The Jews to be kept safe during the Great Tribulation

Billy Evmur

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Oh yes...God says so.

There are more than one references to the coming time of trouble in scripture but only once does it go by the term "the time of Jacob's trouble" This is to be found in the 30th chapter of Jeremiah...what does God say about the "time of Jacob's trouble" the great tribulation as it relates to Israel?

2. Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel saying. 5. For thus saith the Lord, we have heard a voice of trembling, of fear and not peace.

6.Ask ye now and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins as a woman in travail and all faces are turned to paleness?

7. Alas for that day is great so that none is like it. It is even the time of Jacob's trouble BUT...but he shall be saved out of it.

8. For it shall come to pass in that day saith the Lord of hosts that I will break his yoke from off thy neck and will burst thy bonds and strangers will no more feed themselves of him. 9. but they shall serve the Lord their God and David their King whom I will raise up for them.

10. Therefore FEAR THOU NOT o My servant Jacob saith the Lord, NEITHER BE DISMAYED o Israel for lo I WILL SAVE THEE FROM AFAR and thy seed from the land of their captivity and Jacob shall return and SHALL BE IN REST and BE QUIET and NONE SHALL MAKE HIM AFRAID.

11 For I am with thee saith the Lord TO SAVE THEE, though I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have scattered thee yet will I not make a full end of you but I will correct thee in measure and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

God says it is not the man who travails with child [Israel is God's firstborn son] but it is the woman [the church is the Bride]

It is called Jacob's trouble because God has a quarrel with the nations about how they have treated the Jews during their long diaspora, the trouble is for the nations and the church is in the nations.
 

keras

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As your verse 11 above states, God will punish the Jews for their apostasy and sins and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
That remnant will join with their Christian brethren and every faithful Christian will live in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, +
 
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BABerean2

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There are more than one references to the coming time of trouble in scripture but only once does it go by the term "the time of Jacob's trouble" This is to be found in the 30th chapter of Jeremiah...what does God say about the "time of Jacob's trouble" the great tribulation as it relates to Israel?

What was happening to the nation of Israel near the time that Jeremiah wrote this passage?

.
 
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Billy Evmur

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As your verse 11 above states, God will punish the Jews for their apostasy and sins and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
That remnant will join with their Christian brethren and every faithful Christian will live in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, +

It doesn't say anything of the sort. Paul teaches the remnant with regards to the Jewish church...

The purpose of the remnant in Elijah's day was to Israel back to God. Isaiah says if God had not saved a remnant Israel would have fared as Sodom and Gomorrah...but Israel did not fare as S&G, they have never fared as other nations fared.

Jeremiah 30.11 states that God will not leave them unpunished, they are to be punished in measure.

Zech 14 which confirms that when Jerusalem is invaded, the women will be raped and their houses rifled and half the city of Jerusalem will be taken captive [nobody killed] Then God will fight against the nations. On Israel's behalf.

There is more confirmation in Dan.12.1 specifically speaking about the time of trouble at that time Michael the great cherub who protects Israel will stand up and Israel will be delivered.

Accept God's word...Israel will be saved.

God's punishment of Israel was that they would be chucked out of their land, He didn't say anything about poking them into cattle trucks to be insidiously murdered and all the other pogroms that have been waged against the Jews...those days are over, God is no longer scattering His ancient people He is gathering them.
 
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Billy Evmur

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What was happening to the nation of Israel near the time that Jeremiah wrote this passage?

.
Jeremiah 30 is not concerned with what was happening in Jeremiah's time for God said to Jeremiah...30.2. write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book...so it was for a later time. We have not experienced the great trouble, greater than any other trouble yet.
 
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keras

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Accept God's word...Israel will be saved.
The Jewish people have usurped the name of Israel for their State.
They represent only 2 of the 12 tribes and many prophesies tell of their Judgement and only a remnant will be saved. Roman 9:27

The Israel that will be saved, are the Israelites of God, the faithful Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language. You accept that truth.
 
