The Social Conservatives Safe House (4)

[Rion]

https://archive.is/p7gj0

One or more editorial writers at the NY Times, the folks who speak with the paper’s voice of authority on every subject you can imagine, will plead with a judge to believe they did not know the basic facts of a story they were writing about, including facts reported in their own paper! The Times’ defense is: We so dumb.
Either the author of this piece was a malicious liar or he/she is too ill-informed to be writing editorials for a newspaper. Either way, it looks pretty bad for the NY Times and quite possibly for the future employment of the author(s). It also makes one wonder what other things the NY Times editorial board opines about without a complete familiarity with the facts.

 

[Newtheran]

Christian liberals weaken my faith.

That would appear to be the case.

I cannot wrap my mind around how a person who subscribes to the teachings of the Bible and Jesus can support a political party which openly seeks to destroy the morals and values espoused by traditional Christian viewpoints.

They choose to go to churches that do the same thing, that's why.

Witnessing someone who claims to love Jesus rant against conservative Christian values makes me question how they can be reading the same Bible or worshipping the same God as me.

In a very real sense they don't. Many of them belong to traditions that cherry pick what they want to believe ourside the four gospels or are only "red letter" believers which reject everything else.

Now don't misunderstand what I'm saying. This doesn't make all Republicans righteous by any means. But by definition, subscribing to the value system of a political party that endorses homosexuality, transgenderism, baby murder, Hijrah, and communism...well it really makes one wonder, doesn't it.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Christian liberals weaken my faith.

And I don't know what forum to discuss that issue in. I don't want to debate that fact or get attacked for that fact. It's just something that has happened since I joined this site.

I cannot wrap my mind around how a person who subscribes to the teachings of the Bible and Jesus can support a political party which openly seeks to destroy the morals and values espoused by traditional Christian viewpoints.

Witnessing someone who claims to love Jesus rant against conservative Christian values makes me question how they can be reading the same Bible or worshipping the same God as me. If Christianity does not change the hearts of so many people on here to embrace conservatism, then is it real? How can someone read Galatians 5:19-24 and interpret it as meaning that everything that Hollywood and the democratic party stands for is acceptable in the eyes of God??? "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Just by being honest and saying that statement, I break all sorts of rules in most forums for flaming, questioning other's faith, and saying mean things.

I'm just frustrated and disheartened.

I think we should remember that America only has two viable political parties. Which is a good thing, in my opinion.

But the end result of it is that people have to choose what matters most. I'm socially conservative but left-of-center on economics. The social conservative side wins so I tend to vote Republican to protect the unborn.

But liberal Christians strike me as being a bit more pragmatic. I'm not excusing them; merely acknowledging that the issues which seem to animate them (eg, caring for the poor) are more readily apparent in the Democrat Party's recent history than in the GOP's recent history. They might be pro-life on some level but I wonder if the bigger issue isn't caring for the less fortunate.

Again, not defending them. Just offering an observation.

 

[straykat]

I think we should remember that America only has two viable political parties. Which is a good thing, in my opinion.

But the end result of it is that people have to choose what matters most. I'm socially conservative but left-of-center on economics. The social conservative side wins so I tend to vote Republican to protect the unborn.

But liberal Christians strike me as being a bit more pragmatic. I'm not excusing them; merely acknowledging that the issues which seem to animate them (eg, caring for the poor) are more readily apparent in the Democrat Party's recent history than in the GOP's recent history. They might be pro-life on some level but I wonder if the bigger issue isn't caring for the less fortunate.

Again, not defending them. Just offering an observation.

The democrats want to keep people poor. Not help them. If not for abortion, blacks wouldn't even be a minority. They're kept down just enough to be agitated, but not enough to build prosperous communities or have bargaining power or a noticable presence in daily life. And once they give Democrats their vote, they're ignored, with communities remaining in disrepair... until the next time Dems need their vote. Rinse, repeat.

2 out of 3 black children are killed by abortion - numbering it around 15 million since Roe v Wade. Making it over 50% of all abortions in total, and up to 75% in all big cities (like NYC, Chicago, Seattle, etc). Some of whom would have their own families by now as well... so count that too.

 

[redleghunter]

How about that speech from Collins today?

 

[Hammster]

How about that speech from Collins today?

I didn’t listen to all of it. But I listened to enough to know where she was going.

And she has credibility since she didn’t go partisan on Obama’s picks.

 

[Mech Guy]

What a week. Taking a moment to reflect on DNC voter fraud (widespread of course, not just one state), the fact that so many Americans are completely lost, the 600+ acts of violence that liberals have recently committed against conservatives.....and reflecting on how awesome DJT is.

 

[Truthfrees]

What a week. Taking a moment to reflect on DNC voter fraud (widespread of course, not just one state), the fact that so many Americans are completely lost, the 600+ acts of violence that liberals have recently committed against conservatives.....and reflecting on how awesome DJT is.

amen - accurate assessment

 

[Newtheran]

. I'm socially conservative but left-of-center on economics. The social conservative side wins so I tend to vote Republican to protect the unborn.

But liberal Christians strike me as being a bit more pragmatic. I'm not excusing them; merely acknowledging that the issues which seem to animate them (eg, caring for the poor) are more readily apparent in the Democrat Party's recent history than in the GOP's recent history.

First, it is the responsibility of all Christians to care for widows, orphans and the disabled. HOWEVER. The charge that Jesus gave us is for us to do that as individuals and corporately as a church body for His glory. He in no way imagined a scenario where Caesar would redistribute assets at spear point for Caesars glory and call such a system Christian.

This falsehood is at the heart of the religious right/religious left divide. It is not that the GOP is the party of Christian morality while the Dems are the party of Christian charity. It is that the GOP has taken a stance which will permit American Christians to be who their are and continue to exercise the Great Commission that Jesus gave us while the Dems have taken the stance that they will end us.

