LDS Matthew 22 & Eternal Marriage

[mmksparbud]

If man is made in the image of God, then God has to be in the image of man. Right?

The clift in the rock with God flying past Moses happened before the incarnation. So before the incarnation God had back parts, a face, and hands. That's interesting. How do you explain that?

If Jesus was "made", does that make him a creature?

Wrong!! A ragdoll is made in our image---we are not made in the image of a ragdoll. Jesus was never created---He "became" a man through the power of the Holy Spirit at the incarnation. Before that He was never human, nor was His Father ever human. Bible does not explain what that face, and hands looked like. We can not see His face and live. A dog has a face, so does a gorilla---big difference. Likeness, image does not equal exactly the same thing, exactly the same substance. before the incarnation Jesus could not be seen face to face---Moses spoke face to face with Him, and He appeared between the cherubim over the ark, but He was always shielded by the wings of the cherubim. Even seeing only His back parts, Moses shone so brightly the Israelites could not stand to look at him and he had to be veiled. We are definitely not the same! Even a lizard can stand to look at us!

 

[mmksparbud]

I know the head covering is a tough application to "the man is not without the woman, neither is the woman without man "in the Lord".

I am not suggesting that the Lord does not care about children. He loves all children and wants the best for all children. The conversation is, who can be married in heaven. The only ones that can be married in heaven are those husbands and wives that are "in the Lord", who have been married by one that holds the keys to the KOH. Remember Jesus gave Peter these keys, that whatever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatsoever is loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven.

That is what is meant by "in the Lord". Those that are married by a person who holds the keys to binding and loosing will be married for eternity, not just for life, because they are "in the Lord".

As soon as you make your final statement using words like "Smith's fairytell events", I know I have won the argument.

Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

Children and parents who are saved will be together for eternity---they do not require any priest to make that happen. Husbands and wives who are saved, will be together for eternity---no priest required either. We all will be together for eternity---no priest required---except for Jesus our High Priest!

 

[Rescued One]

How does your union with Christ manifest itself daily?

Through the grace of God that is with me.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The conversation is, who can be married in heaven. The only ones that can be married in heaven are those husbands and wives that are "in the Lord", who have been married by one that holds the keys to the KOH.

The above is your fairy tale. It is made up, with no Biblical support whatsoever. You have been shown time and again that the Biblical Scriptures you try to use to support your argument are taken out of context and/or just don't apply to marriage.

As soon as you make your final statement using words like "Smith's fairytell events", I know I have won the argument.

The truth hurts, doesn't it? Fairy tales are made up stories, which completely fits your narrative about marriage in heaven.

 

[Peter1000]

Did it imply the disciples were part of the Godhead? We are one in nature, in thought--never in substance--The 3 are Diviine--we never can be. We are created, they are not, never have been.

If we are one in nature, we are one in substance.

 

[Peter1000]

Through the grace of God that is with me.

And how does the grace of God that is with you manifest itself on a daily basis?

 

[Peter1000]

Wrong!! A ragdoll is made in our image---we are not made in the image of a ragdoll. Jesus was never created---He "became" a man through the power of the Holy Spirit at the incarnation. Before that He was never human, nor was His Father ever human. Bible does not explain what that face, and hands looked like. We can not see His face and live. A dog has a face, so does a gorilla---big difference. Likeness, image does not equal exactly the same thing, exactly the same substance. before the incarnation Jesus could not be seen face to face---Moses spoke face to face with Him, and He appeared between the cherubim over the ark, but He was always shielded by the wings of the cherubim. Even seeing only His back parts, Moses shone so brightly the Israelites could not stand to look at him and he had to be veiled. We are definitely not the same! Even a lizard can stand to look at us!

Let me approach this another way. Using a scripture in Genesis 5:
Genesis 5:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Now we have in Genesis 5:3 the exact same verbiage that is found in Genesis 1:26. The only difference is that this scripture is about Adam creating his son Seth. Seth, as you would expect, is IN ADAMS OWN LIKENESS AND AFTER ADAMS IMAGE.

Now if I had shown you this scripture before I showed you Genisis 1:26 and then asked you, does this make sense? You would have said yes.
If I would have said, since Seth is in the image and likeness of Adam, you would expect Adam to look like and be in substance like Seth, and you would have said, I agree.

Now Genesis 1:26 says that God created Adam in His image and in His likeness, but you will not agree with me, using the same words, that God would look like and be in substance like Adam.
The question is why not?

