GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

FredVB

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tall73 said:
Or is it your view that Abraham thought it was ok to offer children as a sin offereing to God?
He obviously thought it was OK or he would not have set out to do it.
You are saying he knew it was wrong--that is up to you to prove. And no, murdering someone in anger is not the same as a sacrifice to God. Sacrificing a human to God is wrong, but there is no indication that Abraham knew that. And you have shown not text that says it.
Your whole point is God commanded Abraham to do something Abraham knew was wrong. But you have presented no evidence on that point. Show the evidence, or you have no argument.

A sacrifice does not equal the same thing as a sin offering. Sin offerings I see are often assumed for sacrifice where it is not stated, and in a few cases a sacrifice is assumed where it is not stated. There weren't necessarily human sacrifices already, but if there were, these were certainly not sin offerings.

Abraham would have known, as we may know already before we come to be believers who have been brought to God, that it would be wrong to just choose to kill another human person, though he was not past killing in a war battle for the sake of those on his side, and he would kill animals. But he put faith in what Yahweh said over everything else. If Yahweh said he must kill someone, Yahweh, Creator of all, must have the reason and would be right, over anyone else, if they don't even see why. Abraham was justified with such faith in what Yahweh told him, that no one else will have such faith, that because of Yahweh's promises about Isaac, his son would just be resurrected again. It did not mean he did not agonize over it, as Christ agonized in the garden of Gethsemane before his great sufferings, for us, but Yahweh was put over everything. Abraham would not just choose such things, but he had the greatest faith of anyone in Yahweh, with what he did hear.

Pyong Ping said:
God is looking to deliver as many as will be delivered, but also to punish the wicked who refuse, and the probation of men to end, and the wrath of God to fully fall, and therefore, be not found among that number ... (2 groups in the city, the professing (True/Sheep/Wheat/Wise and False/Goats/Tares/Foolish), 1 group outside the city (already condemned, John 3:18); Revelation 9:13-15)

All the cities are coming to being under judgment, and those people who respond to come to God will have to choose to come out of cities, and flee to be independent from them, and doing so much sooner is better than staying yet to be involved with the sins there still (Revelation 16:19). The only city where all those who are not condemned will be is the camp of God, which will be where Christ is reigning, in Jerusalem, with the new Jerusalem ultimately which reaches from heaven down to earth on the greatest mountain ever being promised for that. It won't be like any city that could come to be from our civilization. It would be of perfection in its arrangement, without any sins ever done there.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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A sacrifice does not equal the same thing as a sin offering. Sin offerings I see are often assumed for sacrifice where it is not stated, and in a few cases a sacrifice is assumed where it is not stated. There weren't necessarily human sacrifices already, but if there were, these were certainly not sin offerings.

Abraham would have known, as we may know already before we come to be believers who have been brought to God, that it would be wrong to just choose to kill another human person, though he was not past killing in a war battle for the sake of those on his side, and he would kill animals. But he put faith in what Yahweh said over everything else. If Yahweh said he must kill someone, Yahweh, Creator of all, must have the reason and would be right, over anyone else, if they don't even see why. Abraham was justified with such faith in what Yahweh told him, that no one else will have such faith, that because of Yahweh's promises about Isaac, his son would just be resurrected again. It did not mean he did not agonize over it, as Christ agonized in the garden of Gethsemane before his great sufferings, for us, but Yahweh was put over everything. Abraham would not just choose such things, but he had the greatest faith of anyone in Yahweh, with what he did hear.



All the cities are coming to being under judgment, and those people who respond to come to God will have to choose to come out of cities, and flee to be independent from them, and doing so much sooner is better than staying yet to be involved with the sins there still (Revelation 16:19). The only city where all those who are not condemned will be is the camp of God, which will be where Christ is reigning, in Jerusalem, with the new Jerusalem ultimately which reaches from heaven down to earth on the greatest mountain ever being promised for that. It won't be like any city that could come to be from our civilization. It would be of perfection in its arrangement, without any sins ever done there.

Hi Fred, Sorry I think these people are not around at the moment.
 
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Saint Steven

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John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Hello Steve,

AMEN! However, if we are not following God's WORD are we believing it?

EPHESIANS 2:8
[8], For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Yep we are not saved by Works but works are the fruit of true faith. God has given us faith and grace for the fruit of obedience..

ROMANS 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

ROMANS 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

God's LAW is establsihed through faith..

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

the devils believe but will be lost because they do not follow God's WORD.

JAMES 2:18-20
[18], Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
[19], You believe that there is one God; you do well: the demons also believe, and tremble.
[20], But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[26], For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Suggest you also read all of HEBREWS 11.

