Canada vaccine awareness programs

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I am not an anti-vaxxer. I even specified to avoid the spite that my children were vaccinated, but was met with an unreasonable attitude from people on this thread. People are blinded to assume that all concerns about vaccines relate to autism. A lot seem think that any open mindedness to the fact that vaccines aren't risk free makes one stupid.

I rated your post highly not because you're unwilling to talk more about vaccines - any lack of further intelligent and thoughtful posts from you will make this thread that much poorer - but because it is very true that many vaccination proponents (here at least) seem unable to think critically, and do their cause no service at all.

If all the vaccination proponents in the world were as level-minded and clever as you, I might even be convinced to go out and get my shots... (not likely, but I'd certainly think twice about it).

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

always on the fence about the flu shot
recently, on our news, they said 80,000 people died from the flu last year

This is fake news, I've read elsewhere. When you interrogate the stats, it apparently turns out these people were mostly aged people on life support, tiny babies with other health complications etc. It'd actually be interesting to know how many people who supposedly die from the 'flu' had some sort of vaccination ('flu' shot or otherwise) in the year or two leading up to their deaths.

Your analogy of Tobacco use in third countries is inapposite. Tobacco use is completely voluntary and not at all the same as forced vaccination of all beginning at birth. Smoking is always bad - especially for susceptible people. Vaccines are always bad - for susceptible people. Perhaps that's the analogy you mean.

Probably he meant that just as many doctors once endorsed smoking and stated it was healthy for one, only later to be proved embarrassingly wrong, most doctors today endorse vaccinating as healthy for one, but will later be proved embarrassingly wrong.

 

[Sam91]

I rated your post highly not because you're unwilling to talk more about vaccines - any lack of further intelligent and thoughtful posts from you will make this thread that much poorer - but because it is very true that many vaccination proponents (here at least) seem unable to think critically, and do their cause no service at all.

If all the vaccination proponents in the world were as level-minded and clever as you, I might even be convinced to go out and get my shots... (not likely, but I'd certainly think twice about it).

I think its the next gen shots might be worrisome. The current studies on animals are rather interesting but could have unforeseen consequences.

If the conversation was rational now it would be less worrying. Who knows in which direction society is going but there may be a time when some accept being injected with the wrong things and we might face some rather interesting but not so good consequences.

Which is why it is unwise to allow governments to mandate compulsary vaccination. Laws change, get adapted. We do not know the direction society will take but looking at what the peoples of the US and other countries are willing to accept is surprising.

Fifteen years ago I do not think the people would have imagined the shenanigans with which the current president gets away with, while the rest of the world watches in amazement. There doesn't seem to be much left in the way of sanity.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

I think its the next gen shots might be worrisome. The current studies on animals are rather interesting but could have unforeseen consequences.

If the conversation was rational now it would be less worrying. Who knows in which direction society is going but there may be a time when some accept being injected with the wrong things and we might face some rather interesting but not so good consequences.

I've read - not from the best sources - that the next generation shots will influence genetics. So to me, this would seem to have the ability to really mess with people. There is also talk about a vaccine that can "cure" religion, in addition to RFID chips being insertable via the process.

The bible says that the 'life is in the blood', so unless I have a really good reason to become involved with these, it's something I will shy away from.

 

[Sam91]

I've read - not from the best sources - that the next generation shots will influence genetics. So to me, this would seem to have the ability to really mess with people. There is also talk about a vaccine that can "cure" religion, in addition to RFID chips being insertable via the process.

The bible says that the 'life is in the blood', so unless I have a really good reason to become involved with these, it's something I will shy away from.

Read the actual studies too. They are more fruitful, especially when read with a sober mind, rather than faith in scientists.

 

[Doctor.Sphinx]

Read the actual studies too. They are more fruitful, especially when read with a sober mind, rather than faith in scientists.

I find often the studies are hidden behind requiring subscriptions etc. Trying to make money off of those who simply want to refute their lies. But on occassion, I do have the odd browse of those which are made freely available.

 

[Sam91]

I find often the studies are hidden behind requiring subscriptions etc. Trying to make money off of those who simply want to refute their lies. But on occassion, I do have the odd browse of those which are made freely available.

I find that too. But some are free.

 

[Saricharity]

why would it be a concern? Children get many times the ingredients of a vaccine just in their daily lives. A kid playing in the background will get more bacteria and germs in his body then all the vaccines combined. The vaccine schedule is based upon when the child is most susceptable to it and most likly to encounter, changing the schudule puts the child at risk for the very diseases the vaccine is supposed to prevent.

Kids playing in the playground are not being injected with those bacteria and germs. They are coming by them naturally. Therefore their bodies will be able to use their natural lines of defence to protect them. Vaccination bypasses that. There is no comparison.
Changing the schedule allows parents to discover if their child has any unknown allergies to vaccine ingredients...things like eggs or gelatin or like my brother who is allergic to neomycin. The vaccine schedule does not even acknowledge that; instead, it assumes every child is the same. The interesting fact is these same pro-vax people will acknowledge that drugs cause side effects that differ from person to person. Vaccines are so safe that pro-vaxxers don't even acknowledge possible side effects and allergies to them.