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Billy Evmur

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The Jewish people have usurped the name of Israel for their State.
They represent only 2 of the 12 tribes and many prophesies tell of their Judgement and only a remnant will be saved. Roman 9:27

The Israel that will be saved, are the Israelites of God, the faithful Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language. You accept that truth.

No I do not accept your opinion. Why do you quote Ro. 9? why not quote Ro 11? "and so all Israel will be saved"

The jews in Israel are the same Jews who Hitler tried to destroyed...he didn't mistake them...they look like Jews don't they? they also sound like Jews. No race of people have ever been able to replicate that shibboleth, that click of the tongue whereby the Jews themselves recognise each other.

The teaching of Paul is not that we have replaced Israel but that we have been made co-heirs and fellow citizens with them of their commonwealth. partakers of their covenants and promises yet without the law and ordinances...all in Christ. ephesians chapter 2-3.

We have teaches Paul been grafted into their vine.

They have not stumbled so as to fall.
 
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BABerean2

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Accept God's word...Israel will be saved.

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.



Rom 11:24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;

Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite branches and Gentile branches grafted together into the same tree.

The manner of salvation in Romans 11:26 is through being grafted back into the tree, through faith in Christ, as found in Romans 11:24.



There is no Plan B of salvation outside of the Church.
.
 
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Billy Evmur

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The olive tree is not the new covenant church, it was their olive tree and some branches have been grafted out so that we might be grafted in. So make up your mind is it just the remnant or is it all Israel?

Is their fall only temporary until the fulness of the Gentiles come in or is it permanent?

The purpose of the remnant was to turn all Israel back to God.

Paul says that at the present time they are rejected...but they will be accepted, at the present time they are diminished but they will attain to the fulness.

It is not the remnant who were rejected who will be accepted it is the unbelieving Jews, it is not the remnant [who are the apostles] who were diminished but who will attain to the fulness but the unbelieving Jews.

Those who were grafted out are the ones who will be grafted back in.
 
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Billy Evmur

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After warning Christians not to boast themselves against the Jews Paul teaches this

As concerning the gospel they are enemies FOR YOUR SAKE but as concerning the election they are beloved for the father's sake

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

They are still elect, they are still beloved...the election is by grace not by any deed of righteousness. As with us so with them.
 
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jgr

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No I do not accept your opinion. Why do you quote Ro. 9? why not quote Ro 11? "and so all Israel will be saved"

The jews in Israel are the same Jews who Hitler tried to destroyed...he didn't mistake them...they look like Jews don't they? they also sound like Jews. No race of people have ever been able to replicate that shibboleth, that click of the tongue whereby the Jews themselves recognise each other.

The teaching of Paul is not that we have replaced Israel but that we have been made co-heirs and fellow citizens with them of their commonwealth. partakers of their covenants and promises yet without the law and ordinances...all in Christ. ephesians chapter 2-3.

We have teaches Paul been grafted into their vine.

They have not stumbled so as to fall.

Here is God's chosen "race" from the beginning of covenant history:

Genesis 17:12
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Reconfirmed here:

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

God has only ever had one chosen "race", and it has never had anything to do with the flesh.

It is the spiritual race of the faithful and obedient.
 
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jgr

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Is that so....salvation my brother is of the Jews. No Jews no Jesus. He is King of the Jews
Salvation is "of the Jews". Jesus is "of the Jews". Therefore, salvation is of Jesus.

He was referring to Himself.
 
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BABerean2

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The olive tree is not the new covenant church, it was their olive tree and some branches have been grafted out so that we might be grafted in. So make up your mind is it just the remnant or is it all Israel?

Is their fall only temporary until the fulness of the Gentiles come in or is it permanent?

The purpose of the remnant was to turn all Israel back to God.

Paul says that at the present time they are rejected...but they will be accepted, at the present time they are diminished but they will attain to the fulness.

