JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Status
Not open for further replies.

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Why? you dismiss the words of Luke "The law and the prophets were until John..."

I'd really love to see you explain how that is misrepresentation or twisting Luke's words.

Been there and done that already showing you the context you left out that did not agree with your interpretation of Luke 16:16. You did not even respond to the post and the scriptures in them that disagreed with you and are now only simply repeating yourself without addressing the posts and the scriptures from God's WORD that disagree with your interpretation of it.

Please feel free to address the post and scriptures to you that disagreed with you earlier. Let me know brother when you have some scriptures to share brother. Until then all I am hearing are your words over God's. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I agree. Jesus is the Word of God. While I agree we can find God's will through what is written in the Bible. I, also, think we can broaden our way of thinking to hear God speak to us in many different ways. I think God is bigger than just what is written in the Bible, and as you mentioned, He is LIVING; therefore, He can still communicate and teach us TODAY, if only we were still enough to hear that still small voice in our conscience, and open enough to hear what we don't want to hear. Food for thought... Why is it that God always introduced himself by saying, "Fear Not"?
Just to be clear, I believe the Bible and what is written, but I think sometimes we try to put God in parameters, when He is much bigger than that. Also, anything I believe MUST line up with the cornerstone (i.e., Jesus). If I build any of my beliefs apart from what Jesus taught when He came into this world to share God's will for us, then I am, as Jesus said, building my house on sand, rather than the ROCK of His teachings; as explained through the four gospels of Jesus' 3 year ministry.

In peace

Hi brother UnprofitableServant,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. In your view if we have the written Word and something as you say is guiding us outside of God's WORD that contradicts God's WORD is it from God? While I believe God can use many ways to teach and guide us, what is the test to know if we are being guided in the right direction or the wrong direction? Interesting thoughts brother thanks for sharing

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
If I build any of my beliefs apart from what Jesus taught when He came into this world to share God's will for us, then I am, as Jesus said, building my house on sand, rather than the ROCK of His teachings; as explained through the four gospels of Jesus' 3 year ministry.
In peace

I think what you have written here is the key to answering my questions to you in the last post brother.
 
Upvote 0

UnprofitableServant

ThyWillBeDone
Dec 10, 2018
155
100
Hollywood
✟44,325.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think what you have written here is the key to answering my questions to you in the last post brother.
I think what you quoted me saying in your last message is the answer to your question.
In peace
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I think what you quoted me saying in your last message is the answer to your question.
In peace
Yes brother that is why I posted it. I agree with this. Only God's WORD is our guide into God's truth as God leads us and guides us through his Spirit. How did you become a Christian?
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Been there and done that already showing you the context you left out that did not agree with your interpretation of Luke 16:16. You did not even respond to the post and the scriptures in them that disagreed with you and are now only simply repeating yourself without addressing the posts and the scriptures from God's WORD that disagree with your interpretation of it.

Please feel free to address the post and scriptures to you that disagreed with you earlier. Let me know brother when you have some scriptures to share brother. Until then all I am hearing are your words over God's. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
Are you talking about my not including v 17? If so here you go -

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Now please explain how this invalidates the the phrase "The law and the prophets were until John..." in verse 16.

Your non quoted point of contention has been dealt with. You can't prove I took anything out of context. Verse 16 says the law is in the past.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No problem, happy to share God's WORD. You mix up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *MATTHEW 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

Let's look at the scriptures in detail...

The OLD COVENANT was made up of many sets of LAWS. These included God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, SANITARY, CEREMONIAL, ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin and sin offerings for the SANCTUARY and PRIESTHOOD [Levitical].

EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

The Old Covenant included; The 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

1. GOD'S LAW (One scripture only as we already agree on this)
EXODUS 34:28 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

This is what you left out of your post which is only telling half the story...

2. THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT (Also part of the old covenant)
EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

EXODUS 24:7 [7], And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21], And the LORD shall separate him to evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the COVENANT THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK OF THE LAW.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26], Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

2 KINGS 23:2 [2], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT which was found in the house of the LORD.

2 KINGS 23:3 [3], And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THIS COVENANT THAT WERE WRITTEN IN THIS BOOK. And all the people stood to the COVENANT.