Just out of curiosity, do you believe in Chiropractors & Homeopathy? If so, then you're in no position to refer to anything else as "snake-oil".

Have you ever been to a licenced Chiropractor? Have you been to a Naturopath? Have you ever injured your back or had sciatica?

So what you're saying is - let's give a vaccine to one set of kids, give a placebo to another set, and watch some of the non-vaccinated kids die while ticking them off on a clipboard. Kind of unethical - don't you think?

All this drama is pathetic. Watch all the non-vaccinated kids die? Are you serious? We do not live in a third world country. I know more people who are unvaccinated than I do who are vaccinated. No one is dying, and I don't see any epidemics either.

 

[Go Braves]

Kids playing in the playground are not being injected with those bacteria and germs. They are coming by them naturally. Therefore their bodies will be able to use their natural lines of defence to protect them. Vaccination bypasses that. There is no comparison.
Changing the schedule allows parents to discover if their child has any unknown allergies to vaccine ingredients...things like eggs or gelatin or like my brother who is allergic to neomycin. The vaccine schedule does not even acknowledge that; instead, it assumes every child is the same. The interesting fact is these same pro-vax people will acknowledge that drugs cause side effects that differ from person to person. Vaccines are so safe that pro-vaxxers don't even acknowledge possible side effects and allergies to them.



Have you ever been to a licenced Chiropractor? Have you been to a Naturopath? Have you ever injured your back or had sciatica?



All this drama is pathetic. Watch all the non-vaccinated kids die? Are you serious? We do not live in a third world country. I know more people who are unvaccinated than I do who are vaccinated. No one is dying, and I don't see any epidemics either.

Aren't you the lady who said she had awful painful shingles as a kid on account of having had chickenpox? Even though the chickenpox vaccine had been available when you were young? Kids who don't live in 3rd world countries still suffer needlessly. It's pathetic to just let that happen.

Unless you go around surveying all the folks you know or you just have an extremely limited number of acquaintances I find your claim that you know more people who are unvaccinated than not to be completely unbelievable.

 

[Saricharity]

I am not an anti-vaxxer. I even specified to avoid the spite that my children were vaccinated, but was met with an unreasonable attitude from people on this thread. People are blinded to assume that all concerns about vaccines relate to autism. A lot seem think that any open mindedness to the fact that vaccines aren't risk free makes one stupid.

I'm unwilling to talk more about vaccinations when the dialogue is not dialogue but quashing opinions without reading them properly.

One of the many things I have gleaned from this forum is that if you question vaccines in any way, you are ridiculed, defamed and called a troll. It is a tactic to shut people down and make them go away. Some here have made it a passion or mission to squish any open conversation that paints vaccination in a bad light.

 

[Paidiske]

I hope I never attack people personally over it, but I very strongly do believe that opposing vaccines puts lives at risk. And I think many of us who see it that way feel that we have a responsibility to try to persuade people to take that risk seriously.

 

[Saricharity]

Aren't you the lady who said she had awful painful shingles as a kid on account of having had chickenpox? Even though the chickenpox vaccine had been available when you were young? Kids who don't live in 3rd world countries still suffer needlessly. It's pathetic to just let that happen.

Unless you go around surveying all the folks you know or you just have an extremely limited number of acquaintances I find your claim that you know more people who are unvaccinated than not to be completely unbelievable.

No, it was not part of the childhood vaccine schedule when I was younger.
Even if it had been, my parents wouldn't have allowed me to receive it. Shingles were terrible, but people who get the vaccine are still susceptible to shingles.

What you chose to believe or not to believe is your business. I stand by what I said.

 

[Saricharity]

I hope I never attack people personally over it, but I very strongly do believe that opposing vaccines puts lives at risk. And I think many of us who see it that way feel that we have a responsibility to try to persuade people to take that risk seriously.

I commend people who persuade others to inform themselves.

 

[Go Braves]

No, it was not part of the childhood vaccine schedule when I was younger.

It's been available in Canada & US since the 90s. Seeing as how I've seen your posts in the kids section I thought you were on the younger side.

Even if it had been, my parents wouldn't have allowed me to receive it. Shingles were terrible, but people who get the vaccine are still susceptible to shingles.

A knowledgeable gal here, Sarah, had explained to you how that's like worrying about an old dog without a lower jaw biting you, lol.

Now maybe you were just in agony for a month or so with shingles. Folks who've gotten shingles in their eyes have had lasting damage.

What you chose to believe or not to believe is your business. I stand by what I said.

As do I. Why would anyone with sense believe that? Do you go around asking folks if they're vaccinated? Even if you did there's probably a bunch of folks who got vaccinated when they were so little they've plumb forgotten all about it by now. Even in the areas of Canada where the vaccination levels are low the overwhelming majority of the population are still vaccinated. The only way that I'd find it believable for somebody to know more who are unvaccinated than not is if they belonged to a cult or some other group that kept separated from society or they led some other very secluded life. You did say you'd been homeschooled but I'm assuming you've spent some time integrating with other folks outside of that so yeah.

