Rev 11- 1st 3.5 years of Final 7 not a time of peace, after all?

Douggg

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Can you not understand the Olde English KJV brother....I know its hard but it's not that hard. Woe, woe, woe......BY REASON.......of the other THREE TRUMPETS........Which are yet to sound.
I understand the text. What I am correcting you on - is your statement that the last three trumpets are woes.

I am pointing out to you that the trumpets, in and of themselves, are not woes - but announce the arrival of those woes.

Just as trumpet sounding in this video is not the king but announces the entrance of the king.

_______________________________________________________________________

 
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Revealing Times

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So in your logic, you think when the beast does kill the two witnesses he is obeying God to do so, then?

The beast is not able to kill the two witnesses before their 1260 days end. He is not doing so out of obedience to God. He simply will be unable to.

Apollyon kills the Two-witnesses after 1260 days. Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast. Of course they have to obey God or they know God will chain them in the bottomless pit. God protects them for 1260 days and then when their Ministry over they are killed, so unless one has ZERO LOGIC, you have assume God was protecting them else Satan, the Anti-Christ Apollyon or the men of earth would have tried to kill them before they have brought all these plagues down !! That just simple logic brother. The Prince of Persia who I think is Apollyon, resisted Michael for 21 days

I understand the text. What I am correcting you on - is your statement that the last three trumpets are woes.
You can't correct me on it because it's a fact, one of these days, here on earth are in Heaven you wil learn that Rev. 12 is not a part of the Chronological Order nor is it a Woe.

I am pointing out to you that the trumpets, in and of themselves, are not woes - but announce the arrival of those woes.

Just as trumpet sounding in this video is not the king but announces the entrance of the king.

When all three Trumpets Sound the Woes arrive. Satan is cast out at the Midway point thus he chases the Woman (Israel) into the Wilderness for 1260 days.

The LAST Woe is the 7 Vials which comes just after the 2nd Woe. Until you understand that the Chronological Order goes from Seak, to Trumpet, to Woes in which the last Woe is all 7 Vials you will be in the dark as per the timing.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I've heard it claimed that the 1st 3.5 years of the 7 before the Battle of Armageddon will be a time of peace. But is Revelation 11 telling us the opposite?

Revelation 11 begins with a 42 months (= 3.5 years) during which the Holy City, Jerusalem, will be trampled over by the nations. It then mentions a 1260 days (= 3.5 years) for which 2 Witnesses will prophesy. Then it tells us that they will be killed, after which their bodies will be left in the streets for 3.5 days. It then tells us that, after the 3.5 days, they will be resurrected, and taken up to heaven in a cloud (could this be the same one in which the elect of Matt 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:17 are gathered?), and that at that moment there will be a great earthquake. Then Rev 11:14-15 tell us that shortly after that, the 7th trumpet is blown and voices in heaven declare that 'the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Messiah, and that He will reign forever'.

Since Revelation 20:4 tells us that the Millennium will be a time when Jesus will reign, I think the voices in Rev 11:15 with their declaration that the Messiah will reign forever, could be announcing the beginning of the Millennium, which incidentally I think Zechariah 14 enables us to work out, will begin on the day of the Battle of Armageddon.

Since the declaration will be made only shortly after the earthquake and the resurrection of the 2 Witnesses, this places those events close to, if not on the actual day of, the Battle of Armageddon.

I think, like Daniel's 70th Week, where a day is equivalent to a year, the 3.5 days that precede the 2 Witnesses resurrection, is equivalent to 3.5 years, which means since they end with the 2 Witnesses resurrection that they represent the Final 3.5 Years of the 7, which means that I think the 1260 days for which they prophesy will cover the 1st 3.5 Years of the Final 7 Years before the Battle of Armageddon.

Now, Rev 11:5-6 tell us that the 2 Witnesses will have the ability to breathe fire, cause droughts, turn water into blood and strike the earth with every kind of plague. Now, no doubt one reason these powers are listed are to help us deduce that the 2 Witnesses are Moses and Elijah or two Christian groups representative of them. However, that may not be the only reason: it's possible that they are also listed to indicate that the 2 Witnesses will have cause to use these powers during their 1260 days of prophesying, to defend God's people and to inflict harm on any forces attacking God's people. And it's possible that the scale of the damage that can be caused by these powers may be an indication of how intense the attack on God's people will be.