It is not the remnant who were rejected who will be accepted it is the unbelieving Jews, it is not the remnant [who are the apostles] who were diminished but who will attain to the fulness but the unbelieving Jews.

Those who were grafted out are the ones who will be grafted back in.

Your answer is found in Romans 11:1-5.
Paul reveals that there were two groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah.
There were the Israelite Baal worshippers, and there was the faithful "remnant" of 7,000 who remained faithful to God.
Paul said there was also a "remnant" during his time.

In Luke 21:24-28 we find that "the times of the Gentiles" ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts chapter 2.
On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.
The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Oh yes...God says so.

There are more than one references to the coming time of trouble in scripture but only once does it go by the term "the time of Jacob's trouble" This is to be found in the 30th chapter of Jeremiah...what does God say about the "time of Jacob's trouble" the great tribulation as it relates to Israel?
If I remember correctly, didn't Yahweh allow the first 3 plagues to affect both the Egyptians and Hebrews?
The first 3 could be considered a "tribulation" for them

The first three were:
1. Water Turned to Blood
2. The Plague of Frogs
3. The Plague of Lice

The rest of the 10 used only against the Egyptians.
Exodus 8

21 That if there is no thou sending away My people, behold! sending in thee and in thy servants and in thy people and in thy houses, the swarms/6157 `arob. And houses of Egypt are full of the swarms/6157 `arob, and even the ground which they are on her.
22 ‘And I have separated in that day the land of Goshen, in which My people are staying, that the swarms is not there, so that thou knowest that I [am] Jehovah in the midst of the land, 23 and I have put a division between My people and thy people:
to-morrow is this sign.’
24 And Jehovah doth so, and the grievous swarms entereth the house of Pharaoh, and the house of his servants, and in all the land of Egypt the land is corrupted from the presence of the swarms.

[Coincidentally, there are 7 vials/bowls of wrath showing against Sodom/Jerusalem in Revelation]
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt
Revelation 17:1
And there came one of the seven messengers, who were having the seven vials, and he spake with me, saying to me, 'Come, I will shew to thee the judgment of the great harlot, who is sitting upon the many waters,
Revelation 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the Sanctuary saying to the seven Messengers, 'Go away! and pour out! the vials of the wrath of God to the land;'
 
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keras

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They are still elect, they are still beloved...the election is by grace not by any deed of righteousness.
The Jewish people rejected Jesus and so God rejected them.
Matthew 21:33-43 ….The Kingdom will be taken from you and given to a people who bear the proper fruit. Who bears 'fruit"? Christians do; Galatians 5:22-24

You quoted:..... and so all Israel shall be saved. Romans 11:26
Blindly thinking this applies to Jewish Israel, shows your serious lack of understanding of what the New Testament is all about, it is how salvation is extended to the Gentiles and in the preceding verse: Romans 11:25, the Gentile Christians will come into Israel in their full strength, means THEY BECOME ISRAELITES, the faithful Overcomers for God, the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

God will save and protect His faithful people, but the ungodly, apostate, arrogant, LGBT, etc, people, be they Jews or any other nation, will be punished on the Lord's Day of wrath. Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, +
 
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Billy Evmur

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The Jewish people rejected Jesus and so God rejected them.
Matthew 21:33-43 ….The Kingdom will be taken from you and given to a people who bear the proper fruit. Who bears 'fruit"? Christians do; Galatians 5:22-24

You quoted:..... and so all Israel shall be saved. Romans 11:26
Blindly thinking this applies to Jewish Israel, shows your serious lack of understanding of what the New Testament is all about, it is how salvation is extended to the Gentiles and in the preceding verse: Romans 11:25, the Gentile Christians will come into Israel in their full strength, means THEY BECOME ISRAELITES, the faithful Overcomers for God, the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

God will save and protect His faithful people, but the ungodly, apostate, arrogant, LGBT, etc, people, be they Jews or any other nation, will be punished on the Lord's Day of wrath. Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, +

So salvation has been extended to the Gentiles, well done you got that far. Tell me HOW was it extended to us, was it through Israel's obedience or was it through their disobedience?