 

[Go Braves]

I commend people who persuade others to inform themselves.

I commend those who persuade others to inform themselves with actual knowledge, not Facebook posts or Vaxxed.

 

[Saricharity]

That's the political tactic today, promoted by some elements (antifa, for example). Silence others by any means possible. Use pre-scripted talking points, and demeaning imaginary labels (homophobe comes to mind, for example....who on earth is afraid of gay people? That would be...pretty much nobody. No one quakes in fear at the sight of a gay person (assuming you can even tell who they are) the way some might at say, the sight of a rabid racoon or pit bull or or something actually scary.

Here, the tactic by a few on this train....lump everyone who isn't lining up to get the latest vaccine into some "anti-vaxxer" group (regardless of their actual status, which could be having completed a few, some, or nearly all vaccines) and then call for their indoctrination or exclusion or even imprisonment (as some have done in the media). Some call for violation of the bodily integrity of others by any means possible. This is scary in its implications.

Some rationality would be nice. I know I'm dreaming, in this political environment.

I agree! Well said.

 

[Go Braves]

One of the many things I have gleaned from this forum is that if you question vaccines in any way, you are ridiculed, defamed and called a troll. It is a tactic to shut people down and make them go away. Some here have made it a passion or mission to squish any open conversation that paints vaccination in a bad light.

Here's the thing, when someone brags about how they've had access to a plethora of research on vaccinations but yet instead of showing any knowledge that would come from that they keep posting from places like the Vaxxed website they delegitimize themselves mighty quick.

 

[Saricharity]

It's been available in Canada & US since the 90s. Seeing as how I've seen your posts in the kids section I thought you were on the younger side.



A knowledgeable gal here, Sarah, had explained to you how that's like worrying about an old dog without a lower jaw biting you, lol.

Now maybe you were just in agony for a month or so with shingles. Folks who've gotten shingles in their eyes have had lasting damage.



As do I. Why would anyone with sense believe that? Do you go around asking folks if they're vaccinated? Even if you did there's probably a bunch of folks who got vaccinated when they were so little they've plumb forgotten all about it by now. Even in the areas of Canada where the vaccination levels are low the overwhelming majority of the population are still vaccinated. The only way that I'd find it believable for somebody to know more who are unvaccinated than not is if they belonged to a cult or some other group that kept separated from society or they led some other very secluded life. You did say you'd been homeschooled but I'm assuming you've spent some time integrating with other folks outside of that so yeah.

Available but not on the recommended schedule.

The fact still remains that the vaccinated can and do come down with shingles. I'm not denying that shingles are terrible. The elderly have suffered with them for decades. The fact that children are getting shingles now is concerning.
I stand by what I said. You can believe what you want. Your belittling comments do not change anything.

I commend those who persuade others to inform themselves with actual knowledge, not Facebook posts or Vaxxed.

Go for you.
I commend people who inform themselves by reading many reputable books on the topic. Maybe we aren't so different after all.

Btw have you watched Vaxxed or read J.B. Handley's new book or even the new book The HPV Vaccine on Trial? I surmise you haven't and aren't willing even to try to see the topic from another point of view.

 

[Saricharity]

Here's the thing, when someone brags about how they've had access to a plethora of research on vaccinations but yet instead of showing any knowledge that would come from that they keep posting from places like the Vaxxed website they delegitimize themselves mighty quick.

I do have access to a plethora of research. I am well read on the topic. I have taken the time to research both sides. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. As another has said, the onus of proof is not on me.
I also don't plan to debate with you any further since you wish to make this personal.
Have a wonderful evening.

 

[Go Braves]

Available but not on the recommended schedule.

It's been on the recommended schedule for a long time too.

The fact still remains that the vaccinated can and do come down with shingles. I'm not denying that shingles are terrible. The elderly have suffered with them for decades. The fact that children are getting shingles now is concerning.

The fact still remains it's like worrying about an old dog without a lower jaw biting you. Yes the elderly have suffered with them for decades & on account of that most are pretty dang happy that their grandchildren, great grandchildren, are going to be a whole lot less likely to suffer from them.

I stand by what I said. You can believe what you want. Your belittling comments do not change anything.

Back at you, including the part about belittling comments.

Go for you.
I commend people who inform themselves by reading many reputable books on the topic. Maybe we aren't so different after all.

As do I, but the thing is most folks who claim they've read many reputable books on a topic haven't; if they had, that would be evident from their knowledge. They're dilettantes.

Btw have you watched Vaxxed or read J.B. Handley's new book or even the new book The HPV Vaccine on Trial? I surmised you haven't and aren't willing even to try to see the topic from another point of view.

I've seen Vaxxed. Lulz. What are the book titles you've read to try to see the topic from another point of view? Or to just become educated on the topic?