So, I think, contrary to the claim that the 1st 3.5 years of the 7 may be a time of peace, Revelation 11 could be indicating that the 1st 3.5 years could be a time when intense war is being waged by the nations on God's people in Jerusalem, a view supported by what the phrase 'the harlot (of Babylon) being drunk on the blood of the saints' from Rev 17:6 implies, and by what the phrase 'Holy City being trampled over by the nations' from Rev 11:1-2 may mean (I think the 42 months for which the Holy City is trampled over may also cover the 1st 3.5 years of the 7).
Maybe you should look into alternative eschatological views before you put much more time into this subject. You have only been subjected to dispensational theology and there are other alternatives to end time scenarios.
Blessings
 
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Douggg

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You can't correct me on it because it's a fact, one of these days, here on earth are in Heaven you wil learn that Rev. 12 is not a part of the Chronological Order nor is it a Woe.
It says woe to the inhabitiers of the earth right in the text of Revelation 12.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
 
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Julian King

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It mentions them as laying in the streets for 3.5 days because their Ministry was 3.5 years (1260 days) so the Wicked of the world rejoice for 3.5 days, just like the fake peace had them deceived for 3.5 years, it's nothing but symmetry by God. Then just like the 3.5 years of fake peace, the Two-witnesses will rise up to Heaven, just before the 3rd Woe (7th Trumpet sounds) befalls the wicked.

You see, there can't be 1260 days from the 2nd Woe (6th Trumpet) to the 3rd Woe (7th Trumpet) which ends with the 7th Vial. The First Seal starts in the Middle of the week, so out of 2520 days of the 7 year tribulation period (70th week) there is thus only 1260 days left starting with the First Seal being opened !! We thus have the 7 Seals, the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials, the last being the 7th Trumpet all wrapped into one or the 3rd Woe. So how do we get all of this and still have 1260 days left when the 2nd Woe comes ? We only had 1260 days left when the First Seal was opened !

We must fit it together in the proper time frame, I have been telling Douggg this for 2 years and he still doesn't see it, so no worries, just study, and seek the truth, God will reveal it at His own time brother. OH....By the way, welcome to the forum, I did not see it was your first post. Greetings from the USA my fellow Christian Brit. Godspeed.

There is no 2300 days, the Hebrew has 2 Words behind DAYS, one means Mornings and the other means Evenings. So it's 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations or prayers. See Daniel 9:21, Gabriel came unto Daniel at the evening Oblation (prayer time/a tribute unto God). As a matter of fact the EXACT SAME TWO WORD(S) are used at the end of the chapter, and the translation is translated the Prophecy of the Evening and Morning (LOL at the English translators) WATCH:

(KJV) Dan. 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning(Same words as verse 14) which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

From my Hebrew Massoretic Bible: Below.

Dan 8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 1242 then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

Dan 8:26 And the vision 4758 of the evening 6153 and the morning 1242 which x834 was told 559 z8738 [is] true: 571 wherefore shut thou up 5640 z8798 x859 the vision; 2377 for x3588 it [shall be] for many 7227 days. 3117

Notice how verse 26 speaks of it as the VISION of the Evening and Morning but verse 14 calls it 2300 days instead of 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations ?

It is 1150 Days or 2300 Evening and Morning Oblations/Tributes to God/Prayers unto God that are missed. So it is not 2300 days brother, thus it fits with the Beasts 1260 days in which he rules, which is a requirement, of course.
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As per the 1260, 1290 and 1335, think each represents a "SET NUMBER OF DAYS" until the Second Coming of Jesus.

The 1260 is thus 1260 days until all of these wonders end with Jesus' Second Coming. The 1290 happens thus before the 1260, it is the AoD and is the sign to the repented Jews that they need to Flee Judea, God gives them a sign just before the Beast takes over, the False Prophet (A High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus Epiphanes) orders an Image of the E.U. President to be placed in the Temple of God. Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews, this guy will try to make the Jews worship a man !! Jason had his own brother, a pious High Priest named Onias III killed by bribing Antiochus.

