What can be done to avoid civil war?

Light of the East

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I agree. But:

Can't even start to have a dialogue when the other side thinks you're lying all the time.

Yeah, well, I'm not a right-winger or a political junkie, but occasionally I listen to right-wing radio. It's just too easy for the right-wing DJ's to use the Demoncrats own words against them to show that they are (along with the faux media) lying through their teeth.

PS Rethuglicans lie every bit as much as Demoncrats (remember George Bush's lies that started the 17 year debacle/war in the Middle East?). I just posted that to respond to what I considered a smarty-pants response by FireDragon 76 and the recent circus regarding the Supreme Court nomination.
 
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Light of the East

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Pray for your enemies, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile, return good for evil.

Well, yes. Unfortunately, that would mean that our non-Christian nation would actually have to do something it has never done before - actually living the Christian life.

Nope.

Short of a real revival of truth, it ain't gonna happen.
 
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pat34lee

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A day where women who are sexually assaulted are taken seriously would be a good start.

And a day where last minute smears without merit
are not brought forward would be even better.
 
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Light of the East

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You have no evidence for this.

OTOH we have scads if evidence that Mr. Trump is an accomplished liar. Scads.

When you get your head screwed on straight, look up all the evidence that Judge Kavanaugh was the victim of a well-defined, vicious assault based on nothing more than a fictitious story. It's out there for anyone who wants to see it. You just don't want to see it.

And yes, the Rethuglicans are every bit as bad as the Demoncrats (you get the sense I spit on both political parties as world-class liars?) Think George Bush and his lies that dragged us into a non-stop war, very profitable for the corporations in America, very bad for the people in the Middle East.
 
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pat34lee

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Time. I believe the Trimp demographic is generally older and almost exclusively white. As immigration and old age take their toll, things will normalize.

You mean drop off the left end of the political spectrum
due to the loss of conservatives.
That is nothing like normal. It is pretty much the opposite.
Pray it doesn't happen. If it does and you get your wish,
you will find out how bad things can get, just like Venezuela.
 
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Light of the East

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I agree, but it takes both sides to stop calling each other names. Pro-life people need to stop yelling murderer and other offense language. Stop with billboards with this language and photos of supposedly aborted late term babies. Stop telling people they are hell bound, etc. Open, peaceful, respectful dialogue doesn't include these things.

Supposedly late term abortions??

Good grief, what planet are you living on???

Does the name Kermit Gosnell mean anything to you????
 
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childeye 2

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Well, yes. Unfortunately, that would mean that our non-Christian nation would actually have to do something it has never done before - actually living the Christian life.

Nope.

Short of a real revival of truth, it ain't gonna happen.
Respectfully, if we're not gathering, we're scattering.
 
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Silmarien

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Yeah, well, I'm not a right-winger or a political junkie, but occasionally I listen to right-wing radio. It's just too easy for the right-wing DJ's to use the Demoncrats own words against them to show that they are (along with the faux media) lying through their teeth.

PS Rethuglicans lie every bit as much as Demoncrats (remember George Bush's lies that started the 17 year debacle/war in the Middle East?). I just posted that to respond to what I considered a smarty-pants response by FireDragon 76 and the recent circus regarding the Supreme Court nomination.

I'm not happy about what happened with the confirmation hearing. I'm against the politicization of sexual abuse and feel like the Democrats are playing a manipulation game in the aftermath. I'll vote for them anyway, though, because if they get too hypocritical, the base will get rid of them.

But you can't talk about any of the issues that have modern progressives so riled up without people pulling the snowflake card or telling you that you're making things up. This is not good for dialogue, and it's become institutionalized on the right.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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It looks like there is division in the US. Some violence also.

Could anything be done to stop it?
If there is a civil war, will the loser accept defeat? What are the options? It matters that if there is fighting, it best be prevented, but if it can't be prevented, how can it be stopped? The bad ones are the neo communists, people who actually sympathize with NK and the old USSR. Mao and aspects of Nazism. They even do not like democracy. Putting obstacles in the way of Trump and other governors they do not agree with, like a tantrum. They will not let the system go unless they get what they want. "If I can't win, no one can."
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I agree, but it takes both sides to stop calling each other names. Pro-life people need to stop yelling murderer and other offense language. Stop with billboards with this language and photos of supposedly aborted late term babies. Stop telling people they are hell bound, etc. Open, peaceful, respectful dialogue doesn't include these things.
Both sides need to stop doing this.

You are right that pro-life people should not be approaching abortion advocates this way.

Nor should anyone be screaming at anyone who disagrees with them. Disagreement is NOT "hate". These are not synonymous terms, as rational people understand.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I'm not happy about what happened with the confirmation hearing. I'm against the politicization of sexual abuse and feel like the Democrats are playing a manipulation game in the aftermath. I'll vote for them anyway, though, because if they get too hypocritical, the base will get rid of them.

But you can't talk about any of the issues that have modern progressives so riled up without people pulling the snowflake card or telling you that you're making things up. This is not good for dialogue, and it's become institutionalized on the right.
It is institutionalized on the left too. You can't even discuss same sex marriage, for example, without getting screamed at if you don't happen to have the same views.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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A day where women who are sexually assaulted are taken seriously would be a good start.