1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The great standard in God's judgment will be the 10 Commandments. God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. If we KNOWINGLY CONTINUE breaking any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11 and need to seek Jesus for forgiveness through confession, repentance and faith *PROVERBS 28:13; 1 JOHN 1:9; ACTS 2:38; JOHN 6:47.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we KNOWINGLY CONTINUE breaking any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11 where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
 
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FredVB

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LoveGodsWord said:
If God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we KNOWINGLY CONTINUE breaking any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11 where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
Exodus 16:23
Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Exodus 31:14-15
Keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you.
The seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to Yahweh

It was revealed clearly that Yahweh made the seventh day holy, and the Sabbath is holy, this would mean that it does not depend on what we do or whether we neglect it, it is holy to God, and so it remains holy, it is for us to remember that, it is a day to focus on coming to God. No later scriptures negated this. Certainly the first day (Sunday) is not made by God to be the Sabbath in place of the seventh day.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Exodus 16:23
Yahweh made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Yahweh blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Exodus 31:14-15
Keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you.
The seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to Yahweh

It was revealed clearly that Yahweh made the seventh day holy, and the Sabbath is holy, this would mean that it does not depend on what we do or whether we neglect it, it is holy to God, and so it remains holy, it is for us to remember that, it is a day to focus on coming to God. No later scriptures negated this. Certainly the first day (Sunday) is not made by God to be the Sabbath in place of the seventh day.

Good post Fred for which I also agree. If I was able to rate your post here I would add a winner to it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
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If God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we KNOWINGLY CONTINUE breaking any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:8-11 where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify.
 
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Saint Steven

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The Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, said, "You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we (The Roman Catholic Church) never sanctify.
Define "the Lord’s Day". (early church writings are helpful in this regard)
I'm surprised that Cardinal Gibbons didn't know any better.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
 
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Saint Steven

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I don't believe that this day has yet come.
The words "was" and "heard" are past tense.
Anyway, early church writings define "the Lord's Day" as the day on which our Lord was raised from the dead, the first day of the week, the day of Christian gathering, the Queen of days, the eighth day, Sunday. (from memory)

Saint Steven said:
Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
 
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Saint Steven

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From Wikipedia

The Lord's Day
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Lord's Day in Christianity is generally Sunday, the principal day of communal worship. It is observed by most Christians as the weekly memorial of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is said in the canonical Gospels to have been witnessed alive from the dead early on the first day of the week. The phrase appears in Rev. 1:10.

According to some sources, Christians held corporate worship on Sunday in the 1st century.[1] An early example of Christians meeting together on a Sunday for the purpose of "breaking bread" and preaching is cited in the New Testament book of Acts (Acts 20:7). 2nd-century writers such as Justin Martyr attest to the widespread practice of Sunday worship (First Apology, chapter 67), and by 361 AD it had become a mandated weekly occurrence. During the Middle Ages, Sunday worship became associated with Sabbatarian (rest) practices. Some Protestants today (particularly those theologically descended from the Puritans) regard Sunday as Christian Sabbath, a practice known as first-day Sabbatarianism. (Some Christian groups hold that the term "Lord's Day" can only properly refer to seventh-day Sabbath or Saturday.)

Sunday was also known in patristic writings as the eighth day.

Ambiguous references
The term "Lord's" appears in The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles or Didache, a document dated between 70 and 120. Didache 14:1a is translated by Roberts as, "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving";[5] another translation begins, "On the Lord's own day". The first clause in Greek, "κατά κυριακήν δέ κυρίου", literally means "On the Lord's of the Lord",[6] a unique and unexplained double possessive, and translators supply the elided noun, e.g., "day" (ἡμέρα hemera), "commandment" (from the immediately prior verse 13:7), or "doctrine".[7][8] This is one of two early extrabiblical Christian uses of "κυριακήν" where it does not clearly refer to Sunday because textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. Breaking bread (daily or weekly) may refer to Christian fellowship, agape feasts, or Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42, 20:7). Didache 14 was apparently understood by the writers of the Didascalia and Apostolic Constitutions as a reference to Sunday worship.

Around 110 AD, St. Ignatius of Antioch used "Lord's" in a passage of his letter to the Magnesians. Ambiguity arises due to textual variants. The only extant Greek manuscript of the letter, the Codex Mediceo-Laurentianus, reads, "If, then, those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbath, but living according to the Lord's life ..." (kata kyriaken zoen zontes). A medieval Latin translation indicates an alternate textual reading of kata kyriaken zontes, informing Roberts's translation, "no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's [Day]".[9]

The expanded Pseudo-Ignatian version of Magnesians, from the middle of the third century, rewrites this passage to make "Lord's Day" a clear reference to Sunday, as Resurrection Day. Pseudo-Ignatius adds a repudiation of legalistic Sabbath as a Judaizing error: "Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness .... But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days."[10] Other early church fathers similarly saw weekly observance of seventh-day Sabbath sometimes followed the next day by Lord's Day assembly.[11][12]

Undisputed references
The first undisputed reference to Lord's Day is in the apocryphal Gospel of Peter (verse 34,35 and 50[13]), probably written about the middle of the 2nd century or perhaps the first half of that century. The Gospel of Peter 35 and 50 use kyriake as the name for the first day of the week, the day of Jesus' resurrection. That the author referred to Lord's Day in an apocryphal gospel purportedly written by St. Peter indicates that the term kyriake was very widespread and had been in use for some time.