So the 1290 comes before the 1260, because it is 1290 days from the Second Coming which ends all of these Wonders. Therefore the 1335 is some sort of blessing that comes 1335 days before the Second Coming ends all of the Wonders, so what can it be ? Well Malachi 4:5-6 says that Elijah is sent back to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. So that is the blessing IMHO.

1335 Days before the Second Coming, the Two-witnesses show up, blessing Israel.

1290 Days before the Second Coming the False Prophet places an Image/Idol in the Temple.

1260 Days before the Second Coming the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem to become the Beast.
Hi revealing times.

On what day in the 7 years do the 2300/1150 days start, and what event marks the start of the 2300 days?
 
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Julian King

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The timeframes given, all denote a major milestone event that takes place.

Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant
Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world

1290 days counting from when the AoD is placed in the temple - the events of the sixth seal take place. The heavens part and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God, prepared to carry out revenge for them martyred during the great tribulation.

It will send terror into the hearts of the wicked in the world.

So Day 1185 + 1290 days = Day 2475 on the timeline. Which the kings of the earth then have 45 days to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus.
______________________________________________________________________

The 2300 days in Daniel 8, are the timeframe from when the animal sacrifices begin again, stopped, the worship of the one True God stopped in the temple, until Jesus returns.

So 2520 days (the length of the 7 years) - 2300 = Day 220 that the animal sacrifices will begin again. Included on the timeline, it looks like this.

Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant.
Day 220 - the animal sacrifices started again. (2300 days before Jesus returns).
Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world
Day 2475 - the world sees Jesus before the throne of God. (Day 1185 + 1290 days).
Day 2520 - Jesus descends to earth and executes judgement on them gathered to make war on him.
Hi Douggg

You have sacrifices resuming on Day 220, at the start of the 2300 Days, whereas Daniel 8:11-14 only talk about sacrifices being taken away. So, I think it's sacrifices ceasing that will mark the start of the 2300 Days.

Also, I think Daniel 11:11 is telling us that sacrifices ceasing will mark the start of the 1290 Days, which suggests that both the 2300 Days and the 1290 Days will start on the same day- Day 220 of the 7 years.

And if this would have the Desolating Abomination being set up too early in your scenario, then I think Daniel 12:11 allows for it to be set up during, or at the end of, the 1290 Days.

What do you think?
 
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Revealing Times

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It says woe to the inhabitiers of the earth right in the text of Revelation 12.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
But it IS NOT a Woe..............Satan is cast down at about the halfway point...............and you bend all of your Eschatology to fit, when all you have to do is follow the Three Trumpets when they Sound.

Satan is cast out at the Midway point, the 6th Trumpet blows near the end of Tribulation, followed by the 7th Trumpet. We can't be right until we learn to admit we are wrong on things....WHO CARES anyway, God is the teacher right ?
 
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Revealing Times

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Hi revealing times.

On what day in the 7 years do the 2300/1150 days start, and what event marks the start of the 2300 days?
I assume it starts somewhere around the Midway point when the Beast takes over. The False Prophets seems to place in Image in the Temple 30 days before the Beast conquers Israel. The point is it is defiled for 1150 days. So whatever day it starts on it will end in 1150 days. It will not start until the Beast takes over or just before the Beast takes over via the False Prophet (Probably a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason).
 
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Douggg

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Hi Douggg

You have sacrifices resuming on Day 220, at the start of the 2300 Days, whereas Daniel 8:11-14 only talk about sacrifices being taken away. So, I think it's sacrifices ceasing that will mark the start of the 2300 Days.

Also, I think Daniel 11:11 is telling us that sacrifices ceasing will mark the start of the 1290 Days, which suggests that both the 2300 Days and the 1290 Days will start on the same day- Day 220 of the 7 years.

And if this would have the Desolating Abomination being set up too early in your scenario, then I think Daniel 12:11 allows for it to be set up during, or at the end of, the 1290 Days.

What do you think?
Julian, I don't think I understand what you are suggesting, because I don't understand what ends the 1290 days in your suggestion. Put it in this sort of form, so I can understand.

Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant.
Day 220 - the animal sacrifices started again. (2300 days before Jesus returns).
Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world
Day 2475 - the world sees Jesus before the throne of God. (Day 1185 + 1290 days).
Day 2520 - Jesus descends to earth and executes judgement on them gathered to make war on him.

