybe we can go through the process together and find some answers.

I went on a Jewish forum about a month ago with some questions and didn't really get any answers which disappointed me.

Was one of the points that your son or the Rabbi makes is that the Messiah would not be born of a virgin birth? I have come across that a lot. I have read jews that say the word "virgin" in the bible is mistranslated and that in hebrew it actually says young girl. The way I got myself past that is that jews today can not just be the rule makers for what words meant thousands of years ago. Sure the word could mean 'young girl' now but 2,000 years ago it could have meant 'virgin'. Words meaning changes. Handsome now days is used to describe a man's looks but just 50-100 years ago it was used to describe many things including womens looks. So imagine 2,000 years from now.

Also remember that all english language bibles are rranslated off copies and not the originals as they do not exist. At least that's what I have read. I do only use KJV or the Geneva as they are 'supposed' to be the most accurate english bible. But since none of us have a time machine to go back thousands of years to read the original bible in hebrew we are just reading a translated copy, even the jews. So taking any modern man's man advice on what a word is or means in hebrew/greek/ or english is tricky ground.

I know another argument jews make against Jesus being the Messiah. Not sure if you have read or heard this. But they set up a premise like this. "If Jesus was born of a virgin, how could he be a descent of David?" Now remember, jews don't believe in a virgin birth, at least as far as I can tell, so it's a a sort of gotcha question. I will say it's a good one because how can a man be a direct descent of a blood line without a father? I am still researching this, but so far all I can habe is faith and just say it's only by God.

I know jews sometimes say that the torah teaches not to follow any Messiah that changes the laws because the true Messiah will not want or try to change any laws. Jesus says "I came not to change the laws but fullfill them." So I think that one is answered, in my opinion.

I am very curious to hear from you. And I mean no disrespect to jews or christians with any of ny questions or comments. I am just very curious about the realationships between jews and christians and would like to understand their side.

Edit: I just went and did some research on how Jesus is a descent of David and now believe I have an understanding of how that works. A quick google search and reading a few web pages. Basically he could have been been a descendant of David through Joseph but since Joseph was descent of Jeconiah that would mean Jesus couldn't have been the Messiah if Joseph would have been his biological father because none of Jeconiah offspring could be the messiah according to Jerimiah.

But Mary was also a descendant of David through Heli. A bloodline can only be passed through the father but jewish heritage can be passed from the mother or the father. So since Mary was a descendant of David, Jesus would have been also.

Also kingship to the throne can be passed by being a descendant or by prophecy, which the messsiah was clearly prophesized about. It was a litttle bit more but that's the jist of it. So Jesus is a descendant of David by two paths according to what I read.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

What are you expecting? Your child to be perfect? Look at the Old Testament. How many of the children of godly men followed the Lord perfectly? Take David. His son Absolom turned out to be a rebel. Solomon ended up worshiping Idols. Eli's two sons broke his heart by greed and fornication.

Only one person in history gave birth to Jesus!

God's got no grandchildern. Your son has to make his own decisions in life and if he decides to depart from Christianity, then there is nothing you can do about it. Even if you had done your best to give him the best Christian upbringing, you cannot transfer your faith to him.

All you can do is to pray for him, but remember that the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much, especially the prayer of a father for his children.

I think that we are being misled by the testimonies of these "holy" and "spiritual" folk who preach on TV and say that all their children have come to Christ and are faithfully serving Him. I don't think that is the norm for every Christian parent.

 

[devin553344]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

Why do you feel Jesus isn't the messiah? Perhaps if you state that. He did raise people from the dead, heal people, turn water into wine, multiplied food, etc.

 

[sea5763]

How do you read Isaiah 53 and not see Jesus in that description? How through His death and suffering many will be made righteous? What about the book of Zechariah? Have you read the entire Old Testament yet? I recommend you read the whole thing first before changing your faith from beginning to end and then see if those prophecies still appear out of context to you. I don’t think they do. Also keep in mind that Jesus hasn’t finished all the prophecies yet because we are still awaiting His second coming!

 

[Neogaia777]

Hi all. I have just turned 58 years old & have been a Christian for most of my life. 2 years ago my son started university, & he had also been raised a Christian. About 6 months ago, he told me that he no longer believed that jesus was the jewish messiah or god, & that he was converting to Judaism. I didn't even realise that you could convert to Judaism (I thought you had to be born a jew). Thinking that my son must be mistaken in his belief, & believing I could change his mind, I asked my son if we could do some bible study together every week, where he could explain his belief, & I could through the scriptures prove that jesus WAS indeed the messiah, & son of god.

Well things haven't gone as planned, because instead of my being able to prove my point, I have not really been able to fault my sons logic & belief in the reading & understanding of the scriptures, in both the old & new testament. I guess that deep down I always had my doubts about many things in the new testament scripture, but always dismissed my own doubts as negativity creeping in through satans work.

I now am doubting Jesus as the messiah, & beginning to think that the jews have been right all along. I have talked to my own church pastor about some of the issues with the reading of the bible, however he cannot give any satisfactory answers, whereas if I talk to my sons Rabbi, it all suddenly makes sense. I just feel stuck at the moment, not knowing which way to turn. Do I continue as a Christian, where I have felt safe all my life, but now doubt its validity, or do I follow my son & convert to Judaism?

Tell Him about Jesus being the scapegoat, the one who was cursed for us, ect... About the Law and the OC's real and true purpose to point our need for Christ or a scapegoat, ect, and that He proved He was God, by his also being our Savior, ect... That people need to be saved from Law and Judaism, that Judaism is Law, and the OC, ect... That they need to saved from, ect...

Praying...

God Bless!

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[grantdenning]

Look at the prophesied timing of the coming of the Messiah in Daniel 9. He would be here before the time of Titus destroying the city and the sanctuary.

7 weeks
62 weeks
Messiah was cut off
then there was the time of a determined war that would desolate the city

This prophesy has already been explained to me by the Rabbi. I wont go into all of the detail here, however Christians lump together 7 weeks & 62 weeks to come up with 69 weeks, however it has been explained to me that this is an incorrect interpretation, because 7 weeks is one period when & event will happen, & then after that event has passed, then the 62 weeks will start. the Rabbi explained that nowhere else in the old testament will a no. be expressed as 7 weeks & 62 weeks meaning 69 weeks. The correct interpretation is 7 weeks of years, then a further 62 weeks of years beginning after the 1st event has finished. Even if the Christian interpretation is accepted, the date of Jesus death comes out as 39 ce, which is aprox 7 years AFTER Jesus was crucified anyway.