Around 170 AD, Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth, wrote to the Roman Church, "Today we have kept the Lord's holy day (kyriake hagia hemera), on which we have read your letter." In the latter half of the 2nd century, the apocryphal Acts of Peter identify Dies Domini (Latin for "Lord's Day") as "the next day after the Sabbath," i.e., Sunday. From the same period of time, the Acts of Paul present St. Paul praying "on the Sabbath as the Lord's Day (kyriake) drew near." However, the Lord's day is identified with the Sabbath in the Acts of John as "on the seventh day, it being the Lord's day, he said to them: now it is time for me also to partake of food."[14]
 
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The words "was" and "heard" are past tense.
Anyway, early church writings define "the Lord's Day" as the day on which our Lord was raised from the dead, the first day of the week, the day of Christian gathering, the Queen of days, the eighth day, Sunday. (from memory)

Saint Steven said:
Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

I'm not a preterist.
 
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Saint Steven

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I'm not a preterist.
That's lame.
This has nothing to do with Preterism.
It has to do with your erroneous and misleading Cardinal Gibbons quote.

Saint Steven said:
The words "was" and "heard" are past tense.
Anyway, early church writings define "the Lord's Day" as the day on which our Lord was raised from the dead, the first day of the week, the day of Christian gathering, the Queen of days, the eighth day, Sunday. (from memory)

Saint Steven said:
Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
 
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That's lame.
This has nothing to do with Preterism.
It has to do with your erroneous and misleading Cardinal Gibbons quote.

Saint Steven said:
The words "was" and "heard" are past tense.
Anyway, early church writings define "the Lord's Day" as the day on which our Lord was raised from the dead, the first day of the week, the day of Christian gathering, the Queen of days, the eighth day, Sunday. (from memory)

Saint Steven said:
Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

So what are you saying? In your opinion, has Revelation 1:10 come to pass, or not?
 
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Saint Steven

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So what are you saying? In your opinion, has Revelation 1:10 come to pass, or not?
It's not a prophecy, it's a testimony of what happened to him that day.

Your Cardinal Gibbons quote was misleading because here we have the testimony of the Apostle John saying he was worshiping (in the Spirit) on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week). The writings of the early church define the Lord's Day as Sunday, not Saturday.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It's not a prophecy, it's a testimony of what happened to him that day.

Your Cardinal Gibbons quote was misleading because here we have the testimony of the Apostle John saying he was worshiping (in the Spirit) on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week). The writings of the early church define the Lord's Day as Sunday, not Saturday.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

There is nothing in scripture anywhere that says "the Lords day" is the first day of the week. This is a teaching and tradition of men handed down from the Roman Catholic Church. There is a discussion here if your interested..THE LORD'S DAY CONTROVERSY

People have to look outside of scripture to claim that "the Lords day" is Sunday when the scriptures alone teach that the Sabbath is the Lord's Day.

Your better off asking God and seeking answers through his Word in my opinion. If your asking what day is "the Lords Day" you will get the answer from the scriptures in the very Words of JESUS here...

MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY.

For me personally, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Sunday is simply a man made teaching and tradition that has led many to break the commandments of God that I believe JESUS warns us about in MATTHEW 15:2-9

Hope this is helpful.
 
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It's not a prophecy, it's a testimony of what happened to him that day.

Your Cardinal Gibbons quote was misleading because here we have the testimony of the Apostle John saying he was worshiping (in the Spirit) on the Lord's Day (the first day of the week). The writings of the early church define the Lord's Day as Sunday, not Saturday.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

I see. I went and read that passage; and you are correct. I was what happened to him at that time. I wouldn't say in that day; because he called it the Lord's day. He didn't really define what that meant. He said nothing about the first day of the week. that might have come from the Catholic church; and we've already covered that aspect of this mysterious term.

By the way. You've presented a mistranslation. It;s "in" the lord's day, not "on."

I'll leave you with some more Catholic quotes to ponder.

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

Martin J. Scott- Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927) "Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

Peter R. Kraemer- Catholic Church Extension Society (1975), Chicago, Illinois. "Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man."2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws. "It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."
 
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I see. I went and read that passage; and you are correct. I was what happened to him at that time. I wouldn't say in that day; because he called it the Lord's day. He didn't really define what that meant. He said nothing about the first day of the week. that might have come from the Catholic church; and we've already covered that aspect of this mysterious term.

By the way. You've presented a mistranslation. It;s "in" the lord's day, not "on."

I'll leave you with some more Catholic quotes to ponder.

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Third Edition"1). Question: Which is the Sabbath day? "Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. 2). "Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"Answer. "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

Martin J. Scott- Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927) "Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

Peter R. Kraemer- Catholic Church Extension Society (1975), Chicago, Illinois. "Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man."2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws. "It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."

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