________________________________________________________________________________

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Julian, it is not talking just about the stopping of the daily sacrifice, but also a transgression. The transgression is what makes the temple desolate (another way of saying no praise and worship of the One True God during that time. Until it is cleansed of what makes the temple desolate.)

So there has to be the resumption of the daily sacrifice since it hasn't been done for 2000 years. Then at some point stopped by the little horn person. And then the little horn person does something that is a transgression, lasting until Jesus returns.

All of those activities combined will span the 2300 days.

____________________________________________________________________________

There are some choices of what causes the desolation. One is the abomination of desolation, that in Daniel 12:11 will be "setup". That doesn't sound like a human being to me, but an object. So I take the abomination of desolation to be the image the false prophet has made of the person.

Differently, in 2Thessalonians2:4, the person goes into the temple, sits, making his claim to be God.

So that is the "transgression" of desolation. But transgression against what? Transgressing the covenant he confirmed for 7 years earlier; which, intrinsic to that covenant is to worship the One True God only.

In Daniel 9, Daniel was lamenting over his ancestors had "transgressed" the Mt.
Sinai covenant.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

The point being is that the transgression of desolation is different from the abomination of desolation.

_________________________________________________________________________________

The 1290 day and the 1335 days - are associated with the abomination of desolation, the image made
The 2300 days - is associated with the transgression of desolation, an act by the person.
 
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Julian King

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Julian, I don't think I understand what you are suggesting, because I don't understand what ends the 1290 days in your suggestion. Put it in this sort of form, so I can understand.

Day 1 - the confirmation of the covenant.
Day 220 - the animal sacrifices started again. (2300 days before Jesus returns).
Day 1185 - the AoD image placed in the temple, the Jews begin to flee.
Day 1260 - the two witnesses are killed.
Day 1263.5 - the two witnesses ascend, leaving this world
Day 2475 - the world sees Jesus before the throne of God. (Day 1185 + 1290 days).
Day 2520 - Jesus descends to earth and executes judgement on them gathered to make war on him.

________________________________________________________________________________

12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Julian, it is not talking just about the stopping of the daily sacrifice, but also a transgression. The transgression is what makes the temple desolate (another way of saying no praise and worship of the One True God during that time. Until it is cleansed of what makes the temple desolate.)

So there has to be the resumption of the daily sacrifice since it hasn't been done for 2000 years. Then at some point stopped by the little horn person. And then the little horn person does something that is a transgression, lasting until Jesus returns.

All of those activities combined will span the 2300 days.

____________________________________________________________________________

There are some choices of what causes the desolation. One is the abomination of desolation, that in Daniel 12:11 will be "setup". That doesn't sound like a human being to me, but an object. So I take the abomination of desolation to be the image the false prophet has made of the person.

Differently, in 2Thessalonians2:4, the person goes into the temple, sits, making his claim to be God.

So that is the "transgression" of desolation. But transgression against what? Transgressing the covenant he confirmed for 7 years earlier; which, intrinsic to that covenant is to worship the One True God only.

In Daniel 9, Daniel was lamenting over his ancestors had "transgressed" the Mt.
Sinai covenant.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

The point being is that the transgression of desolation is different from the abomination of desolation.

_________________________________________________________________________________

The 1290 day and the 1335 days - are associated with the abomination of desolation, the image made
The 2300 days - is associated with the transgression of desolation, an act by the person.
Ok, so, since Daniel 8:9-14 doesn't speak about sacrifices resuming, but only about them ceasing, I assume that they will resume before the 2300 days start- which means I'm also assuming that the main temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt before the 2300 days start, so that sacrifices can resume in that temple before the 2300 days start.

And I think it's possible that by referring to evenings and mornings in verse 14, Daniel may be hinting that of the 4 events mentioned in verse 13, it's sacrifices ceasing that will mark the start of the 2300 days on Day 220.

Which means since I think Daniel 12:11 is telling us that the 1290 Days will start with burnt-offerings ceasing, that I think the 1290 Days will also start on Day 220.

Which means that I think the 1290 Days end on Day 1510. And I think that the setting up of the Desolating Abomination, mentioned in Daniel 12:11, will be the event to mark the end of the 1290 Days. (I know you have the A of D set up on Day 1185, 75 days before the Beasts 42 months of authority begin, but I see no reason why the events of Revelation 13 are not listed chronologically, which would mean that the image of the beast is made, and hence set up, after the beast's 42 months have begun, and hence after Day 1260.)