A day when people are still innocent until proven guilty in a court with a jury of peers as opposed to public opinion would be nice....oh wait that is what happened, nvm.
 
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Hank77

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Whoa, we have gone off coarse from my first post. Follow the trail...:)

Nothing's going to repair this damage when those responsible aren't open to having a dialogue. They want to act out- having a dialogue is the last thing that they want. Violence can only be avoided when both sides are willing to speak before drawing blood.

I agree, but it takes both sides to stop calling each other names. Pro-life people need to stop yelling murderer and other offense language. Stop with billboards with this language and photos of supposedly aborted late term babies. Stop telling people they are hell bound, etc. Open, peaceful, respectful dialogue doesn't include these things.

My post was about having dialogue and what I see is part of the reason we don't have dialogue.
I'm well aware that people let words bring them to violence- the pro-choice guy kicking the pro-life demonstrator proves that. But at the same time, people also use their speech to hurt others (obviously). Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Neither should happen- but what's easier? To restrain your tongue or to restrain your fists?
Do you see what I'm getting at?
 
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Hank77

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Supposedly late term abortions??

Good grief, what planet are you living on???

Does the name Kermit Gosnell mean anything to you????
I didn't say that late term abortions don't happen. Try reading my post again.
 
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Silmarien

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You mean drop off the left end of the political spectrum
due to the loss of conservatives.
That is nothing like normal. It is pretty much the opposite.
Pray it doesn't happen. If it does and you get your wish,
you will find out how bad things can get, just like Venezuela.

Latinos tend to lean socially conservative, though in a different sense than the Trump crowd. More fiscally liberal, but if they're fleeing failed states like Venezuela, they're more likely to be critical of socialism than American liberals.

I don't think conservativism is going anywhere. It should get more diverse in the coming decades, though.

It is institutionalized on the left too. You can't even discuss same sex marriage, for example, without getting screamed at if you don't happen to have the same views.

Well, the first thing to ask is how precisely you're approaching the question of same-sex marriage. If a conservative can approach it respectfully and listen to respectful objections from the opposition, then discussion is theoretically possible. But this seldom happens.

I won't pretend that there aren't problems on the left. Even as a liberal, you'll get screamed at for not having the same exact views. Both sides have some serious issues with moral accountability, and neither really wants to admit it.
 
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zippy2006

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Can't even start to have a dialogue when the other side thinks you're lying all the time.

You can see the flip side in post #3, which apparently occasioned it.

It seems to me that the key is to stop talking about "the other side" monolithically. The political extremists are incapable of dialogue (and rational thought) and it has always been that way even if the proportions are now shifting. The moderates from the different sides are the ones who dialogue, and I see no other way forward.

My theory is that social media polarizes the sides by creating echo chambers and highlighting the opposing extremists. And it's natural to attack the weakest point, so even intelligent political commentators inevitably add to this. A core problem, which seems to me to be especially present on the Left, is the elevation of pathos far above logos. Such an emphasis precludes dialogue.

Another issue: there needs to be more representative media coverage. The Right is underrepresented. I think this creates all sorts of problems and I hope it gets sorted. Kudos to the Left for mobilizing into those channels more effectively, but it's not a healthy long-term state for the country.
 
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dqhall

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It seems unavoidable. A republican senator's wife was just sent a graphic text of a beheading, and their loved ones' addresses have been leaked. Remember that just a week or so ago, a handful of republicans had their home addresses and phone numbers leaked on wikipedia, and the doxxer had threatened to leak their childrens' health information as well. A GOP headquarters was vandalized. And I know that this last case was in Canada, but a pro life demonstrator was "round-house" kicked by a pro-choice demonstrator.

Nothing's going to repair this damage when those responsible aren't open to having a dialogue. They want to act out- having a dialogue is the last thing that they want. Violence can only be avoided when both sides are willing to speak before drawing blood.
Dr. Ford got so many death threats, she had to move out of her house. The Russian hackers broke into the DNC and published the address and phone number information of leading Democrats online. They were looking for dirt they could use to embarrass Democrats with. Trump cheered them on. At Charlottesville a Republican Alt-Right protester killed one and injured 15.

I was a kid growing up in the DC area during the Vietnam War era anti-war protests. Young men did not want to be drafted to fight and get killed for some corporation's Vietnamese rubber plantation. They were in the streets loud and carrying signs. One time they tried to topple the national Christmas tree, but the police stopped them. Another time 100,000 protesters marched on the Pentagon and tried to "levitate it," by metaphysics.

The nation was divided about the war, but did not turn their guns on each other. Eventually the war was over. The US military evacuated leaving behind valuable weapons and equipment. Years later some veterans returned to Vietnam to help clear mine fields. Senator McCain went back to try to normalize relations between the US and Vietnam. Some Vietnamese who fled Vietnam at the end of the war are living in America.
 
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FireDragon76

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I won't pretend that there aren't problems on the left. Even as a liberal, you'll get screamed at for not having the same exact views. Both sides have some serious issues with moral accountability, and neither really wants to admit it.

I guess our life experiences differ because I haven't encountered that much of this sort of thing, compared to how much evangelicals demonize progressives and liberals.
 
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