The answer is that you do not have a corporeal way of thinking about God as does the bible. You have been taught to think of God in an entirely different way than the bible teaches, especially in the OT.
(God exposed His backparts to Moses). Backparts????? How could God have backparts??? Ask Moses.
The only answer is: He is in the image and likeness of man, because He created man in His image and likeness including even His backparts.

 

[Rescued One]

And how does the grace of God that is with you manifest itself on a daily basis?

What is the point of asking that? What has my life to do with the erroneous concept of eternal marriage?

 

[Rescued One]

That rabbit trail:

 

[mmksparbud]

If we are one in nature, we are one in substance.

Nature is not substance! My best friend and I, since I was 14, are very much alike. We are closer than she and her sister---we are not the dame substance, I'm Hispanic, she's Norwegian. For that matter--my dog and I were very similar in nature! We're defiantly not the same substance!

sub·stance
[ˈsəbstəns]
NOUN

1. a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
   "a steel tube coated with a waxy substance"
   synonyms:
   material · matter · stuff · medium · fabric
2. the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.
   "proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"
   synonyms:
   solidity · body · corporeality · reality · actuality · materiality ·
   [more]

na·ture
[ˈnāCHər]
NOUN

1. the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations.
   "the breathtaking beauty of nature"
   synonyms:
   the natural world · the living world · Mother Nature · creation · the world ·
   Mother Nature.
   "it is impossible to change the laws of nature"
2. the basic or inherent features of something, especially when seen as characteristic of it.
   "helping them to realize the nature of their problems" ·
   essence · inherent/basic/essential characteristics ·
   human nature.
   "it's not in her nature to listen to advice" ·
   character · personality · disposition · temperament · temper ·
   [more]

 

[mmksparbud]

Let me approach this another way. Using a scripture in Genesis 5:
Genesis 5:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Now we have in Genesis 5:3 the exact same verbiage that is found in Genesis 1:26. The only difference is that this scripture is about Adam creating his son Seth. Seth, as you would expect, is IN ADAMS OWN LIKENESS AND AFTER ADAMS IMAGE.

Now if I had shown you this scripture before I showed you Genisis 1:26 and then asked you, does this make sense? You would have said yes.
If I would have said, since Seth is in the image and likeness of Adam, you would expect Adam to look like and be in substance like Seth, and you would have said, I agree.

Now Genesis 1:26 says that God created Adam in His image and in His likeness, but you will not agree with me, using the same words, that God would look like and be in substance like Adam.
The question is why not?

The answer is that you do not have a corporeal way of thinking about God as does the bible. You have been taught to think of God in an entirely different way than the bible teaches, especially in the OT.
(God exposed His backparts to Moses). Backparts????? How could God have backparts??? Ask Moses.
The only answer is: He is in the image and likeness of man, because He created man in His image and likeness including even His backparts.

Not even a child is not the exact replica of the parents. We are not a clone of God. Are you of the opinion that the angels are made in the image and likeness of God?

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa_8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

How can we be the same as God when we were created LOWER than the angels? Jesus became lower than the angels when He became a man.

 

[Rescued One]

Not even a child is not the exact replica of the parents. We are not a clone of God. Are you of the opinion that the angels are made in the image and likeness of God?

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa_8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

How can we be the same as God when we were created LOWER than the angels? Jesus became lower than the angels when He became a man.

In Mormonism, angels are not another species to God and humans.

These are messengers of the Lord and are spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews as “ministering spirits” (Heb. 1:14). We learn from latter-day revelation that there are two classes of heavenly beings who minister for the Lord: those who are spirits and those who have bodies of flesh and bone. Spirits are those beings who either have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone (unembodied) or who have once had a mortal body and have died and are awaiting the Resurrection (disembodied). Ordinarily the word angel means those ministering persons who have a body of flesh and bone, being either resurrected from the dead (reembodied), or else translated, as were Enoch, Elijah, etc. (D&C 129).
Angels

 

[mmksparbud]

In Mormonism, angels are not another species to God and humans.

These are messengers of the Lord and are spoken of in the epistle to the Hebrews as “ministering spirits” (Heb. 1:14). We learn from latter-day revelation that there are two classes of heavenly beings who minister for the Lord: those who are spirits and those who have bodies of flesh and bone. Spirits are those beings who either have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone (unembodied) or who have once had a mortal body and have died and are awaiting the Resurrection (disembodied). Ordinarily the word angel means those ministering persons who have a body of flesh and bone, being either resurrected from the dead (reembodied), or else translated, as were Enoch, Elijah, etc. (D&C 129).
Angels

But it clearly says we are lower than the angels---that is a different "kind" from us. Some have 2 wings, some have 4 wings, and others 6.