I also think Daniel 12:11-12 read as though the 1335 days will start on the same day as the 1290 days, which means that they too would start on Day 220, and hence finish on Day 1555 when 'those that persevere reach a place where they can be happy'. And since Jesus in Matt 24:15-16 tells 'those in Judea to flee to the mountains when the A of D is set up', I think it's possible that 'those that persevere' in Daniel 12:12, could be those that fled to the mountains when the A of D was set up 45 days earlier on Day 1510.

And 'the place that makes those that persevere happy' on Day 1555- well, I think it's possible this could be Revelation 12:14's place of nourishment that both you and I think will be available from Day 1260 to Day 2520.

What do you think?
 
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Revealing Times

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Although it says in the text it is a woe?
It doesn't say it's one of the Woes.....you try to pigeonhole God's vocabulary where we can't have woe's to the inhabitants of earth without it being a Woe that kicks off via the Three Trumpets. He is cast down at the Midway mark, there will be THREE WOES COMING LATER ON !! GET IT ? But they don't start sounding unto the 5th Trumpet, not at the First Seal which is what Rev. 12 is showing, he chases the Woman (Israel) who needs protection 1260 days. Instead of following these leads you choose a timeline that is not even possible.
 
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Douggg

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And I think it's possible that by referring to evenings and mornings in verse 14, Daniel may be hinting that of the 4 events mentioned in verse 13, it's sacrifices ceasing that will mark the start of the 2300 days on Day 220.

Julian, I highlighted part of your text.

I think that it is a non fit to have the sacrifices ceasing on Day 220. Because in Daniel 9:27, it is in the midst of the week that the sacrifices are stopped.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


In the middle part of the week (the 7 years):
The sacrifices stopped.
The transgression of desolation act (2Thessalonians2:4).
The abomination of desolation image placed in the temple.
The two witnesses killed, and brought back to life.
The war in (the second) heaven and Satan cast down to earth.

The beginning of the week (the 7 years)

Follows right after Gog/Magog.
The prince who shall come confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle required my Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.:
 
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Douggg

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It doesn't say it's one of the Woes.....you try to pigeonhole God's vocabulary where we can't have woe's to the inhabitants of earth without it being a Woe that kicks off via the Three Trumpets. He is cast down at the Midway mark, there will be THREE WOES COMING LATER ON !! GET IT ? But they don't start sounding unto the 5th Trumpet, not at the First Seal which is what Rev. 12 is showing, he chases the Woman (Israel) who needs protection 1260 days. Instead of following these leads you choose a timeline that is not even possible.
The 7th trumpet is like the 7th seal. It is not at the end of the 7 years.

The sounding of the 7th trumpet is the signal for Michael and his angels to cast Satan down to earth - in the middle part of the 7 years. The other trumpets judgment come after the 7th trumpet has sounded.
 
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Julian King

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Julian, I highlighted part of your text.

I think that it is a non fit to have the sacrifices ceasing on Day 220. Because in Daniel 9:27, it is in the midst of the week that the sacrifices are stopped.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


In the middle part of the week (the 7 years):
The sacrifices stopped.
The transgression of desolation act (2Thessalonians2:4).
The abomination of desolation image placed in the temple.
The two witnesses killed, and brought back to life.
The war in (the second) heaven and Satan cast down to earth.

The beginning of the week (the 7 years)

Follows right after Gog/Magog.
The prince who shall come confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle required my Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.:
Hi Douggg

The Hebrew word Chetsiy, which some translations of Daniel 9:27 translate as 'middle' can also be translated as'half', which means that instead of Daniel 9:27 being translated as 'offerings cease in the middle of the week', it can also be translated as 'offerings cease for half (1260 days) of the week', which means under this translation that the offerings can cease at anytime in the first 3.5 years. Which allows me to have them ceasing on Day 220 as the event that will amrk the start of the 2300 Days.

So, briefly I have placed the Daniel time periods in the 7 years as follows:

Day 1- beginning of Daniel's 70th week, when the devil/desolator makes a strong covenant with many.

