7 year old girl dies of dehydration and exhaustion in Border Patrol custody

[seeking.IAM]

I'd risk staying in my country as the trip to the USA will likely result in me being sent back anyways and risk my kids life even more. Staying in your country is smaller odds of something happening.

Ever wonder what risks your ancestors took? One of mine came alone at 14 years old before 1776. He must have wanted or needed to come pretty badly.

 

[zelosravioli]

Our ancestors assumed the risk involved - I don't 'recall' reading of any of our earlier immigrants blaming others for their difficult ordeals in making the journey - of course unless it was a slave ship, but that was against their will.

'Who' told those people they were going to just walk in? Maybe we should blame those who encouraged and told these people - that they could just march to the gate and get in.

Once here Ellis island and such were no joke, but still it was a 'vetting process', no one was 'guaranteed' they would enter. And those with contagious ailments, criminals, and such, were turned around and sent back (although a very small percentage nevertheless).

I do recall that many of our earliest immigrants complained of the local natives shooting arrows at them and such. Glad we got rid of those haters, right!

 

[seeking.IAM]

Before 1924 no visa was necessary to enter the United States. You just had to buy a boat ticket.

 

[zelosravioli]

The History.com page, has the following, and seems to be describing the time around 1907:

“It varied from person to person, but for 80 percent, the process took a few hours, and then they were out and through,” he says. “But it could also take a couple days, a couple weeks, a couple months or, in some very rare cases, a couple of years..

...The process went something like this: Before the ship was allowed to enter into New York Harbor, according to Moreno, it had to stop at a quarantine checkpoint off the coast of Staten Island where doctors would look for dangerous contagious diseases such as smallpox, yellow fever, plague, cholera and leprosy. Once the ship passed inspection, immigration officers began boarding the ship via rope ladders, before it docked. They had to start immigration procedures really fast because there were so many passengers—often as many as 2,000 to 3,000 passengers from all classes,” Moreno says. “You could have as many as 1,500 passengers in third class alone....

The doctors also had to know a few words of instruction in many languages. “Most of the immigrants were illiterate even in their own languages,” Moreno notes. “And by 1907, the doctors had already developed a secret code system using a piece of chalk. They would mark the passenger’s clothes with a letter of the alphabet: ‘H’ indicated heart trouble suspected; ‘L’ suspected lameness; ‘X’ suspected feeble-mindedness, and so on. Those marked, Moreno says, were removed from the line and “taken across the room where you were locked in a pen, a cage, called the doctor’s pen” until the doctors were free to continue further examinations or questioning"

Only about 10 percent of people were detained for this kind of questioning,” he says. “Ninety percent got through this line of questioning without any problem. Why? Partly because the doctors knew there wasn’t enough space to detain too many people. Next, immigrants were filtered into long lines to be interviewed by inspectors (often with the help of interpreters). “The inspector would verify the passenger manifest by rereading the information provided,” Moreno says. “If everything was OK, he would just make a little check mark by your name, but if your answers were bad, wrong or suspicious, or if secret information had arrived about you previous to your arrival, your name was marked with an ‘X’ and you were told you would be detained.”

“Detention meant you could be held overnight, and you would sleep in dormitory rooms and you would be fed three meals a day in the immigrants’ dining room,” Moreno says. “You would be forced to stay at Ellis Island until something was resolved, such as being wired money or being able to provide an address.” He says serious detention cases, which were rare, could be designated for almost any reason but usually had something to do with questions of morality (if, for example, a woman was pregnant and unmarried) or criminal accusations. “They were looking for suspected anarchists, persons who were politically dangerous and contract laborers—immigrants who were being brought in to break strikes.”

https://www.history.com/news/immigrants-ellis-island-short-processing-time

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Once here Ellis island and such were no joke, but still it was a 'vetting process', no one was 'guaranteed' they would enter. And those with contagious ailments, criminals, and such, were turned around and sent back

Should still work good today.

Before 1924 no visa was necessary to enter the United States.

Different circumstances today.
Many, many more people wanting to come here.
M-Bob

 

[Kaon]

I'd risk staying in my country as the trip to the USA will likely result in me being sent back anyways and risk my kids life even more. Staying in your country is smaller odds of something happening.