2 KINGS 23:21 [21], And the king commanded all the people, saying, KEEP THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD your God, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THIS COVENANT.

2 CHRONICLES 34:30 [30], And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and HE READ IN THEIR EARS ALL THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THE COVENANT that was found in the house of the LORD.

2 CHRONICLES 34:31 [31] And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, TO PERFORM THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK.

...............

CONCLUSION *Yep, the OLD COVENANT is not just the 10 Commandments it includes the prophetic SHADOW LAWS FROM THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT*

...............

The Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT were pointing to the NEW..

HEBREWS 9:1 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

EPHESIANS 2:15 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby
What I'm in awe of here is that you don't seem to insert a 10 in front of the word commandments. You do most every where else. The 4th commandment is purely a ceremonial commandment. It's also a shadow law pointing to Jesus as our rest. The physical rest required of by Israel has nothing to do with a spiritual rest they couldn't enter into. Both Paul and James indicate it's an all or nothing deal when it comes to the law. That excludes nothing.
EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

HEBREWS 10:1 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

What laws are written on the heart in the NEW COVENANT promise? It is not the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin...
Hate to inform you the famous 10 are called the "Law of Moses."
JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Your red emphasis isn't a reference to the famous 10 which are the covenant made with their fathers when God took them by the hand out of Egypt - Deut 4:13.
2 CORINTHIANS 3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)
How self defeating do you want to be?

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
The NEW COVENANT promise of LOVE is God's LAW (10 Commandments) written on the heart to LOVE through faith (HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10)
Doesn't support your position.
……………………………

CONCLUSION; Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE
Then explain the "but I say.... statements found in the Sermon on the Mount. These statements are clearly not the law.
yep it is the SHADOW laws that are fulfilled in Christ. The OLD COVENANT is made up of God's 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws in ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.
The famous 10 are ordinances. They're against us. That is contrary to our rebellious nature. They're hand written. They have been blotted out (Col 2).
You have your shadow laws mixed up with God's eternal LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is if broken. * ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:11; 1 JOHN 3:4
Writing things like this is your way of eliminating anything you don't like. You can't do that.
Happy to share the purpose of God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT in another post if your interested?

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT LINKING OLD AND NEW HERE Click me.

............

Now let's look at the house of the OLD COVENANT. It is called the ARK OF THE COVENANT and let's see what it included..

WHAT LAWS DID THE ARK OF THE COVENANT [HOUSE OF THE COVENANT] CONTAIN?

DEUTERONOMY 10:5 [5] And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they are, as the LORD commanded me.

Yep there is the 10 Commandments housed in the ARK of the COVENANT.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Well here you go now AOH can you see your error here?
No. Jer 31:31-33. LK 22:20.
EXODUS 24:7 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

..............

CONCLUSION: The ARK [House of the COVENANT] held God's 10 Commandments [2x tables of stone] and the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT . Together these made up the OLD COVENANT.
I can agree to this statement.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Are you talking about my not including v 17? If so here you go -

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Now please explain how this invalidates the the phrase "The law and the prophets were until John..." in verse 16.

Your non quoted point of contention has been dealt with. You can't prove I took anything out of context. Verse 16 says the law is in the past.

Well that has no truth in it brother. Let's look at the context you leave out of your interpretation of one verse.

Nope God's WORD is true it is your interpretation of Luke 16:16 that is the problem brother. JESUS was speaking in the present tense of the time of JOHN the BAPTIST stating that the Law and the prophets were until John. He is not saying God's LAW is abolished as JESUS says in v17-18 that you leave out...

LUKE 16:17-18 [17], And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one pronunciation mark of the law to fail. [18], Whoever puts away his wife, and marries another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery.

links to what JESUS says here in the parallel Gospel on the same passage in MATTHEW..

MATTHEW 5:17-28
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22], But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[23], Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you;
[24], Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
[25], Agree with your adversary quickly, whiles you are in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison.
[26], Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out there, till you have paid the uttermost farthing.
[27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery:
[28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Yep JESUS is applying God's LAW from the inside out. If your interpretation of LUKE 16:16 where correct JESUS would not be teaching the true application of God's 10 commandments.

Can you see your error here brother in the scripture context you leave out of your private interpretation of one verse? Your error is that you left out the context and have come to an incorrect understanding of the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
What I'm in awe of here is that you don't seem to insert a 10 in front of the word commandments. You do most every where else.