Day 220- offerings cease marking the beginning of the 2300 Days, the 1290 Days, the 1335 Days, and also the half of the week (1260 days) for which offerings cease in Daniel's 70th Week.

Day 1480- offerings resume 1260 days after they ceased- if Chetsiy in Daniel 9:27 should be translated as 'half', it would mean that offerings will resume 1260 days after they cease, maybe as an act of worship to the Beast of Revelation 13 (Rev 13 tells us several times that he will be worshipped)

Day 1510- Desolating abomination set up, marking end of the 1290 Days- those in Judea flee to mountains at this time as advised by Jesus in Matt 24:15-16;

Day 1555- 1335 Days ends when those that persevere are made happy/blessed- this could represent when those Judeans that fled to the mountains 45 days earlier reach Rev 12's place of nourishment, which I think will be available for the whole of the Final 3.5 Years of the 7. And the reason that they may feel so happy/blessed could be that this could be the time of the 'Mark of the Beast' period (I think Rev 13 reads as though this will period will begin during the Beast's 42 months of authority) when those who do not carry the 'Mark', which I think will include the fleeing Judeans, will be unable to buy and sell, which means that they will need God to provide for them at this time- and I think Rev 12's place of nourishment is indeed telling us that he will provide for the Jewish people (who I think the Woman of Rev 12 symbolises) during this time.

Day 2520- end of the 2300 Days, when the 'sanctuary is restored to its rightful state'. And the end of Daniel's 70th Week when the Desolator (Beast) meets his end when he is cast into the lake of fire.

What do you think?
 
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Douggg

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So, briefly I have placed the Daniel time periods in the 7 years as follows:

Day 1- beginning of Daniel's 70th week, when the devil/desolator makes a strong covenant with many.

Day 220- offerings cease marking the beginning of the 2300 Days, the 1290 Days, the 1335 Days, and also the half of the week (1260 days) for which offerings cease in Daniel's 70th Week.

Day 1480- offerings resume 1260 days after they ceased- if Chetsiy in Daniel 9:27 should be translated as 'half', it would mean that offerings will resume 1260 days after they cease, maybe as an act of worship to the Beast of Revelation 13 (Rev 13 tells us several times that he will be worshipped)

Day 1510- Desolating abomination set up, marking end of the 1290 Days- those in Judea flee to mountains at this time as advised by Jesus in Matt 24:15-16;

Day 1555- 1335 Days ends when those that persevere are made happy/blessed- this could represent when those Judeans that fled to the mountains 45 days earlier reach Rev 12's place of nourishment, which I think will be available for the whole of the Final 3.5 Years of the 7. And the reason that they may feel so happy/blessed could be that this could be the time of the 'Mark of the Beast' period (I think Rev 13 reads as though this will period will begin during the Beast's 42 months of authority) when those who do not carry the 'Mark', which I think will include the fleeing Judeans, will be unable to buy and sell, which means that they will need God to provide for them at this time- and I think Rev 12's place of nourishment is indeed telling us that he will provide for the Jewish people (who I think the Woman of Rev 12 symbolises) during this time.

Day 2520- end of the 2300 Days, when the 'sanctuary is restored to its rightful state'. And the end of Daniel's 70th Week when the Desolator (Beast) meets his end when he is cast into the lake of fire.

What do you think?
Julian, first let me say you did a good job on putting your thoughts on the 7 year presentation by Day, citing the beginning of the time period and the end with explanations concerning your rationale. :oldthumbsup:

It makes it lot easier for others to fathom and discuss your ideas, and for you yourself to reason things out (imo).

_________________________________________________________________________________

You have the sacrifices stopped on Day 220 and resumed 1260 days later on Day 1480.

However, I am not seeing the 1260 days being used that way. The 1260 days would be the exact middle of the 7 years. And in Revelation, the 1260 days passages do not mention any restarting of sacrifices, but to the end of the two witnesses' testimony time (Revelation 11:3) and the Jews being fed the word of God and fleeing to the wilderness in Revelation 12:6.

________________________________________________________________________________

"Day 1510- Desolating abomination set up, marking end of the 1290 Days- those in Judea flee to mountains at this time as advised by Jesus in Matt 24:15-16;"

Julian, the abomination of desolation setup is what cause the Jews to flee, agreed. But if we look at Revelation 12:6, they have already fled into the wilderness by the 1260 day point. So the Day 1510 would not be a fit of when the abomination of desolation is setup.