So, knowing that the chances of your daughter dying in your country are greater than if you take her to another place with a fraction more hope - you would stay in your country?

I am asking this because, incidentally, it would answer whether you think a father would choose to let his daughter continue through such horrors when he knows there is a better chance somewhere else.


As I said before, most people seem to have forgotten who destabilized these countries in the first place.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Here's the question no one ever seems to want to answer?

We let (legally) approximately 1 million people into the United States each year.

How many more do you wish to let in?

5 million?

10 million?

25 million?

50 million?

Tear down the border and let them all in?

M-Bob

 

[Radagast]

According to the Telegraph and other news reports, the father initially stated that the girl was fine. She was at a location with water available, but in a large group with over 160 people.

The girl started experiencing fever and vomiting while being transferred by bus to a border patrol station (a 2-hour trip). This was the first notification that anything was wrong. Staff on the bus appear to have radioed ahead that there was a problem. The girl had stopped breathing by the time the bus arrived. EMTs revived her on arrival and she was flown by air ambulance to a hospital in El Paso, where she died of liver failure, after about 16 hours in intensive care.

It seems to me that the one thing that border patrol could have done differently was have the air ambulance waiting for the bus on arrival (that would have saved an hour), but I doubt that the staff on the bus had the medical expertise to fully evaluate the situation. And it may have made no difference; it's clear that a lengthy period of dehydration had taken its toll. It's a tragedy, and an avoidable one, but not I think one that border patrol can be blamed for.

And I don't think its fair to expect all border patrol agents to speak Q'eqchi, which has been one suggestion.

 

[FireDragon76]

Citizenship was not offered. Migrants in the caravan originating from Honduras were offered temporary identification papers and jobs if they applied for asylum in Mexico. In order to qualify for the program migrants had to be in Mexico’s southern states of Chipas, which has a 75% poverty rate or Oaxaca's, which is over 60%. Grim economic prospects are not the only cause of justifiable fear in declining the offer. Violence and rampant discrimination are often stronger factors. Mexican immigration agents have targeted migrants from the Mayan indigenous community of Guatemala the father and daughter are from (as well indigenous Mexicans) and treated them brutally. There are credible allegations of detainees being systematically tortured and then being deported to the most poverty-stricken area of Guatemala. This would understandably make many indigenous migrants leery of offers from Mexico. Mayan descendants have been preyed on by gangs and subjected to pervasive discrimination and violence in both Guatemala and much of Mexico for decades.
I think many understandably view staying in Mexico as being like jumping from the frying pan into the flame.

Chiapas and Oaxaca are also full of criminals and gangs, not exactly garden spots to settle in.

I don't think its down to simply being bored and greedy for the suppossed prosperty of El Norte, for many of the people they are doing the only logical thing possible.

 

[seeking.IAM]

...How many more do you wish to let in?...

M-Bob

Idealistic, I know, but a world without borders would be rather nice. Let economics decide it. Can't support yourself? Choose somewhere else.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Realistically, I'm not in favor of open borders, although I think the wall is a ridiculously expensive and ineffective solution. More than anything I wish for Christian's to have a more charitable response to these persons, also loved by and created in the image of God.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Chiapas and Oaxaca are also full of criminals and gangs, not exactly garden spots to settle in.

I don't think its down to simply being bored and greedy for the suppossed prosperty of El Norte, for many of the people they are doing the only logical thing possible.

Tijuana job fair brings migrants, prospective employers together

 

[FireDragon76]

Realistically, I'm not in favor of open borders, although I think the wall is a ridiculously expensive and ineffective solution. More than anything I wish for Cristian's to have a more charitable response to these persons, also loved by and created in the image of God.

Yeah, I agree. You don't have to agree with my politics but... the idea that callous disregard for the plight of the suffering is consonant with a living Christian faith is unrecognizable to me.