Which makes sense in some way because gods - not just the Lord - are jealous and theirs is government.

 

[Verv]

I haven't posted here in forever and it was quite awesome to see that this thread (series) is still up.

This will be my first time posting here being actually & truly hopeful about the future of social conservatism in America and abroad.

 

[VCR-2000]

I want to ask a question.

Why is it so rare to see a non-Christian agree on or sympathize with social conservatism?

I'm more libertarian because I still believe that individualism is more important than social conservatism sometimes, even though I sympathize that the fall of society is more-less correlated with ultra-liberalism.

Why can't social conservatism be explained in a secular way?

 

[Redac]

I want to ask a question.

Why is it so rare to see a non-Christian agree on or sympathize with social conservatism?

I'm more libertarian because I still believe that individualism is more important than social conservatism sometimes, even though I sympathize that the fall of society is more-less correlated with ultra-liberalism.

There are a number of reasons these two things (atheism and social liberalism) tend to coincide, and a full discussion of why that is would take quite a bit of time. But, to sum up one of the main reasons, it's partly because liberalism and atheism are often the product of similar principles and patterns of thought, namely rationalism, rejection of tradition and traditional authority, and so on.

Perhaps on a less intellectual level, you'll often see people who end up rejecting a religion subsequently rejecting many of that religion's social mores just because they're associated with religion in the first place.

Why can't social conservatism be explained in a secular way?

It can be.

 

[VCR-2000]

There are a number of reasons these two things (atheism and social liberalism) tend to coincide, and a full discussion of why that is would take quite a bit of time. But, to sum up one of the main reasons, it's partly because liberalism and atheism are often the product of similar principles and patterns of thought, namely rationalism, rejection of tradition and traditional authority, and so on.

Perhaps on a less intellectual level, you'll often see people who end up rejecting a religion subsequently rejecting many of that religion's social mores just because they're associated with religion in the first place.

I understand the greater tendency for the two to coincide, but I want to figure out if I'm the only one, especially on this forum. I know that non-Christian and conservative or even indifferent meets much hostility itself.

 

[Newtheran]

VCR,

That is an excellent question. Really, most of the disagreements today come down to a question of who we are as a species. Christianity teaches that we are a created, fallen species. Secularism of every stripe - be it libertarianism or progressivism - tends to teach that man is inherently good.evolved.and is capable of evolving further.

This disagreement about human nature is at the root of disagreement about social conservatism. Christianity sees social conservatism as adherence to a divinely revealed moral standard for a fallen species. Progressivism rejects it and seeks to invent a better way. Christianity teaches we are incapable of inventing a better way.

 

[Redac]

I understand the greater tendency for the two to coincide, but I want to figure out if I'm the only one, especially on this forum. I know that non-Christian and conservative or even indifferent meets much hostility itself.

I'm non-Christian and still espouse generally socially conservative views.

 

[VCR-2000]

I'm non-Christian and still espouse generally socially conservative views.

I get depressed that conservatism doesn't look like it has a future in the culture and society, I wish things have at least gone back to a little bit of tradition in my lifetime so far. But no, it has to continue marching in the one same way it always has. That's my honest take on what I feel.

 

[Knee V]

I get depressed that conservatism doesn't look like it has a future in the culture and society.

On the contrary, conservatism (lowercase "c") and traditionalism are precisely what have a future, to the ultimate exclusion of the alternative. Broadly speaking, conservatism is a living organism, while various forms of secularism are sterile and self-consuming cancers. People with a conservative and traditional outlook on life, despite their various differences, have families and perpetuate themselves, even if they sometimes fall into dark times. Others do not, and they simply underbreed themselves into irrelevance. That is exactly what is happening as we speak.

 

[VCR-2000]

On the contrary, conservatism (lowercase "c") and traditionalism are precisely what have a future, to the ultimate exclusion of the alternative. Broadly speaking, conservatism is a living organism, while various forms of secularism are sterile and self-consuming cancers. People with a conservative and traditional outlook on life, despite their various differences, have families and perpetuate themselves, even if they sometimes fall into dark times. Others do not, and they simply underbreed themselves into irrelevance. That is exactly what is happening as we speak.

Granted, I won't say I'm either conservative or liberal, even though I'm drawn more to one than the other sometimes.

 

[VCR-2000]

On the contrary, conservatism (lowercase "c") and traditionalism are precisely what have a future, to the ultimate exclusion of the alternative. Broadly speaking, conservatism is a living organism, while various forms of secularism are sterile and self-consuming cancers. People with a conservative and traditional outlook on life, despite their various differences, have families and perpetuate themselves, even if they sometimes fall into dark times. Others do not, and they simply underbreed themselves into irrelevance. That is exactly what is happening as we speak.

On the other hand, I hear a lot of warning that we are heading for very dark times. I read before that there is an ultimate agenda to fight and kill all conservatives or anybody else that doesn't agree with what the left has lately. They have had subtleness and cunningness on their side. Why doesn't our side? Right, because Christianity only enforces us to be disciplined and play by the rules...

Saying to pray about it is also useless, praying for even your own family member wouldn't change the pre-determined outcome of whatever your praying about. It's the stuff of doctrine and almost brainwashing that those who believe it don't want to stop shoving it down our throats.

 

[Newtheran]

On the other hand, I hear a lot of warning that we are heading for very dark times. I read before that there is an ultimate agenda to fight and kill all conservatives or anybody else that doesn't agree with what the left has lately. They have had subtleness and cunningness on their side. Why doesn't our side? Right, because Christianity only enforces us to be disciplined and play by the rules...

Don't forget that we own most of the guns.