The aod will have to be setup before day 1260. I think on day 1185, 1335 days before Jesus returns.
_______________________________________________________________________________

"Day 1555- 1335 Days ends when those that persevere are made happy/blessed- this could represent when those Judeans that fled to the mountains 45 days earlier reach Rev 12's place of nourishment, which I think will be available for the whole of the Final 3.5 Years of the 7. And the reason that they may feel so happy/blessed could be that this could be the time of the 'Mark of the Beast' period"

Julian, if you were in that situation, would you be happy that you could not dare leave the mountains and go back to your home. Or would you be happy if the 1335 day landed on the day Jesus returns, and He destroys the beast, false prophet, and the armies in you country, - seeking to enslave or kill you ?

I think the blessing is to them who remain faithful to the day Jesus returns. So I put the 1335th day as being the day Jesus returns.
 
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iamlamad

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I've heard it claimed that the 1st 3.5 years of the 7 before the Battle of Armageddon will be a time of peace. But is Revelation 11 telling us the opposite?

Revelation 11 begins with a 42 months (= 3.5 years) during which the Holy City, Jerusalem, will be trampled over by the nations. It then mentions a 1260 days (= 3.5 years) for which 2 Witnesses will prophesy. Then it tells us that they will be killed, after which their bodies will be left in the streets for 3.5 days. It then tells us that, after the 3.5 days, they will be resurrected, and taken up to heaven in a cloud (could this be the same one in which the elect of Matt 24:31 and 1 Thess 4:17 are gathered?), and that at that moment there will be a great earthquake. Then Rev 11:14-15 tell us that shortly after that, the 7th trumpet is blown and voices in heaven declare that 'the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Messiah, and that He will reign forever'.

Since Revelation 20:4 tells us that the Millennium will be a time when Jesus will reign, I think the voices in Rev 11:15 with their declaration that the Messiah will reign forever, could be announcing the beginning of the Millennium, which incidentally I think Zechariah 14 enables us to work out, will begin on the day of the Battle of Armageddon.

Since the declaration will be made only shortly after the earthquake and the resurrection of the 2 Witnesses, this places those events close to, if not on the actual day of, the Battle of Armageddon.

I think, like Daniel's 70th Week, where a day is equivalent to a year, the 3.5 days that precede the 2 Witnesses resurrection, is equivalent to 3.5 years, which means since they end with the 2 Witnesses resurrection that they represent the Final 3.5 Years of the 7, which means that I think the 1260 days for which they prophesy will cover the 1st 3.5 Years of the Final 7 Years before the Battle of Armageddon.

Now, Rev 11:5-6 tell us that the 2 Witnesses will have the ability to breathe fire, cause droughts, turn water into blood and strike the earth with every kind of plague. Now, no doubt one reason these powers are listed are to help us deduce that the 2 Witnesses are Moses and Elijah or two Christian groups representative of them. However, that may not be the only reason: it's possible that they are also listed to indicate that the 2 Witnesses will have cause to use these powers during their 1260 days of prophesying, to defend God's people and to inflict harm on any forces attacking God's people. And it's possible that the scale of the damage that can be caused by these powers may be an indication of how intense the attack on God's people will be.

So, I think, contrary to the claim that the 1st 3.5 years of the 7 may be a time of peace, Revelation 11 could be indicating that the 1st 3.5 years could be a time when intense war is being waged by the nations on God's people in Jerusalem, a view supported by what the phrase 'the harlot (of Babylon) being drunk on the blood of the saints' from Rev 17:6 implies, and by what the phrase 'Holy City being trampled over by the nations' from Rev 11:1-2 may mean (I think the 42 months for which the Holy City is trampled over may also cover the 1st 3.5 years of the 7).
The 7th seal opens the 70th week, while the 7th vial ends it. the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.

The first 6 trumpets sound in the first half of the week, with the 7th marking the midpoint.

The two witnesses will begin their testimony just 3.5 days before the midpoint, testify for 1260 days, which will take them to 3.5 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. Verses 11:4-13 are written as a parenthesis with no bearing on chronology.

In fact, the earthquake when the two witnesses rise is the very same earthquake at the 7th vial. It is the time all the Old Testament saints rise - on the "last day."