My dad has been going to church with me recently but he has some work to do in this regard, as he has tended to dwell in a bit of a culture bubble, unchurched, on the right. We live in a culture that is at times very comfortable with callous disregarded, especially towards strangers and outsiders. But being in the business of serving the neighbor, even if they are a stranger, is what Christians are called to do. That doesn't mean we have to become the next Mother Theresa, but we should have higher aspirations that simply to be a human being obsessed with their own lives.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

So, knowing that the chances of your daughter dying in your country are greater than if you take her to another place with a fraction more hope - you would stay in your country?

I am asking this because, incidentally, it would answer whether you think a father would choose to let his daughter continue through such horrors when he knows there is a better chance somewhere else.


As I said before, most people seem to have forgotten who destabilized these countries in the first place.

Eh. I'd still choose to stay in my own country or go to another country thats near by. But not take a far trip to USA. Unless I could obtain a visa. The journey is more dangerous then the risk of death in their home country.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Eh. I'd still choose to stay in my own country or go to another country thats near by. But not take a far trip to USA. Unless I could obtain a visa. The journey is more dangerous then the risk of death in their home country.

I suppose that's easy to decide when you're not the one living it.

 

[Blade]

"it should be noted that such a journey may not have taken place had they not been fleeing something horrible." I cant find any info on this. This is just speculation. Were they told to go that way? Forced to go that way, on and we can speculate all we want.

We can say Mexico offered them a place to live..yes? I read it.. heard it from Mexico's mouth so to speak. Meaning people from OUT SIDE Mexico came in to Mexico because where they were coming from "SOME" TRUTH we dont know.. talk to them have we? Yet.. we can only SPECULATE.. they then travel many many miles and reject Mexico's offer.

Who's fault? Ever lose a child? So easy to look from the out side and blame... ever lose a child? Know the pain that Dad is going through? A Christian site.. helping are we? Praying FOR Dad are we?

 

[Kaon]

Eh. I'd still choose to stay in my own country or go to another country thats near by. But not take a far trip to USA. Unless I could obtain a visa. The journey is more dangerous then the risk of death in their home country.

The countries "nearby" are in similar disarray - that is why they are coming to the States.

In the thought experiment it was implied that you cannot have any other choice other than stay in your country that is destabilized, or flee to a nation you know has better condition (that possibly even destabilized your nation). Either situation more or less guarantees death, but the latter choice aforementioned is a bit less of a guarantee for death. The nation is not dangerous, but the journey is - even so, less dangerous than your home nation or surrounding accessible nations.

You must choose one.

 

[brinny]

So, knowing that the chances of your daughter dying in your country are greater than if you take her to another place with a fraction more hope - you would stay in your country?

I am asking this because, incidentally, it would answer whether you think a father would choose to let his daughter continue through such horrors when he knows there is a better chance somewhere else.


As I said before, most people seem to have forgotten who destabilized these countries in the first place.

As I said before, most people seem to have forgotten who destabilized these countries in the first place.

Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Go Braves]

Citizenship was not offered. Migrants in the caravan originating from Honduras were offered temporary identification papers and jobs if they applied for asylum in Mexico. In order to qualify for the program migrants had to be in Mexico’s southern states of Chipas, which has a 75% poverty rate or Oaxaca's, which is over 60%. Grim economic prospects are not the only cause of justifiable fear in declining the offer. Violence and rampant discrimination are often stronger factors. Mexican immigration agents have targeted migrants from the Mayan indigenous community of Guatemala the father and daughter are from (as well indigenous Mexicans) and treated them brutally. There are credible allegations of detainees being systematically tortured and then being deported to the most poverty-stricken area of Guatemala. This would understandably make many indigenous migrants leery of offers from Mexico. Mayan descendants have been preyed on by gangs and subjected to pervasive discrimination and violence in both Guatemala and much of Mexico for decades.
I think many understandably view staying in Mexico as being like jumping from the frying pan into the flame.

Thanks for giving us some facts. I know too many folks don't give a fart about facts, but I sure do.

 

[Radagast]

Idealistic, I know, but a world without borders would be rather nice.

Unrestricted cross-border drug smuggling. Unrestricted cross-border weapons smuggling. Unrestricted cross-border sex trafficking. Unrestricted cross-border travel by criminals and terrorists.

I must say, I'm not seeing the benefits of these things. Care to explain?