What I am in awe about is that you have made this post which is like all your others that do not respond to a single scripture or the content in the post you are trying to respond to. Why not respond to the post section by section and scripture by scripture the same as is done for your posts to show why you disagree with the posts and the scriptures provided that disagree with you? If I highlight the 10 commandments after commandments it is only to emphasize the point as that is the scripture context. As already shown to you in 1 JOHN 2:3-4 and other scriptures.

The 4th commandment is purely a ceremonial commandment.

Not are all brother, you mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 4th commandment is NOT a ceremonial law it is a "MEMORIAL" Commandment and reads.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> [Because God blessed this day and made it Holy for mankind and commands us to REMEMBER this day <MEMORIAL> keep it as a Holy day] [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God [This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK]: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

It's also a shadow law pointing to Jesus as our rest. The physical rest required of by Israel has nothing to do with a spiritual rest they couldn't enter into. Both Paul and James indicate it's an all or nothing deal when it comes to the law. That excludes nothing.

Well that has no truth in it and has no basis in scripture brother. Where is the scripture that says JESUS is our Sabbath? Wait there is none!

Now look at what you have written here. How can God's 4th commandment be a SHADOW law when all shadow laws were pointing to God's plan of salvation for mankind from SIN in the NEW COVENANT when the SABBATH was made BEFORE sin entered into the world and before God's plan of salvation was ever given to mankind? If you cannot answer these question with God's WORD it is because your statement above has no truth in it. God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH was made before SIN *GENESIS 2:1-3 so cannot be a SHADOW of anything as we was a part of the FINISHED work of creation when there was no sin.

NO SIN = NO SHADOW.

You mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 4th commandment is is a "MEMORIAL" of the FINISHED work of creation BEFORE SIN and BEFORE SHADOWS so cannot be a SHADOW.

Hate to inform you the famous 10 are called the "Law of Moses."

Not are all brother, you mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

Now what is the law of MOSES referring to and God's LAW?

NEHEMIAH 10:29 They joined to their brothers, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes.

GOD's eternal law was spoken and written by God alone *EXODUS 20:1-17; EXODUS 32:16.

Could this be the law of Moses your referring to?

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 29:21 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

Can you see your error hear brother? Your mixing up the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments).

Your red emphasis isn't a reference to the famous 10 which are the covenant made with their fathers when God took them by the hand out of Egypt - Deut 4:13.

Of course it is JEREMIAH 31:31-36 links to EZEKIEL 36:26-27 and in the NEW Testament HEBREWS 8:7-12; JOHN 8:31-36; JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4 and ROMANS 6 resulting in REVELATION 12:17; 14:12; 22:14 and 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

You mix up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL, SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW COVENANT is that the OLD COVENANT pointed to? If with your view there is no law then we have no knowledge of what sin is (this disagrees with God's WORD as shown above). If we have no knowledge of what sin is we will have no need of a Saviour to save us from sin. If you have no need of a Savior to save us from sin that we are still in our sins and will be lost because we need to be born again to be free from sin to walk in God's Spirit. Sin will keep all who knowingly continue to practice it out of God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

How self defeating do you want to be?

No need to be. You have been provided God's WORD and it disagrees with you. I believe God your words are simply your own and not God's.

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

AMEN! We are free from the condemnation of God's LAW and forgiven for our sins in the NEW COVENANT as we have faith in God's WORD. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin however are not free to walk in God's Spirit because they reject the gift of God's dear son because they are still in their sins *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Doesn't support your position.

Of course it does. JESUS says ON THESE TO COMMANDMENTS [Of LOVE to GOD and MAN] HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. You cannot separate LOVE from God's LAW (10 Commandments) when LOVE is expressed through them.

Then explain the "but I say.... statements found in the Sermon on the Mount. These statements are clearly not the law.

God's WORD disagrees with you because JESUS is preaching God's LAW in the sermon on the mount.

MATTHEW 5:17-29
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22], But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[23], Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you;
[24], Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
[25], Agree with your adversary quickly, whiles you are in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison.
[26], Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out there, till you have paid the uttermost farthing.
[27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery:
[28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
[29], And if your right eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into hell.