I suspect the man of sin will be taking out the three (of ten) nations during the first half of the week. John does not tell us when. It will certainly not be a picnic with the trumpet judgments coming. Good job!
 
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iamlamad

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Hi Douggg

The Hebrew word Chetsiy, which some translations of Daniel 9:27 translate as 'middle' can also be translated as'half', which means that instead of Daniel 9:27 being translated as 'offerings cease in the middle of the week', it can also be translated as 'offerings cease for half (1260 days) of the week', which means under this translation that the offerings can cease at anytime in the first 3.5 years. Which allows me to have them ceasing on Day 220 as the event that will amrk the start of the 2300 Days.

So, briefly I have placed the Daniel time periods in the 7 years as follows:

Day 1- beginning of Daniel's 70th week, when the devil/desolator makes a strong covenant with many.

Day 220- offerings cease marking the beginning of the 2300 Days, the 1290 Days, the 1335 Days, and also the half of the week (1260 days) for which offerings cease in Daniel's 70th Week.

Day 1480- offerings resume 1260 days after they ceased- if Chetsiy in Daniel 9:27 should be translated as 'half', it would mean that offerings will resume 1260 days after they cease, maybe as an act of worship to the Beast of Revelation 13 (Rev 13 tells us several times that he will be worshipped)

Day 1510- Desolating abomination set up, marking end of the 1290 Days- those in Judea flee to mountains at this time as advised by Jesus in Matt 24:15-16;

Day 1555- 1335 Days ends when those that persevere are made happy/blessed- this could represent when those Judeans that fled to the mountains 45 days earlier reach Rev 12's place of nourishment, which I think will be available for the whole of the Final 3.5 Years of the 7. And the reason that they may feel so happy/blessed could be that this could be the time of the 'Mark of the Beast' period (I think Rev 13 reads as though this will period will begin during the Beast's 42 months of authority) when those who do not carry the 'Mark', which I think will include the fleeing Judeans, will be unable to buy and sell, which means that they will need God to provide for them at this time- and I think Rev 12's place of nourishment is indeed telling us that he will provide for the Jewish people (who I think the Woman of Rev 12 symbolises) during this time.

Day 2520- end of the 2300 Days, when the 'sanctuary is restored to its rightful state'. And the end of Daniel's 70th Week when the Desolator (Beast) meets his end when he is cast into the lake of fire.

What do you think?
I think it is mostly myth. The 2300 days were back in Antiochus' day.
The 1290 just extends the 1260 of the last half for another 30 days.
The 1335 extends that 1290 for another 45 days.

What could happen on the 1290th day? It could be Jesus return when He captures the Beast and False prophet. The 1335th day could be the start of the Millennial reign. We can only guess because John did not tell us.
 
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iamlamad

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Interesting, I hadn't thought of Revelation 12's woman being nourished for 2 periods in the wilderness. Nor had I thought of the 42 months and 1260 days of Rev 11 as occurring in the opposite order to the one in which they are presented.
Don't think of them. Douggg is in error. All five mentions of the 3 1/2 year period of time are for the last half of the week. The last half of the week begins at the 7th trumpet that divides the week. Notice that those that flee, 12:6, flee because they have just seen the abomination - the man of sin enter the temple and declare he is God.

Just read it exactly in the order John wrote. But notice that 11:4 through 11:13 are a parenthesis. 11:1-2 is just before the midpoint, verse 3 is 3 1/2 days before the midpoint, and the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.
 
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The 7th seal opens the 70th week, while the 7th vial ends it. the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.

The first 6 trumpets sound in the first half of the week, with the 7th marking the midpoint.

The two witnesses will begin their testimony just 3.5 days before the midpoint, testify for 1260 days, which will take them to 3.5 days before the 7th vial that ends the week. Verses 11:4-13 are written as a parenthesis with no bearing on chronology.

In fact, the earthquake when the two witnesses rise is the very same earthquake at the 7th vial. It is the time all the Old Testament saints rise - on the "last day."

I suspect the man of sin will be taking out the three (of ten) nations during the first half of the week. John does not tell us when. It will certainly not be a picnic with the trumpet judgments coming. Good job!
lamad, put your thoughts on a by Day form like Julian did in his post #55. And I did on my post #49.
 
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