Is the Rapture Deception?

[YeshuaFan]

None of that says that anyone is going to escape any sort of tribulation.

Paul sees that we were appointed not to be under wrath, but salvation!

 

[HTacianas]

Didn't say it did. It's a post-trib pre-wrath rapture.

The Rapture, as a protestant tradition, teaches that Jesus will return in secret and remove all Christians from the earth prior to any tribulation. That is the subject of this thread.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Then who are his people?

Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

That would be the redeemed and saved that came out from the great tribulation

 

[CodyFaith]

You've been reading too much Hislop.

Nah, but I do pray for wisdom and truth a lot. Had to google who Hislop was... no idea who he was, couldn't care less to see man's opinion of scripture, but instead pray for wisdom and take what others say with a grain of salt.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I feel that the idea of the rapture, is a deception given to us by the enemy, because when the world is destroyed due to our transgressions and unholiness, those believing in and waiting on the rapture will not know what's going on. They would've been expecting to be taken out before these things happen, and then their faith will fail them, because they weren't prepared to have to go through this time of trouble. We even have the words of our Savior describing that time. His children are wheat, and the devil's children are tares.

It is dispensation theology introduced by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century. A majority of Christians follow his teachings however there are a few coming out of this , as seemingly you are. It takes time to do the research and undo the deep rooted theology. I will pray that God strengthens you as you journey towards the truth.
There is one rapture, if there are any people left, and it will be at the very end "in a twinkling of an eye".
Blessings

1 Corinthians 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

 

[YeshuaFan]

The Rapture, as a protestant tradition, teaches that Jesus will return in secret and remove all Christians from the earth prior to any tribulation. That is the subject of this thread.

No, prior to the Great tribulation, a specific time period at end of this Age!

 

[FireDragon76]

Except when Jesus said it would happen.

Except Jesus actually didn't. Jesus is speaking of the removal of the wicked in Matthew 24, not the "rapture" as many American evangelicals understand it.

 

[Southernscotty]

Then who are his people?

Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Revelation 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Revelation 19:1
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The believers, The Apostle John with his spiritual eyes are seeing these multitudes in heaven. He is also hearing them. We have to separate the Bride from those who are the sealed Jews and those who are also "being saved" through the great tribulation.
Those sealed Jews will bring several people to salvation, But it will be difficult because the Holy Spirit will not be restraining evil at this time

 

[bcbsr]

The Rapture, as a protestant tradition, teaches that Jesus will return in secret and remove all Christians from the earth prior to any tribulation. That is the subject of this thread.

Wrong on both counts. You've been misinformed.

 

[CodyFaith]

Except Jesus actually didn't. Jesus is speaking of the removal of the wicked in Matthew 24, not the "rapture" as many American evangelicals understand it.

When does this removal take place in this view? At the end of tribulation? Not clicking the video, just another "scholar".

 

[timewerx]

Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Sounds like a zombypocalypse!!!

 

[Devin P]

Remember we have to rightly divide the Word of God. 2 Tim 2:15
You are taking some scripture that were for the Jews which will be the sealed 144 thousand.
Please read Matt 15:24 and see that Jesus was talking to Jews.
We are under a new covenant as gentiles and as such under the ministry of reconciliation by grace through faith with Paul is our apostle.

Well, Jews, are only 1/12th of Israel. Israel consists of 11 other tribes in addition to Jews. God cast off 10 of them due to their disobedience, and He intends to bring them back again into covenant with them in the last days. We are in those last days now. So the verses you're saying are to be only about Jews, that idea, came about by men's doctrine. No where in scripture does it say that certain things are only for jews. Except of course when you read certain prophets and there are punishments for the jews because a prophet was told to go speak of impending doom to the jews because of their disobedience. Other than that though, the prophecy I mentioned to you, was regarding God's chosen. Of which, some are jews, some are levites, some are reubenites, some are zebulites, etc. Many different tribes, of which you are one. Which, only God knows, but if we're His chosen, and we're not jewish, we will be assigned a tribal allotment after His return, if we prove faithful.

Regarding the verse you mentioned in 2 Timothy, what is the word of God? It's bread, it's meat. What did Jesus instruct His disciples to do with the bread and the fish? To divide it amongst those that were hungry, that needed to be fed. It's not talking about divide verses to talk about gentiles and jews, it's talking about how we're to act to those we're instructing and being examples to. We have to act as scripture tells us to act, so that we can feed those that desire to be fed, so that after being fed with truth our actions can be fruitful, leading them to the truth so that they can be saved.

 

[FireDragon76]

When does this removal take place in this view? At the end of tribulation? Not clicking the video, just another "scholar".

Jordan Cooper is a respected Lutheran theologian and scholar of church history.

It's difficult for me to know how to answer you because I reject that entire eschatological paradigm. Chiliasm in particular is heretical and has been rejected by the Church, so I see apocalyptic literature mostly as symbolism.

 

[CodyFaith]

Jordan Cooper is a respected Lutheran theologian and scholar of church history.