Yep Jesus is certainly referencing the 10 Commandment applying them to the thoughts and feelings. Seems like we need a new heart because ours is broken.

............

NOTE: After stating that none of God's LAW (10 Commandments) have been abolished v17-19, Jesus then goes on to say; v20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus then goes on and amplifies the application of God's LAW to the heart (thoughts and feelings) which is the very root of sin saying that if we lust after women we are committing Adultery and being angry with your brother as murder from the 10 commandments as examples in v17-27.Jesus starts out by saying;

Jesus finishes by saying in v48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Looks like we have a broken heart that has no LOVE and need to be Born again. What do you think?

Hope this helps.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The famous 10 are ordinances. They're against us. hat is contrary to our rebellious nature. They're hand written. They have been blotted out (Col 2).Writing things like this is your way of eliminating anything you don't like. You can't do that.No. Jer 31:31-33. LK 22:20.I can agree to this statement.

Nope your mixing up your shadow laws again from the Mosaic book of the Covenant. Let's look at the scriptures.

COL 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14,
Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means; ORDINANCE; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL laws>that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.
The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

WHAT ARE THE ORDINANCES?

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4-9 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15-16 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10:1-4 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

NOTE: these SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES pointed to JESUS...

JOHN 6:66 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8-9 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECHARIAH 9:9-11 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no waterVerse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12:23-24 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22:19-20 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the law. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.

NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK of the OLD COVENANT EXODUS 24:7 Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices.

MORE SCRIPTURE CLICK ME?

CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments or the 4th Commandment it is talking about CEREMONIAL ORDINACES written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant for remission of SIN and annual festivals and HOLY DAYS and special SABBATHS of LEV 23 that pointed to Jesus and GOd's plan of salvation.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Can you see your error here brother? Only sent in LOVE as a help.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The famous 10 are ordinances.

The above posts and scriptures brother showing your errors are only sent in Love and as a help to you. Please prayerfully consider them and do not ignore them as they are God's Word not mine.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It is kind of like you have never done a complete word study on the word "ordinance/s" from scripture. You are in error.

Hello brother LOC,

Under the NEW COVENANT promise God' wants to be our teacher and promises to guide us into all truth if we continue in his Word *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26; 16:13; 7:17 8:31-36. These promises are conditional however on continuing in God's WORD and praying for God's Spirit to lead us and guide us at every step.

I think many try to seek for God's truth and are led astray through putting their confidence in the teachings of men or their church which leads them away from God's WORD.

1 CORINTHIANS 1:19-21
[19], For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
[20], Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
[21], For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Perhaps many may not know how to study God's WORD through topical studies for themselves? It is amazing what God can teach you and how he can lead and guide us as we seek him through his Word and ask him the be our teacher.

I love God's WORD. (JESUS)

God bless brother, thanks for sharing here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Nope your mixing up your shadow laws again from the Mosaic book of the Covenant. Let's look at the scriptures.

COL 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14,
Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means; ORDINANCE; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL laws>that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Hate to break in to your creative writing. I can agree down to your definition of dogma (ordinances). Here is Strong's rendition -

  1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
    1. of public decrees

    2. of the Roman Senate

    3. of rulers
  2. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment

  3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
You by pass the word civil in your definition and discuss only ceremonial to fit what you believe. My dictionary defines ordinance as -

NOUN
  1. NORTH AMERICAN
    a piece of legislation enacted by a municipal authority.
    "a city ordinance banned smoking in nearly all types of restaurants"
  2. an authoritative order; a decree.
    synonyms:
    edict · decree · law · injunction · fiat · command · order · rule · ruling ·
    [more]
  3. a prescribed religious rite.
The last being a ceremonial item. But notice it says a prescribed religious rite.

There's nothing to indicate only ceremonial in the verse. But since you claim it's only ceremonial items of the law (ordinances/dogma), you need to explain how celebration is against us. Celebration is how one observes ceremonial things (days or events). All ceremonies are celebrations remembering something. That mean the sabbath is a celebration of something (creation).
The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.
The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.
See above complete c&p definitions. The famous 10 are ordinances (laws) of requirement.