 

[Rescued One]

But it clearly says we are lower than the angels---that is a different "kind" from us. Some have 2 wings, some have 4 wings, and others 6.

Mormons teach that our status depends on our obedience. Mormons also don't depict any angels with wings.


I know that Mormon teachings don't make sense; Jesus was 100% obedient. And in order to become a God it was once taught that you need an exalted body of flesh and bones which the Holy Spirit doesn't have.

 

[Rescued One]

Cherubim
Figures representing heavenly creatures, the exact form being unknown. They are found in the Holy of Holies, on the Mercy Seat of the Ark (Ex. 25:18, 22; 1 Kgs. 6:23–28; Heb. 9:5), and in the visions of Ezekiel (Ezek. 10; 11:22). In the account of the Fall, cherubim are represented as keeping “the way of the tree of life” (Gen. 3:24).
Cherubim

 

[mmksparbud]

I know that Mormon teachings don't make sense;

No they don't. Seraphim are the ones with 6 wings. Cherubim are also described with 4 faces, 4 wings. Lucifer was a covering cherub, and so is Gabriel. Definitely not our kind!

 

[Peter1000]

Nature is not substance! My best friend and I, since I was 14, are very much alike. We are closer than she and her sister---we are not the dame substance, I'm Hispanic, she's Norwegian. For that matter--my dog and I were very similar in nature! We're defiantly not the same substance!

sub·stance
[ˈsəbstəns]
NOUN

1. a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
   "a steel tube coated with a waxy substance"
   synonyms:
   material · matter · stuff · medium · fabric
2. the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.
   "proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"
   synonyms:
   solidity · body · corporeality · reality · actuality · materiality ·
   [more]

na·ture
[ˈnāCHər]
NOUN

1. the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations.
   "the breathtaking beauty of nature"
   synonyms:
   the natural world · the living world · Mother Nature · creation · the world ·
   Mother Nature.
   "it is impossible to change the laws of nature"
2. the basic or inherent features of something, especially when seen as characteristic of it.
   "helping them to realize the nature of their problems" ·
   essence · inherent/basic/essential characteristics ·
   human nature.
   "it's not in her nature to listen to advice" ·
   character · personality · disposition · temperament · temper ·
   [more]

"Nature" encompasses all of what you are.

The "nature" of God, is what we think God is made up of. You think His "nature" is divine and that His form is spirit.

I think His "nature" is divine, and that His form is resurrected flesh and bone and spirit like unto a man.

You and your friend have the same "nature" too. You are both mortal, but have a spark of divinity in you, and your forms are flesh and blood and bone and spirit.

So you are making my case.

 

[Peter1000]

Not even a child is not the exact replica of the parents. We are not a clone of God. Are you of the opinion that the angels are made in the image and likeness of God?

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa_8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

How can we be the same as God when we were created LOWER than the angels? Jesus became lower than the angels when He became a man.

The scriptures do not say that angels are made in the image of God. But it does say that we mortals are made in the image and likenss of God. Big difference. Did you think the Genesis 5 scripture was interesting as the verbiage was the same as Genesis 1:26, so that God made Adam in His image and likeness, just as Adam made Seth in his image and likenss. At least that should give you pause to consider what I am saying.

Since we know what Adam and Seth looked like, and what they are made of, we should now know what God and Adam look like, and what they are made of too. Pause and take some time to think and pray about this.

Again you bring up scriptures that tell us that Jesus was MADE...... Is Jesus a creature too?

 

[Peter1000]

No they don't. Seraphim are the ones with 6 wings. Cherubim are also described with 4 faces, 4 wings. Lucifer was a covering cherub, and so is Gabriel. Definitely not our kind!

Are all cherubim alike?

 

[Peter1000]

Mormons teach that our status depends on our obedience. Mormons also don't depict any angels with wings.
View attachment 245545

I know that Mormon teachings don't make sense; Jesus was 100% obedient. And in order to become a God it was once taught that you need an exalted body of flesh and bones which the Holy Spirit doesn't have.

If you think you are going to heaven with a lack of obedience, think again. Obedience is the centerpiece of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Every page of the bible teaches us to be obedient. If you will not be obedient to what Jesus wants you to do, you will not be with him for EL.

Angels with wings were depicted as a way to provide mobility. There are angels with wings. But so far, the angels sent to men from God have not had wings. We know that because the men that saw them have not mentioned wings.

It is still taught that in order to become a God, you need an exalted body of flesh and bone and spirit.

The Holy Spirit will in time have a body of flesh and bone and spirit just like the other 2 members of the Godhead.