It's difficult for me to know how to answer you because I reject that entire eschatological paradigm.

Just another wrong person in my eyes. Anyway, it's the church that is raptured. But conveniently those who are left on the earth will say it was the wicked... because who wants to be proven to be a false Christian when the rapture happens? Not many. So this will be another (of many) convenient teachings and theories.

 

[HTacianas]

Wrong on both counts. You've been misinformed.

"Pre-tribulation rapture theology originated in the eighteenth century, with the Puritan preachers Increase and Cotton Mather, and was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby[12][13] and the Plymouth Brethren,[14] and further in the United States by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century."

Rapture - Wikipedia

From the OP:

"I feel that the idea of the rapture, is a deception given to us by the enemy, because when the world is destroyed due to our transgressions and unholiness, those believing in and waiting on the rapture will not know what's going on. They would've been expecting to be taken out before these things happen, and then their faith will fail them, because they weren't prepared to have to go through this time of trouble."

 

[tranquil]

All throughout the prophets, we have them warning God's children to hide and keep themselves shut up until the trouble passes.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
Isa 24:2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
Isa 24:3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Isa 24:6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
Isa 24:13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is
done.

(Basically it's saying that the world will have few people left in it, because of the great destruction God will cause to be upon the earth in the last days, because of their transgressions. Really read this entire chapter, because all of it applies to what I'm talking about, I just didn't want to link an entire chapter in here)

I feel that the idea of the rapture, is a deception given to us by the enemy, because when the world is destroyed due to our transgressions and unholiness, those believing in and waiting on the rapture will not know what's going on. They would've been expecting to be taken out before these things happen, and then their faith will fail them, because they weren't prepared to have to go through this time of trouble. We even have the words of our Savior describing that time. His children are wheat, and the devil's children are tares.

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:40 Just as weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at end of the age.
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather from his kingdom everything that causes others to sin and those who practice lawlessness
Mat 13:42 and they will throw them into a blazing furnace. In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 THEN the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father's kingdom. Let the person who has ears listen!”

Mat 13:49 That is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will go out, cull out the evil people FROM AMONG the righteous ones,
Mat 13:50 and will throw them into a blazing furnace. In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Here we see Jesus saying that His chosen, will still be on earth. That the unrighteous will be taken from among them. So we see that, for example, the verse where two will be in a field, one taken the other left, you want to be the one that is left. You don't want to be taken, because to be taken, means you're not a wheat. Because as Matt 13:30 says, tares will be taken first, not wheat.

I agree, the 'whisked away' rapture is a deception promoted by Satan. People will be physically gathered (the good & the bad). The mark of the beast is the means by which the tares are 'bound'.

 

[Devin P]

Then why is the church not mentioned after chapter four of revelation until the end of Revelation? It is because the church left, The Bridegroom came for His bride and we are "caught up" To meet Him in the air.

Well no. All of the entire bible, is talking about the "church". The "church" and Israel, are one in the same. God's people are only one group. Jews, Israel, the "church", whatever you want to call it, are the same group. This is why Paul says this:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

As I said in an earlier post, Jews, are only one tribe of God's inheritance. Israel, was originally 12 tribes. But, due to their disobedience, God split them in two. The northern house (10 tribes, Israel) and the southern house 2 tribes (Judah).

Israel (the northern house) and Judah (the southern house) were constantly disobedient, so God finally cast out, as He said He would in Leviticus 26, Israel for their disobedience, into the world. They were to forget who they were and blend in with the world, until a day came when finally He would whisper to them in their hearts, cause them to remember who they were, return again to His ways, and one day, He promises to bring them back into the land Israel.

He wished to scatter Judah as well, but He couldn't, because He promised in Genesis 48 to bring about a savior through the line of Judah, otherwise He would've scattered them too, because He said that they were worse than Israel. For Jesus' sake, Judah is still here. Passover and such, today, is seen as Jewish, but it's not. It's a feast of God, given to His children. But, because Israel was scattered abroad, we see it as Jewish, because they're the only tribes we see still doing those feasts. But, all the verses about Israel, are meant to be talking about not only the Jews, but also anyone who believes on Him.

The concept that we have to be Jewish, to be a part of Israel, was and is a tradition of man, that God actually punished Judah for creating. He never intended for this to be so. He wanted anyone from the nations that would submit to Him and place their faith in Him. So, if you believe in Jesus as your Savior, you are part of the fold of God, you are part of the Israel of God.

 

[Devin P]

Except when Jesus said it would happen.

But yeah. Besides then.

Where did Jesus say there would be a rapture, where His children would be taken from out of the world, leaving the unrighteous to remain on earth?

 

[redleghunter]

The "rapture" is an idea that has only been around for around 150 years. It has never been a teaching of Christianity.

“Caught up” as in the Church was a very early concept. However, associated as happening at the or just before the culmination of all things.

Which in modern terminology would be a post tribulation rapture.

 

[CodyFaith]

Where did Jesus say there would be a rapture, where His children would be taken from out of the world, leaving the unrighteous to remain on earth?

I posted it on page 1.