Also interesting are the statements about certain commandments such as taking the Lord's Name in vain, lying, adultery, etc. often appearing in the forum by sabbatarians. Aren't they ordinances (laws) punishable upon violation? Doesn't the law require punishment? If not what's your beef about not keeping the 4th?
ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.
So now you say "PENALTY of SIN." Do you mean this is what is blotted out? It seems so when I read your other posts. I ask then what is the value of that law? It can't bite anyone because it's blotted out. Net effect is live however you want, there aren't any consequences. Punishment is removed, remember?
DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)
Why? you say they're blotted out, remember?
CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.
That would be in error as I've shown.
WHAT ARE THE ORDINANCES?

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
I quote you from this post in color since you like drawing attention to a word you would rather not be there -

Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. This clearly means ordinances of divine service aren't the only ordinances. Those ordinances aren't pointed out in Col 2 to your dismay.
old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4-9 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15-16 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned with out the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.
You've got real guts to post the above two passages. It so self defeating, I'm in awe. Because of your creative writing I must check each word of many passages you post. You've got no idea how hard it is to refrain from hysterical out bursts. They're so self defeating I can't even get upset with you.

I see no need to continue with your post.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The above posts and scriptures brother showing your errors are only sent in Love and as a help to you. Please prayerfully consider them and do not ignore them as they are God's Word not mine.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
You may pick apart my above response line by line.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It is kind of like you have never done a complete word study on the word "ordinance/s" from scripture. You are in error.
You can't be serious. since you say I'm in error, you have the opportunity to prove it instead of making some unfounded statement. I request you do.
 
Upvote 0

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hello brother LOC,

Under the NEW COVENANT promise God' wants to be our teacher and promises to guide us into all truth if we continue in his Word *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26; 16:13; 7:17 8:31-36. These promises are conditional however on continuing in God's WORD and praying for God's Spirit to lead us and guide us at every step.

I think many try to seek for God's truth and are led astray through putting their confidence in the teachings of men or their church which leads them away from God's WORD.
This is why I'm no longer a member of a certain church.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hate to break in to your creative writing. I can agree down to your definition of dogma (ordinances). Here is Strong's rendition -
  1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
    1. of public decrees

    2. of the Roman Senate

    3. of rulers
  2. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment

  3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living
You by pass the word civil in your definition and discuss only ceremonial to fit what you believe. My dictionary defines ordinance as -

NOUN
  1. NORTH AMERICAN
    a piece of legislation enacted by a municipal authority.
    "a city ordinance banned smoking in nearly all types of restaurants"
  2. an authoritative order; a decree.
    synonyms:
    edict · decree · law · injunction · fiat · command · order · rule · ruling ·
    [more]
  3. a prescribed religious rite.
The last being a ceremonial item. But notice it says a prescribed religious rite.

There's nothing to indicate only ceremonial in the verse.

Nope not really brother here you go...

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1378
δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical - decree, ordinance.

But since you claim it's only ceremonial items of the law (ordinances/dogma), you need to explain how celebration is against us. Celebration is how one observes ceremonial things (days or events). All ceremonies are celebrations remembering something. That mean the sabbath is a celebration of something (creation).

Why would I need to explain how celebration is against us? It is SIN and the penalty of sin that is against us. Your statement above really makes no sense perhaps you need to go back and re think this one brother.

See above complete c&p definitions. The famous 10 are ordinances (laws) of requirement.

You seem confused as to what an ordinance is even after God's WORD has already defined it for you in both the GREEK and in scripture.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1378 δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical - decree, ordinance.

God's 10 Commandments are not CIVIL, CEREMONIAL of ECCLESIASTICAL laws in ORDINANCES. They are God's MORAL laws written on STONE that express our duty of LOVE to GOD and LOVE to Man and give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

Here is what God's WORD says of these laws in ORDINANCES I noticed you ignored this section.

WHAT ARE THE ORDINANCES?

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4-9 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15-16 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10:1-4 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

NOTE: these SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES pointed to JESUS...

JOHN 6:66 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8-9 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECHARIAH 9:9-11 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no waterVerse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12:23-24 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22:19-20 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the law. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.

NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK of the OLD COVENANT EXODUS 24:7 Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices.

MORE SCRIPTURE CLICK ME?

CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments or the 4th Commandment it is talking about CEREMONIAL ORDINACES written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant for remission of SIN and annual festivals and HOLY DAYS and special SABBATHS of LEV 23 that pointed to Jesus and GOd's plan of salvation.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Can you see your error here brother? Sorry brother there is a lot of scripture here that disagrees with you. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

Also interesting are the statements about certain commandments such as taking the Lord's Name in vain, lying, adultery, etc. often appearing in the forum by sabbatarians. Aren't they ordinances (laws) punishable upon violation? Doesn't the law require punishment? If not what's your beef about not keeping the 4th?

Nope God's 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES as shown above already in both the GREEK word application which means Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1378 δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical - decree, ordinance. God LAW (10 Commandments) are all MORAL LAWS of our duty of LOVE to GOD and our duty of LOVE to man. God's 10 Commandments give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

So now you say "PENALTY of SIN." Do you mean this is what is blotted out? It seems so when I read your other posts. I ask then what is the value of that law? It can't bite anyone because it's blotted out.

IT is the PENALTY of SIN that was were blotted out at the cross and the laws that were against us pointing to JESUS as our true sacrifice for sin and great high priest who ministers on our behalf in the HEAVENLY SANCTUARY. It is the PENALTY of SIN which is death that was against us. This is nailed to the cross for all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

Net effect is live however you want, there aren't any consequences. Punishment is removed, remember? Why? you say they're blotted out, remember?

Nope. Those who continue in known UNREPENTANT SIN do not know God and will not enter the kingdom of HEAVEN because they reject the GIFT of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ROMANS 6:23. If you continue in sin you will die *ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:1-2; ROMANS 3:31.

LGW wrote: CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

That would be in error as I've shown.

Nope I have just shown you in this post your claims are false and in error.

I quote you from this post in color since you like drawing attention to a word you would rather not be there - Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. This clearly means ordinances of divine service aren't the only ordinances. Those ordinances aren't pointed out in Col 2 to your dismay.

Nope because your definition of ORDINANCE is in error. As shown earlier ORDINANCE means
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G1378 δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical - decree, ordinance. God LAW (10 Commandments) are all MORAL LAWS of our duty of LOVE to GOD and our duty of LOVE to man. God's 10 Commandments give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. You mix up the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES with God's eternal MORAL laws that give us the KNOWLDGE of sin when broken.

Can you see your error here brother?

You've got real guts to post the above two passages. It so self defeating, I'm in awe. Because of your creative writing I must check each word of many passages you post. You've got no idea how hard it is to refrain from hysterical out bursts. They're so self defeating I can't even get upset with you. I see no need to continue with your post.

Well not really brother. This section you have posted here does not address anything that has been posted to you. Now that in my view is creative writing in order to get out of addressing the rest of the post and the scriptures in them that disagree with you.

Hope this helps brother only sent in all love as a help to you.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Pick apart my above response line by line.

Well it is funny that you expect this of me but you refuse to do this with the posts and scriptures in them that are sent only as a help to you. Anyhow alredy done like I do for all your posts and sent in love.

Hope they help.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ace of hearts

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,507
1,149
west coast
✟39,128.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Well that has no truth in it brother. Let's look at the context you leave out of your interpretation of one verse.

Nope God's WORD is true it is your interpretation of Luke 16:16 that is the problem brother. JESUS was speaking in the present tense of the time of JOHN the BAPTIST stating that the Law and the prophets were until John. He is not saying God's LAW is abolished as JESUS says in v17-18 that you leave out...

LUKE 16:17-18 [17], And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one pronunciation mark of the law to fail. [18], Whoever puts away his wife, and marries another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery.

links to what JESUS says here in the parallel Gospel on the same passage in MATTHEW..

MATTHEW 5:17-28
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
[22], But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
[23], Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you;
[24], Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
[25], Agree with your adversary quickly, whiles you are in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison.
[26], Truly I say to you, You shall by no means come out there, till you have paid the uttermost farthing.
[27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery:
[28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Yep JESUS is applying God's LAW from the inside out. If your interpretation of LUKE 16:16 where correct JESUS would not be teaching the true application of God's 10 commandments.

Can you see your error here brother in the scripture context you leave out of your private interpretation of one verse? Your error is that you left out the context and have come to an incorrect understanding of the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

Are these the words of Jesus -

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Would you please explain them?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.