Was it by sin or mistake or was it by the predeterminate will of God?

So even when the Jews committed their most heineous sin they were doing God's will, I wish I could belong to such a people, of course I do through Christ.

To be chosen of God regardless of whether I do right or wrong.

And this blindness, this hardening of heart which Paul says has come upon the Jews was it permanent did Paul say or temporary? what did Paul teach?

How long will this hardness, this blindness last? until the fulness of the Gentiles come in. So all Israel will be saved.

Will you dispute Paul?

Are YOU going to judge who will be damned on that day?

Have you murdered and will not be judged? have you committed adultery? are these not damnable sins as well as homosexuality? no-one has called YOU apostate, yet by the judgement of the One who will judge on that day, you were angry and so counted as a murderer, how many people have you been angry with since you were saved? what other foul and damnable sins have you committed? God had mercy upon you, you say you repented.

You should say God gave you grace to repent.

Mercy
 
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Billy Evmur

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If I remember correctly, didn't Yahweh allow the first 3 plagues to affect both the Egyptians and Hebrews?
The first 3 could be considered a "tribulation" for them

The first three were:
1. Water Turned to Blood
2. The Plague of Frogs
3. The Plague of Lice

The rest of the 10 used only against the Egyptians.
Exodus 8

21 That if there is no thou sending away My people, behold! sending in thee and in thy servants and in thy people and in thy houses, the swarms/6157 `arob. And houses of Egypt are full of the swarms/6157 `arob, and even the ground which they are on her.
22 ‘And I have separated in that day the land of Goshen, in which My people are staying, that the swarms is not there, so that thou knowest that I [am] Jehovah in the midst of the land, 23 and I have put a division between My people and thy people:
to-morrow is this sign.’
24 And Jehovah doth so, and the grievous swarms entereth the house of Pharaoh, and the house of his servants, and in all the land of Egypt the land is corrupted from the presence of the swarms.

[Coincidentally, there are 7 vials/bowls of wrath showing against Sodom/Jerusalem in Revelation]
Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

Hello little lamb

No you are quite wrong, the Jews were protected from all the plagues.

The doctrine of Jeremiah and Daniel is that during the time of the Great Tribulation God will keep Israel safe, they will be at peace, at rest and none shall make them afraid. At that time Michael the mighty cherub who has the care of Israel will stand up and they will be delivered.

If you have eyes to see it that's WHY they are now being gathered and will yet be gathered.

The church is not gathered until the end, or the mid part of the Great Tribulation.
 
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Billy Evmur

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Your answer is found in Romans 11:1-5.
Paul reveals that there were two groups of Israelites during the time of Elijah.
There were the Israelite Baal worshippers, and there was the faithful "remnant" of 7,000 who remained faithful to God.
Paul said there was also a "remnant" during his time.

In Luke 21:24-28 we find that "the times of the Gentiles" ends at the future Second Coming of Christ.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts chapter 2.
On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.
The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.

.

This is to misunderstand the purpose of the remnant which was to the whole nation back to God.

In saying that the church is the Israel of God, which is not in dispute, you cannot then conflate the spiritual Israel with the natural Israel and apply the promises of Jeremiah 31 to the church.

The promises in Jere.31 are so far different to anything ever promised to the church.

We are not promised lands and vineyards, we are not to be gathered from the north country or the ends of the earth to go up to the house of Jacob.

There are 2 promises, 2 inheritances, one is heaven the other is the earth, the land.

We are definitely promised heaven, the Jews are definitely promised the earth. If God now reneges on His promise to the Jews that they should inherit the earth, why would He not renege on His promise to us?

God will never renege.
 
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